ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[sprinterguy]

TF/TS/TS/TGS - Hmm, already marshalled for how I'd guess they'd use a slam door set in service

Yeah the last couple of movements from Ely have been essentially in "service ready" formation.

 

[Stoney1979]

Is it likely that the slam-doors will be put into service as soon as they are ready, perhaps during Nov, or are we looking at a "big bang" on timetable-change day, 9th Dec? (by "big bang" I mean lots of HSTs coming into service on that specific day).

 

[chuff chuff]

Training on these slam door coaches hasn't started yet and may well be difficult during the current overtime ban by the rmt.

 

[Stoney1979]

Training on these slam door coaches hasn't started yet and may well be difficult during the current overtime ban by the rmt.

Thanks. Won't hold my breath, then.

 

[59CosG95]

That did indeed run; as 0L46.
There is a return working (light engines) booked to leave Ely Papworth at 1728, activated at 1628; it may be a non-runner.

It did actually run; this was 43176 & 43177 running to Loughborough Bursh for their repaint & mods.

 

[deltic08]

0952 Ely MLF Papworth Sidings to Perth

Understand its 43175 43124 with 4 coaches..... If anybody observes the formation can they please post formation.....

Also understand that there is a power car movement from Loughborough to Ely Papworth sidings 43141 43026

Thanks in advance

SC43090

There was short GWR set 2+3 in Doncaster yard yesterday. Could this be anything to do with Scotland or just waiting for the Works? Don't know any numbers.

 

[SC43090]

Another ECS movement today

5S03 0952 Eiy Papworth Sidings to Dundee

43125

41144

42295

42296

44039

43141

SC43090

 

[Goldromans]

Does anyone know why ScotRail are (or at least seem to be) going for a full first class coach on the “classic” sets instead of using the GWR (micro)buffet coaches? Just can’t imagine any ScotRail service having that many first class passengers, and means the new hot options won’t be available on the unrefurbed sets!

 

[jingsmonty]

Does anyone know why ScotRail are (or at least seem to be) going for a full first class coach on the “classic” sets instead of using the GWR (micro)buffet coaches? Just can’t imagine any ScotRail service having that many first class passengers, and means the new hot options won’t be available on the unrefurbed sets!

I believe they are going for the full 1st Class coach on the 'Classic' sets - they will have 2 catering staff on board (same as the refurbished set), but both will be working trolleys, as opposed to 1 trolley & 1 hot buffet.

 

[Photohunter71]

Why did they specify 2+4 and 2+5 formations? I thought 2+5 and 2+6 ala 47/7's would be a better formation enabling more capacity?

 

[sprinterguy]

Why did they specify 2+4 and 2+5 formations? I thought 2+5 and 2+6 ala 47/7's would be a better formation enabling more capacity?

Limited number of long platforms at Glasgow Queen Street (A 2+4 HST is comparable in length to a 6-car 170 formation) and depot space at Haymarket are two constraining factors. The depot shed at Haymarket is having to be lengthened to accommodate 2+5 formations.

Abellio have probably given considerable thought as well to the minimum number of vehicles they have to lease to provide an increase in capacity and meet projected passenger numbers. The proportion of 2+5 to 2+4 sets has already increased from that stated in the franchise agreement.

There are planned to be two 2+6 sets formed up from December 2022.

 

[SC43090]

Does anyone know why ScotRail are (or at least seem to be) going for a full first class coach on the “classic” sets instead of using the GWR (micro)buffet coaches? Just can’t imagine any ScotRail service having that many first class passengers, and means the new hot options won’t be available on the unrefurbed sets!

As far as i'm aware none of the 19 Trailer Buffet Standard have come of lease yet...... 40101 to 40119

 

[sprinterguy]

Does anyone know why ScotRail are (or at least seem to be) going for a full first class coach on the “classic” sets instead of using the GWR (micro)buffet coaches?

As far as i'm aware none of the 19 Trailer Buffet Standard have come of lease yet...... 40101 to 40119

All of the 401xx micro-buffet vehicles are also owned by Porterbrook so aren't available to Scotrail.

 

[Bodiddly]

Guards are now on an OT ban. The chances of the training being done to get the slam door stock on to the services are now pretty slim.

 

[Photohunter71]

Limited number of long platforms at Glasgow Queen Street (A 2+4 HST is comparable in length to a 6-car 170 formation) and depot space at Haymarket are two constraining factors. The depot shed at Haymarket is having to be lengthened to accommodate 2+5 formations.

Abellio have probably given considerable thought as well to the minimum number of vehicles they have to lease to provide an increase in capacity and meet projected passenger numbers. The proportion of 2+5 to 2+4 sets has already increased from that stated in the franchise agreement.

There are planned to be two 2+6 sets formed up from December 2022.

Thanks for the reply. I certainly was under the impression that some platform lengths were extended to comfortably take a longer train, however I didn't take into consideration the Haymarket depot! I'll definitely miss the 68's and stock rumbling past my flat when they're displaced by the 125's putting the 170's on the Fife circle.

 

[sprinterguy]

Thanks for the reply. I certainly was under the impression that some platform lengths were extended to comfortably take a longer train, however I didn't take into consideration the Haymarket depot! I'll definitely miss the 68's and stock rumbling past my flat when they're displaced by the 125's putting the 170's on the Fife circle.

The platforms at Glasgow Queen Street are being (or have been?) extended to accommodate longer trains, but the lengths will be variable and the Edinburgh - Glasgow 8 x 23m formations will take advantage of the longest. 2+4 formations give a bit more flexibility while still providing a capacity increase over a single 170. In an ideal world personally I'd agree that 2+5 and 2+6 formations would be better.

 

[CC 72100]

All of the 401xx micro-buffet vehicles are also owned by Porterbrook so aren't available to Scotrail.

Thanks for confirming - anecdotally was going to say that a micro-buffet 401xx set seems far more common on GWR services these days so suspected that none (or very few) of these have gone off lease compared to the 402/407/408/409 series, and that confirms it.

 

[Callum Waring]

Is anyone planning on giving the refurbished set a go on Monday?

 

[jingsmonty]

Is anyone planning on giving the refurbished set a go on Monday?

I would love to, if I wasn't working.....

 

[Highlandspring]

Is anyone planning on giving the refurbished set a go on Monday?

I will be.

 

[380101]

I will be.

Standing? As i imagine they'll be pretty rammed with "enthusiasts" the first few days or will you do what our Chief Operating Officer and Operations Director do whilst travelling on their staff passes and remain sitting whilst paying passengers stand on their morning commutes as there's no seats?

 

[Highlandspring]

I will be a paying passenger; I don’t work for ScotRail and I get no travel concessions. If it’s full I’ll stand, if not I’ll sit.

 

[380101]

I will be a paying passenger; I don’t work for ScotRail and I get no travel concessions. If it’s full I’ll stand, if not I’ll sit.

Ah right, I just assumed from all your postings you were ScotRail control staff. For what its worth, if you're NR I think you should all get the free travel due to the alliance. ScotRail seem to be the winner in the Alliance compared to NR.

 

[jingsmonty]

The space in the side wall of the original batch cabs (units 401 - 424) would have housed a standard CDU rather than a suitcase sized car battery powered TTU; there’s the appropriate wiring harness in there for power supply and to connect to the former NRN radio equipment but with the upgrade to Next Gen any future fitment of a new CDR would require modifications to the unit. Adtranz offered this as an option because the batch of 12 170/2s they built for Anglia required it for use over the Saxmundham RETB area (I’ve seen a photo of one fitted with a CDR) and I believe the 170/5 and 170/6 subclasses for Central Trains were RETB capable as well. By the time the later batches of ScotRail 170s were built Adtranz had upgraded the class with Mitrac and the space was lost to the interface screen.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see HSTs run north of Inverness at some point. I did hear mention a while ago that there may be a trip to Wick/Thurso in the offing as part of the launch but I don’t have any further info or confirmation of that.

I hope this happens - I'd love to drive an HST up to Wick/Thurso! I remember being in Wick when a Class 156 (&a 150, many Years ago) went up on a demonstration run.

 

[jingsmonty]

Is it likely that the slam-doors will be put into service as soon as they are ready, perhaps during Nov, or are we looking at a "big bang" on timetable-change day, 9th Dec? (by "big bang" I mean lots of HSTs coming into service on that specific day).

The 04.53 Inverness to Edinburgh (via Aberdeen) & 12.53 Inverness to Edinburgh are proposed for HST from December timetable. The 17.42 Edinburgh to Inverness & (I think) the late Edinburgh to Inverness (via Aberdeen) are the 2 Northbound workings.

 

[Stopper]

The 04.53 Inverness to Edinburgh (via Aberdeen) & 12.53 Inverness to Edinburgh are proposed for HST from December timetable. The 17.42 Edinburgh to Inverness & (I think) the late Edinburgh to Inverness (via Aberdeen) are the 2 Northbound workings.

That’s great stuff. I use the 17:42 travelling to see family and it is always overcrowded.

 

[Esker-pades]

I've heard elsewhere that the HST set won't run the 09:07 Aberdeen to Edinburgh Waverley. It will start from Edinburgh on the 13:30 service. Is this information correct?

 

[chuff chuff]

Not last I heard but who knows.

 

[nixer10]

Not last I heard but who knows.

AFAIK the refurbished set ran up to Aberdeen this morning,so lookslike it's starting from there on Monday.

 

[SC318250]

How many sets for Scotrail are currently in Wabtec Doncaster?
Thanks in advance