ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[CardiffKid]

Photos: www.twitter.com/philatrail

 

[ainsworth74]

Okay, I think it's time for a slight change for this thread. The arguments about whether or not ScotRail should have chosen HSTs and whether or not the whole programme is a farce or not can now be found in their own thread here. This thread is only to be used for discussion about the trains themselves. I.e. the progress of the refurbishment (which vehicles, how many sets, etc are complete), what the latest dates are for their introduction, question about the interior or technical aspects of the refurbishment and any other miscellaneous updates, questions, pictures or videos.

Anything related to whether they were the right choice for ScotRail, whether HSTs and Mk3s in general are the greatest gift to mankind ever or the transport of choice for the devil should be confined to the new thread. It is off-topic in this thread and will be deleted as such.

Hopefully this will mean that those that are just interested in talking about the trains themselves and the the progress will be able to avoid those that would go around in circles discussion decisions that were made many years ago.

 

[fgwrich]

Thank you Ainsworth!

Photos: www.twitter.com/philatrail

Thanks for sharing that, the legroom looks great. Nice to see that ScotRail has managed to keep the seats lined up with the windows as well. I think that'll be a great benefit to tourists travelling up through Drumochter pass and along the Fife Coast. I rather like the touch of humour with the Catering Store sticker as well.

With the second and third GWR set's due to be released soon, I wonder how far we are off seeing the next ScotRail sets released?

 

[connormill]

Very good to finally see the interior in some details, especially now it has the "right type" of carpet.

Leg room looks great, as it usually is for SR.

I often get the last train home from Aberdeen to Edinburgh on a Sunday with is a XC Voyager with awful legroom and not enough table seats. I'd take a 170 over that any day!

 

[Journeyman]

Thanks for sharing that, the legroom looks great. Nice to see that ScotRail has managed to keep the seats lined up with the windows as well. I think that'll be a great benefit to tourists travelling up through Drumochter pass and along the Fife Coast. I rather like the touch of humour with the Catering Store sticker as well.

It certainly looks decent, I'm pleased to see a good table/airline mix (I like airline seats when I'm travelling alone). Personally I think the sticker smacks of the sort of thing Virgin is convinced is funny, and I can do without stuff like that, but I suppose it'll raise a smile or two. Just as long as they haven't opted for talking toilets...

Note comment about bouncy ride.

 

[sprinterguy]

I thought there were going to be two 2+6 sets once the full fleet was rolled out?

From December 2022 according to the franchise agreement.

On a separate note, some might be interested to know that the micro-buffet vehicles in the refurbished sets (Converted from First Opens) are being numbered in the 406xx series, starting with 40601 in the one extant set so far, renumbered from FO 41032. Unlike the GWR sets, the Trailer Standards are remaining numbered in the 42xxx series.

 

[fgwrich]

It certainly looks decent, I'm pleased to see a good table/airline mix (I like airline seats when I'm travelling alone). Personally I think the sticker smacks of the sort of thing Virgin is convinced is funny, and I can do without stuff like that, but I suppose it'll raise a smile or two. Just as long as they haven't opted for talking toilets...

Note comment about bouncy ride.

Noted, but I wonder how much of the bouncy ride is track related though and what can be fixed from that - do other stock running along that section of the line ride as bouncy? A good test of the HST ride quality for me was always the HSTs on diverts along the SWML. There's a section of track between Grateley and Salisbury where the 159s rode hideously bad for a number of years (recently now replaced with CWR). The HST sets ran beautifully smoothly along this section. Anyway, I'm risking drifting off topic to the other one again.

I can understand where your coming from regarding Virgin. The talking toilets are a little odd, and the stickers can seem somewhat cheesy, but as long as ScotRail keep the humour to one or two little things like this I think it's fine.

I wonder how the First Class options are being received. The menu does look very good and will certainly be a considerable step up from the limited trolley offerings. I just wish the GWR sets retained a mini buffet aswell but that's for a different thread. Awaiting tonights media reports with interest!

On a side note, it was nice to see a picture on Facebook last night with 3 sets in Aberdeen Clayhills. The 2+6 set was there, along with the "Launch Set" and a training 2+4 set.

 

[JohnR]

Does anyone have details of which services the HST set will be running between Edinburgh and Aberdeen next week?

 

[Ginaro]

https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1050010286520979458 - explains why it's been showing as approaching Ladybank on RTT for a while http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/M19569/2018/10/10/advanced

 

[chuff chuff]

Set's failed apprentice.

 

[northernbelle]

Noted, but I wonder how much of the bouncy ride is track related though and what can be fixed from that - do other stock running along that section of the line ride as bouncy? A good test of the HST ride quality for me was always the HSTs on diverts along the SWML. There's a section of track between Grateley and Salisbury where the 159s rode hideously bad for a number of years (recently now replaced with CWR). The HST sets ran beautifully smoothly along this section. Anyway, I'm risking drifting off topic to the other one again.

I can understand where your coming from regarding Virgin. The talking toilets are a little odd, and the stickers can seem somewhat cheesy, but as long as ScotRail keep the humour to one or two little things like this I think it's fine.

I wonder how the First Class options are being received. The menu does look very good and will certainly be a considerable step up from the limited trolley offerings. I just wish the GWR sets retained a mini buffet aswell but that's for a different thread. Awaiting tonights media reports with interest!

On a side note, it was nice to see a picture on Facebook last night with 3 sets in Aberdeen Clayhills. The 2+6 set was there, along with the "Launch Set" and a training 2+4 set.

As a user of HSTs for many years, I can attest to their lively ride characteristics at higher speeds. While they are smoother than a lot of modern stock at mid-range speeds, they are prone to continual bounce and wallow at anything more than about 80mph.

It looks like a smart refurbishment and a shame the "launch" train has run into difficulties like it's newly-built brethren. It'll be interesting to see if this minor first hiccup breeds the same instant intolerance by enthusiasts seen on GWR IET launch day last October.

 

[sprinterguy]

https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1050010286520979458 - explains why it's been showing as approaching Ladybank on RTT for a while http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/M19569/2018/10/10/advanced

Oh dear, certainly not the most promising of starts for Scotrail's "refurbished" power cars on the couple of occasions that they've been used in anger, given that 43163 also failed at Edinburgh while on hire to LNER a little while ago.

Given that I get the impression that Scotrail have refurbished power cars, if not carriage rakes, coming out of their ears at present, it seems unfortunate that the leading one should encounter a problem during a high profile launch event. At least it seems to be on the move again now.

This has affected the normal service timetable, with 1B28 11:34 Inverurie - Edinburgh (38 minutes late) and 1L54 13:33 Dundee - Edinburgh (28 minutes late) caught up in its wake as a result.

 

[chuff chuff]

Refurbished power cars only got a some paint and sticky back plastic.

 

[sprinterguy]

Refurbished power cars only got a some paint and sticky back plastic.

Yeah, perhaps "repainted" would have been more accurate in my post, as I'm not personally aware how much or little Brush have done with them at Loughborough I decided to err on the side of caution.

 

[Journeyman]

I wonder how the First Class options are being received. The menu does look very good and will certainly be a considerable step up from the limited trolley offerings. I just wish the GWR sets retained a mini buffet aswell but that's for a different thread. Awaiting tonights media reports with interest!

Is there a menu online? I'd certainly like a look if there is. ScotRail's first class offering up until now has been lousy, and I must say an upgraded service with decent food is an attractive prospect.

 

[fgwrich]

Is there a menu online? I'd certainly like a look if there is. ScotRail's first class offering up until now has been lousy, and I must say an upgraded service with decent food is an attractive prospect.

The full menu hasn’t been released into the public domain yet, but the launch set menu looks like this (photo by Patrick McLennan) which will give you a good indication of what is being planned. Add in things like a proper coffee machine along with a usual buffet level of supplies and you’ll have something akin to that provided on the GWR Mini Buffets (as they are both around the same size).

First Class layout is looking good as well, as this tweet from MSP Liam Kerr shows.

https://twitter.com/liamkerrmsp/status/1049978951827935232?s=21

All in all, yes the introduction has had its issues (and yes, including unfortunately today), but give them some time to settle in and I reckon the services provided by the HSTs will be liked. If I were a regular passenger on ScotRail I’d be looking to upgrade to that ex GWR first class fairly quickly!

 

[Journeyman]

The full menu hasn’t been released into the public domain yet, but the launch set menu looks like this (photo by Patrick McLennan) which will give you a good indication of what is being planned. Add in things like a proper coffee machine along with a usual buffet level of supplies and you’ll have something akin to that provided on the GWR Mini Buffets (as they are both around the same size).

First Class layout is looking good as well, as this tweet from MSP Liam Kerr shows.

https://twitter.com/liamkerrmsp/status/1049978951827935232?s=21

All in all, yes the introduction has had its issues (and yes, including unfortunately today), but give them some time to settle in and I reckon the services provided by the HSTs will be liked. If I were a regular passenger on ScotRail I’d be looking to upgrade to that ex GWR first class fairly quickly!

Have to agree, it does look pretty appealing - I hope ScotRail use this as an opportunity to introduce a decent range of advance fares. That said, a walk-up first class single from Edinburgh to Inverness is £66 - at the moment I'd say that's pretty steep for what you get in a 170, but with the improved comfort it looks a better proposition.

Is the food free to first class passengers?

 

[najaB]

A certain irony that the refurbished set has been sitting in the sidings for a long time where its unrefurbished colleagues have been raking up the miles. And it's the favoured child that threw the tantrum. Other than the set that sat down between Stirling and Larbert (I think it was?) have their been any other training set failures?

 

[Highlandspring]

The refurbished set has had further problems in the Waverley and will now run off to Haymarket depot. So that’s that then!

 

[jingsmonty]

Okay, I think it's time for a slight change for this thread. The arguments about whether or not ScotRail should have chosen HSTs and whether or not the whole programme is a farce or not can now be found in their own thread here. This thread is only to be used for discussion about the trains themselves. I.e. the progress of the refurbishment (which vehicles, how many sets, etc are complete), what the latest dates are for their introduction, question about the interior or technical aspects of the refurbishment and any other miscellaneous updates, questions, pictures or videos.

Anything related to whether they were the right choice for ScotRail, whether HSTs and Mk3s in general are the greatest gift to mankind ever or the transport of choice for the devil should be confined to the new thread. It is off-topic in this thread and will be deleted as such.

Hopefully this will mean that those that are just interested in talking about the trains themselves and the the progress will be able to avoid those that would go around in circles discussion decisions that were made many years ago.

Thank you, moderator - glad you've stepped in!

 

[chuff chuff]

Horn/air leak.

 

[najaB]

The refurbished set has had further problems in the Waverley and will now run off to Haymarket depot. So that’s that then!

Are early indications that the fault was with the power car (and so could have happened to any set) or specifically related to the refurbished carriages?

Horn/air leak.

Answered as I was typing!

 

[MatthewJ18]

Leg room looks great, as it usually is for SR.

I disagree with that, legroom looks quite tight as it is on the refurbished 158's. But I will refrain from that judgement until I travel on one myself right enough.

 

[SC43090]

Does anyone have details of which services the HST set will be running between Edinburgh and Aberdeen next week?

I understand the following will be HST operated from Monday 15th October 2018

1B18 0907 Aberdeen Edinburgh

1A65 1330 Edinburgh Aberdeen

2A64 1619 Aberdeen Dyce

1B43 1639 Dyce Edinburgh

1A97 2143 Edinburgh Aberdeen

SC43090

 

[chuff chuff]

I understand the following will be HST operated from Monday 15th October 2018

1B18 0907 Aberdeen Edinburgh

1A65 1330 Edinburgh Aberdeen

2A64 1619 Aberdeen Dyce

1B43 1639 Dyce Edinburgh

1A97 2143 Edinburgh Aberdeen

SC43090

All going well that is.

 

[fgwrich]

Have to agree, it does look pretty appealing - I hope ScotRail use this as an opportunity to introduce a decent range of advance fares. That said, a walk-up first class single from Edinburgh to Inverness is £66 - at the moment I'd say that's pretty steep for what you get in a 170, but with the improved comfort it looks a better proposition.

Is the food free to first class passengers?

Can’t answer that question I’m afraid, but I’m sure there will be certain extra enhancements for First Class passengers.

Buffet counter / car does look good though. And despite the hiccup, impressions on Twitter do seem positive so far.

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

Are the sets going to have printed destinations + calling point labels in the windows?

 

[Highlandspring]

Are the sets going to have printed destinations + calling point labels in the windows?

Yes they will.

 

[jingsmonty]

I disagree with that, legroom looks quite tight as it is on the refurbished 158's. But I will refrain from that judgement until I travel on one myself right enough.

Honestly, the legroom is fine, even on the 'high density' ex GWR unrefurbished stock (still more room than a refurbished 158) - I've tried it out on the training train (I'm relatively tall too).

 

[jingsmonty]

Yes they will.

Can't help thinking that spending a little more on electronic PIS displays would have been a good idea - paper labels kinda spoil 'the look' a bit! Never mind, a minor gripe!