Are our railways haunted? (ghost stories)

[Moodster020]

Here's a video capture of a Ghost train:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRfGIy-lAFA

 

[ralphchadkirk]

and funnily enough I do rather take issue with you declaring on the validity of what I have seen.

Since to get a PTS, you need to have an eye test, I don't think there is any problem with the validity of the stories.

Certianly I for one do believe in the Paranormal, I have had experiences that I (and science) are unable to explain. Those who cannot think outside the box, dismissing it as BS, really need to start thinking outside the box.

I would not, for one instance call myself expeirienced, or a railwayman, but even on my short stint there have been places which do not "feel normal", where passengers do not go.

 

[ShamMan]

I've attached (i'm new to this so it might not have worked) a photo of 66004 passing Barnetby and i've often wondered what the white image is standing to the left of the driver, seems spooky to me when i first saw it...

Photo taken on 6th May 2005...

Richard.

 

[CosherB]

OT, you say....


You have been given a number of examples for which there is no rational explanation, unfortunately these do not appear on your radar.

I have been given no such example! Not one! Nothing that can be nailed down and examined.

I asked you to cite just one happening (not just 'something someone saw', but an actual happening which has been proved to be real rather than imagined) that science has been unable to explain. You have not done so - becuase, of course, there is no such happening (and please don't come back again with 'stuff people thought they saw' or 'there's lots of unexplained stuff about' - read again what I've asked for above. BE SPECIFIC!).

You then suggest I simply 'leave the thread alone'. There is some sense in that, as the thread is about ghost stories, not about the existance of the supernatural. However, you have posted stuff in this thread about my posts that attemt to 'rubbish' those posts, even though everything I have posted is 100% logical and irrefutable. So you can't expect me not to come back to refute such rubbishing. You may not like my opinion, but it as valid as yours and just as deserving to appear here, and I have a right to defend it and not succumb to your on-line bullying.

And doesn't it seem a little odd that all these so called paranormal events happen in circumstances that make them unprovable? For instance, one person reports seeing a ghost train in a lonely location. If such events were real, why don't 200 commuters on Crewe station one morning all see a specteral 'Rocket' at the head of a train Liverpool & Manchester coaches slide silently though the station? Now that would take some rational explaining, especially if it was filmed!

 

[The 158 Man]

Captain Speaking, you say you have not been given any examples of situations that can't easily be explained.

Well what about the dis-used Signal Box issue a page or so back?

If you have a logical, and rational explanation for this event, then I'm sure we'd all benefit from your interpretation. So please, do share dearie.....

 

[Old Timer]

Here is a tale from the US.

The background to it is as follows.

Some while back there was a forum for professional US Railroad men which I was invited to become a member of, and whilst there I made friends with a number of the regular contributors.

One of these guys was an Engineer (Driver in UK terms) and one day he posted abouit an experience that had considerably shaken him and his Conductor up.

Now in the US the Engineer drives the train whilst the Conductor is responsible for the safety of the train and for sending and receiving messages associated with the running of the train.

For example the Conductor will receive, transcribe and return track warrants for each section that the train passes through. Signalling is done by secure radio, and in some cases the authority to enter a single line is made via a track warrant which is transmitted from the despatcher (Signalman in UK terms) to the Conductor.

This is done over an open channel radio so that train crew know where other trains are and can intercede if they hear an irregularityy in the issue or return of a track warrant.

For those interested there is a website where you can listen to these transmissions.
www.railroadradio.net

I can recommend Harrisburg.

Anyway back to the story.

One night he was driving a train when at a long radius curve, he and the Conductor saw another train coming towards them in the distance.

He immediately placed the train into emergency, which is an irrecoverable brake step on the brake controller, and something that they are instructed to do in only the most dire of circumstances.

The Conductor immediately made an emergency broadcast giving their position and the situation in some pretty flowery language, before the both threw themselves to the floor convinced the end was upon them, as the train was still travelling too fast for them to even begin to think of baling out.

The cab filled with light but instead of the inevitable collision, it suddenly went black outside again, the only noise being made by the train braking hard.

In the distance they could hear an agitated Despatcher asking what was going on as there was no other train near them and definitely nothing coming towards them in that area.

Of course the whole episode became a fairly big incident because having braked in emergency, they then had to walk the train from end to end in the middle of nowhere with wolves and coyotes and whatever else walks around at night. The train was over two miles in length so it was sometime before the complete train had been checked, and of course in this time trains were standing along the whole route some hundreds of miles long.

On arrival at destination they were instructed that they were not to work back the next day but were to be driven back for interview with their Manager.

The interview was not initailly pleasant until the Manager was satisfied that they were not trying to cover up something, at which stage it came to light (pardon the pun) that over the years odd reports of a similar nature had come in. In most cases the crews had not had time to respond or make an emergency brake application.

It came to light then that several other crews had experienced this some had reported unusual lights, others had not said anything until this guy posted the story.

Now I can only vouch for the honesty of this guy from the messages exchanged and conversations we had, but I formed an opinion of a good guy, who certainly had the respect of the other members.

Sadly that Forum started to become trolled with heated Union debates and the site owner eventually shut it down which was a shame.


There is another story of a ghostly stop light that occurred in a place called Moonville Tunnel on the old Burlington and Ohio Railroad. After many occurrences of trains making emergency brake applications having seen a lamp stop handsignal, the operator, by then the Chesapeake and Ohio (Chessie), (later to become CSX) installed a lone stop signal on the western end of the tunnel and issued out instructions that no train was to stop unless this permanent signal was showing red. They also forbade track staff to use any other form of light to stop a train.

Here is a link to a website about this. It makes interesting reading.

http://www.spikesys.com/Trains/moonvill.html

 

[The 158 Man]

Wow. I think I'd have s**t myself!

 

[Old Timer]

OT, you say....


You have been given a number of examples for which there is no rational explanation, unfortunately these do not appear on your radar.

I have been given no such example! Not one! Nothing that can be nailed down and examined.

I asked you to cite just one happening (not just 'something someone saw', but an actual happening which has been proved to be real rather than imagined) that science has been unable to explain. You have not done so - becuase, of course, there is no such happening (and please don't come back again with 'stuff people thought they saw' or 'there's lots of unexplained stuff about' - read again what I've asked for above. BE SPECIFIC!).

Please go to post 41.

You certainly have FOUR examples that have never been explained. Unfortunately they are RAF / Aircraft related, but irrespective of that they have good provenance.

You then suggest I simply 'leave the thread alone'. There is some sense in that, as the thread is about ghost stories, not about the existance of the supernatural. However, you have posted stuff in this thread about my posts that attemt to 'rubbish' those posts, even though everything I have posted is 100% logical and irrefutable. So you can't expect me not to come back to refute such rubbishing.

You have refuted absolutely nothing unless this is what calling posts "tish" and "B......t". Anyone can do that. Anyone can smugly say "I don't believe".. That is fine but go do a little research before you try to disparage what I have written.

..You may not like my opinion, but it as valid as yours and just as deserving to appear here, and I have a right to defend it and not succumb to your on-line bullying....

I do not deny you the right to defend yourself and put forward an opinion, but when it consists simply of a repetitive statement that YOU do not believe it so therefore it is rubbish, you must expect a robust defence, especially when the effect is to spoil the thread. I continue to point out instances where there is no logical rational explanation, even by the authorities, which you continually ignore. I can only assume you don't read, or you do not like, what is written.

Why not get hold of one of the many "Ghost Stations" books (RAF that is), find one where the RAF was unable to establish a cause and then ring up and ask them what their official policy is on haunted areas of airfields.

I dispute you assertion that I am bullying you. You are a big boy so you say. If you feel I am bullying you then I am happy to be sanctioned by the Mod team if they feel that is the case.

Personally I do not consider that I have been bullying you, and neither I guess does anyone else. If they do then they are free to say so without fear of me.

I guess on that basis I could consider your continued suggestion that my posts (true and accurate statements of incidents I have been involved in) are "tosh" and "b******t" constitute bullying also. I certainly do not take kindly to being accused of being a liar by someone who has never worked in the environment.

 

[The 158 Man]

Here is a tale from the US.

There is another story of a ghostly stop light that occurred in a place called Moonville Tunnel on the old Burlington and Ohio Railroad. After many occurrences of trains making emergency brake applications having seen a lamp stop handsignal, the operator, by then the Chesapeake and Ohio (Chessie), (later to become CSX) installed a lone stop signal on the western end of the tunnel and issued out instructions that no train was to stop unless this permanent signal was showing red. They also forbade track staff to use any other form of light to stop a train.

Here is a link to a website about this. It makes interesting reading.

http://www.spikesys.com/Trains/moonvill.html

Thanks for the link OT, certainly very interesting.

Not sure I'd want to be around there at night though!

Do ghosts / paranormal activities scare you OT?

 

[CosherB]

Just had a look at post 41 again, OT:

Individual accounts of 'something seen', or supposed 'closed RAF records'. The RAF are not wussies, and don't hide stuff under the carpet as 'unexplained' - they investigate until they get an answer!

There is nothing there that constitutes a provable instance of the completly unexplainable.

Such an instance is all I ask..... But I'm not holding my breath. If such an event had happened, scientists would have had to admit that they have evidence of an event that defies rational explanation. There has never been such an event - unless you can appraise me of one?

And why don't loads of folk see these things all at once as I asked before, if they really happen? Doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that that never happens (200 unconnected people seeing a ghost train all at the same time), that only individuals experience them, and that these events therefore remain unprovable?

 

[Old Timer]

Had you bothered to read properly you would know that the RAF did not sweep under the carpet. They concluded matters unexplained after extensive inquiries and investigations failed to find any reason.

As many of these incidents took place during the Cold War, you can be certain that they were very thoroughly followed up.

If you bother to read the Ghost Stations books I have recommended, written incidentally by a somewhat sceptical former RAF Military Policeman, you will not mnake yourself look so foolish as ultimately HE has to conclude that things cannot be explained.

OK now a few things I have picked up by a simple google, it really IS that easy to prove you wrong.

1. DARK MATTER of an unknown form makes up most of the matter of the universe. This matter is not predicted by the standard physics models. The so-called "Theory of Everything" does not predict and does not understand what this substance is.
2. THE LAW OF GRAVITY appears to be seriously broken. Experiments by Saxl and Allais found that Foucault pendulums veer off in strange directions during solar eclipses. Interplanetary NASA satellites are showing persistent errors in trajectory. Neither of these is explained or predicted by the standard theory of gravity known as Einstein's General Relativity.
3. COLD FUSION. The Cold Fusion phenomenon violates physics as we understand it, and yet it has been duplicated in various forms in over 500 laboratories around the world. Recent studies by the Electric Power Research Institute, a large non-profit research organization funded by the nation's power companies, found that Cold Fusion works. A recent Navy study also verified the reality of Cold Fusion, and the original MIT study which supposedly disproved Cold Fusion has been found to have doctored its data. Present day physics has no explanation for how it works, but it does work.
4. CHARGE CLUSTERS. Under certain conditions, billions of electrons can "stick together" in close proximity, despite the law of electromagnetism that like charges repel. Charge clusters are small, one millionth of a meter in diameter, and are composed of tens or hundreds of billions of electrons. They should fly apart at enormous speed, but they do not. This indicates that our laws of electromagnetism are missing something important.
5. COSMOLOGY. Quasars, which are supposed to be the most distant astronomical objects in the sky, are often found connected to nearby galaxies by jets of gas. This suggests that they may not be as far away as previously thought, and their red shifts are due to some other, more unusual physics which is not yet fully understood.
6. SPEED OF LIGHT, once thought unbreakable, has been exceeded in several recent experiments. Our notion of what is possible in terms of propagation speed has been changing as a result. Certain phenomena, such as solar disturbances on the sun which take more than eight minutes to be visible on the earth, are registered instantaneously on the acupuncture points of instrumented subjects. Acupuncture points apparently respond to solar events by some other force which travels through space at a much higher speed than light.
This covers just a few of the more glaring anomalies in the "hard sciences." Evidence has also accumulated in the laboratory that many paranormal effects are real, and can be verified and studied scientifically. Among these are the following:
7. ESP. Large-scale experiments by the Princeton PEAR Lab as well as other laboratories have proven that ESP is a real, statistically verifiable scientific phenomenon. Thousands of experiments have been conducted with dozens of subjects, which demonstrate that this form of communication is real, and that it does not weaken measurably with distance. This makes it unlike any known physical force.
8. PSYCHOKINESIS, OR MIND OVER MATTER. The ability to exert psychic force over objects at a distance has also been demonstrated in large-scale experiments. Even over distances of thousands of miles, the behavior of certain machines, called REGs for Random Event Generators, have been altered by the intention, or the psychic force of a distant person. The odds that these effects are real, and not due to chance, is now measured in billions to one. In other words, this phenomenon is real.
9. REMOTE VIEWING. The American military conducted a secret remote viewing program for almost two decades. It was supported because it worked, and evidence of its success has now become public. The remote viewers have demonstrated that it is possible to view "targets" which are remote in space and time. In many cases details which were unavailable any other way were acquired by the viewers. Rigorous statistical experiments have confirmed that remote viewing has accuracy far above chance, and represents a real phenomenon which defies present science.
10. TIME AND PROPHECY. One unusual aspect of ESP, Remote Viewing and Psychokinesis is that "time" doesn't seem to matter. One can exert an influence or acquire information in the past and in the future, almost as easily as in the present. In conventional physics, the order of events is very important, but in the realm of psychic phenomena there seems to be a flexibility to move in time that defies current physics.
11. OUT-OF-BODY EXPERIENCE. Experiments have been performed which show that, during some out-of-body experiences, the "astral body" or center of consciousness of the individual can be detected at remote locations. When individuals go "out of body" and focus their consciousness at another location, physical disturbances have been measured at that remote location. These include anomalous light, electrical, magnetic and other physical forces which indicate the "astral body" sometimes has physically measurable properties.
12. GHOSTS. Modern scientific ghost hunters use magnetic, electrical, optical and thermal sensors when they survey supposedly haunted sites. In hundreds of cases, technically trained researchers have found measurable physical anomalies when ghosts are said to be present. Although some people have claimed to see ghosts, and many have reported anomalous cold spots and described a strange chill on their skin, modern ghost hunters have shown that unusual magnetic fields and strong voltages also occur in these same haunted locations. Unusual orbs have been photographed at the same time that magnetic and electrical disturbances are measured. None of these can be explained by conventional science.

I would also point to a number of psychic mediums who have helped the Police both in the UK and in the USA to find victims. Care to explain that ?

However whilst you may have the time to continue the debate you will never accept anything I or indeed other's say which contradicts what you believe, so the whole matter is a complete waste of my time and space on here.

It also detracts from the thread.

I cannot comment on hundreds of people seeing ghost trains, I am simply someone who is happy to keep an open mind on matters that cannot be rationally explained.. IF you really do have to continue the debate then come up with constructive reasons WHY something did not occur, or why so many people saw biplanes over Montrose airfield or continue to hear a/c engines at former WW2 airfields or why on an ongoing basis strangers who stop at Hemswell remark on the RAF personnel walking along the road, when there is no RAF station for miles, and indeed no RAF personnel seen subsequently.

This really is my last response on this matter

 

[yorksrob]

Victorian Woman

Location: Wakefield (Yorkshire) - Kirkgate Railway Station
Type: Haunting Manifestation
Date / Time: Unknown
Further Comments: A phantom woman in Victorian clothing has been reported moving around the subway that connects platforms 1 and 2.




as anyone been to this dump must be a wind up even a ghost would not go to the place.

I had wondered why the subway was so damp and slimey - must be ectoplasm

 

[CosherB]

It isn't a debate, OT. That requires logical discussion, and you continue to neatly sidestep that. And I never said science can explain everything, such as Dark Matter and all the questions that Cosmology generates. But it can explain so-called supernatural happenings. At least, I am not aware of any such happening that has stumped science. And actually you don't need to bother a scientist to deduce several likely non-supernatural explanations to all the 'happenings' I've seen reported in this thread.

But as I said, Ghost stories can be fun - but they are not real. Let's enjoy them as stories, and nothing more.

 

[Old Timer]

http://compassparanormalevents.co.uk/

 

[Trog]

Is the failure of the Theory of Everything to explain Dark Matter anything to do with the fact that physics has not yet actually managed to produce this theory yet?

Although I think its successful formulation is top of their wish list.

 

[Old Timer]

This article may help ?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=is-dark-matter-theory-or

 

[90019]

That requires logical discussion, and you continue to neatly sidestep that.

This from someone whose basic argument is; "I think it's BS and I don't believe it, therefore it can't be true".

Please can you leave this thread already?
Your posts are just getting annoying and your constant need to argue about it is somewhat childish.

OT has so far come up with some very interesting arguments and ideas; on the other side you have so far come up with very little.
Personally, I'm not too sure about it, there are good arguments or both sides, but if I was just going by what has been shown by you two in this thread, OT has it hands down.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Not railway, but my wife's late mother visits us in the house... How do we know? because even though my wife smokes, she goes outside and shuts the door. We get a very (as in someone is actually smoking in the room) strong smell of cigarette smoke, followed a few minutes later by the smell of air freshener. She used to smoke when alive and sprayed air freshener around once she had finished. It happened at my wife's old flat before she moved in with me, and it happens here too.
Also, we have a 3 and a half month old son, who looks at the tall CD rack in our lounge and stares at it, even if you turn him round! If we say to him "What's your Nana saying?" he starts smiling and laughing.
There is nothing unusual about the CD rack!!

 

[Kernowfem]

A huge thanks to everyone who keeps contributing to the thread. Especially old timer who's stories i am thoroughly enjoying...Thanks for sharing them. Keep em coming!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've attached (i'm new to this so it might not have worked) a photo of 66004 passing Barnetby and i've often wondered what the white image is standing to the left of the driver, seems spooky to me when i first saw it...

Photo taken on 6th May 2005...

Richard.

Oooooo interesting picture!! it could be a trick of the light, but all the same it gave me goose bumps!!! Did you see anything when you took the picture??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sorry 158, good stories they may be but they're so full of holes where a rational explanation would fit that 'bull****' has to be the correct description.

Enjoy them as stories by all means, but please apply a bit of common sense as well!

Are you still here?? Admit it captain speaking, you're loving this thread, you must be, you keep coming back to it. I think your a closet believer
Any more stories to contribute CS???
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I wondered why the name was Kernowfem
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ive got one 37069 passed me and down at the end of the platform gave a 2 tone,
there were no rail workers or enthusiasts at that end so no reason for the tone, they do say 069`s horns go off on their own and what not.

Lol, sir, i am indeed a lady...Have any drivers confirmed that the horns go off on their own, and has there been any other oddities reported about the 069's?

 

[BlythPower]

Have any drivers confirmed that the horns go off on their own, and has there been any other oddities reported about the 069's?

Apparently, the fire extinguishers also went off at random. Though it seems to behave now it's owned by DRS. More detail in Crossing the Line if required.

 

[Kernowfem]

Apparently, the fire extinguishers also went off at random. Though it seems to behave now it's owned by DRS. More detail in Crossing the Line if required.

I have just ordered a copy on amazon. Im looking forward to reading it. I have also ordered shadows in the steam which was published on the 1st of this month..also rumoured to be very good, cheers for the info

 

[Trog]

This article may help ?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=is-dark-matter-theory-or

No not really it explains what Dark Matter is and how its existance was deduced. But there is not even a mention of the two current theories to explain how the universe works. Let alone the still sought after Theory of Everything.

 

[CosherB]

This from someone whose basic argument is; "I think it's BS and I don't believe it, therefore it can't be true".

No, that's quite incorrect and you have made it up. I have been very careful in what I post to say that I don't believe it because it can't be proved, whereas rational explanations can be constructed that explain these stories. But of course, rational explanations are boring, and mysteries are fun. So here's one:

Some time ago (in the mid 1970s I think) a Wellington bomber was seen flying down a valley in the Brecon Beacons. There isn't today, and there hasn't been since WW2, a flyable example of the Wellington. Yet several people saw it.

Was it a ghost 'plane?

Call me a cynic (many have, on here!), but I'd like to know which aircraft were low-flying in the Brecons that day (it is a military low flying area and also popular with pleasure-flying civilian aircraft), and whether any of them possess a passing resemblance to the Wellington?

 

[SouthEastern-465]

It isn't a debate, OT. That requires logical discussion, and you continue to neatly sidestep that. And I never said science can explain everything, such as Dark Matter and all the questions that Cosmology generates. But it can explain so-called supernatural happenings. At least, I am not aware of any such happening that has stumped science. And actually you don't need to bother a scientist to deduce several likely non-supernatural explanations to all the 'happenings' I've seen reported in this thread.

But as I said, Ghost stories can be fun - but they are not real. Let's enjoy them as stories, and nothing more.

Look Captain Speaking just because you dont believe in this sort of stuff and we do stop trying to spoil our fun if you dont believe in this I recomend you dont read this thread as most of us do believe in them,Old Timers storys are contributing to the Thread unlike yours.

You have said time over time agin that you do not believe in this stuff and we get the message so please if you dont like the storys posted here find another thread elsewhere to keep on subject.

Now lets keep on subject a get some other great storys.

 

[CosherB]

Look Captain Speaking just because you dont believe in this sort of stuff and we do stop trying to spoil our fun if you dont believe in this I recomend you dont read this thread as most of us do believe in them,Old Timers storys are contributing to the Thread unlike yours.

Now lets keep on subject a get some other great storys.

You don't like aeroplane ghost stories?

 

[Kernowfem]

Look Captain Speaking just because you dont believe in this sort of stuff and we do stop trying to spoil our fun if you dont believe in this I recomend you dont read this thread as most of us do believe in them,Old Timers storys are contributing to the Thread unlike yours.

You have said time over time agin that you do not believe in this stuff and we get the message so please if you dont like the storys posted here find another thread elsewhere to keep on subject.

Now lets keep on subject a get some other great storys.

Here here!! I totaly agree with you about OT stories, id really like to hear some more if he has any. Like i said in a previous post, i reckon CS is a closet believer...he loves this thread so much he cant help coming back
Back on topic, i have been told that a steam engine can still be heard thundering through hallington station in lincolnshire, even though the louth to bardney line closed over 40 years ago..anyone else heard this one?

 

[The 158 Man]

I have been very careful in what I post to say that I don't believe it because it can't be proved, whereas rational explanations can be constructed that explain these stories.

Could you please give me/us your rational explanation for the dis-used Signal Box issue? I'm dying to hear it!

 

[CosherB]

Could you please give me/us your rational explanation for the dis-used Signal Box issue? I'm dying to hear it!

OK, I'll bite (I may regret this!).

I'd need to know the full facts, not just what OT has posted here. But he does say:

Sure enough in the far distance we could see the closed signalbox that was the subject of the report, and indeed the lights were on.

Of course we did not know who was in there or why so it was decided that the easiest and quckest way to get there would be to drive to it, which we did, albeit at some rapid speed. Remember that the Police were treating it as a potential burglary/vandalism/arson, and in an otherwise quiet City, it actually added some variation to an otherwise sedentary night.

Off we went therefore with the blue lights flashing, with me racing along behind in the Railway van trying to keep up.

Much quicker of course than would ordinarily have been the case, we reached the Signalbox................. to find it in total darkness.

So they saw the lights were on, and when they arrived at the box, it was in darkness. In the flat fenland landscape described, I'd have thought they'd have had the box in sight all the time, and would have noted the change of status from lit to dark. Yet there is no mention of this.

To determine what was actually going on that night, we need to know more (other sources of light in the box, ladder marks in the ground suggesting entry though an unlatched window, footprints in the surrounding area - and about 10,000 more things SOC teams would check for). A full investigation by the police (obviously not thought worthwhile since there was no damage or danger to trains) was presumably not carried out.

Torchlight can look like oil light from a moving train... the possibibilites are manifold. One could could construct many possible scenarios to explain what OT has posted... but we only have what he has posted. Doubtless there was a great deal more to this (no dissing of OT for that - every story has many aspects, and he gave us just one, as you'd expect). Without knowing all the facts, it's impossible to say which one of many possible scenarios explained the happenings of that night. None of them supernatural.

You have to look beyond the facts presented in the ghost story, and realise that there may be far more stuff that's relevant that doesn't appear in the story.

Can you imagine the state of the justice system if sentence was passed on a suspect on the evidence of one person's account? The court will demand to hear all the facts, from many sources, many of which will be contradictory. It is then the court's job to find the truth. If such sources are not available, guilt would never be assumed on the evidence of one person's account.

We only have one account of this event, presented no doubt (in the interests of entertainment) to big-up the ghost story aspects. Why should our judgement of what is real and what is fantasy be any different here than a court of law would demand, if we really seek the truth rather just accept the story at face value as an unexplainable mystery?

Ain't this just common sense?

 

[Kernowfem]

OK, I'll bite (I may regret this!).

I'd need to know the full facts, not just what OT has posted here. But he does say:



So they saw the lights were on, and when they arrived at the box, it was in darkness. In the flat fenland landscape described, I'd have thought they'd have had the box in sight all the time, and would have noted the change of status from lit to dark. Yet there is no mention of this.

I hope you dont drive....
If i was racing through fen land in a car at high speed in the dark, my eyes would not be on a fixed point in the distance, they would be on the road in front, and my full concentration would be fixed on driving. Therefore at some point OT and the police man driving his car would most certainly have had to take their eyes off the signal box. You cannot discount the possibility of bends even on a flat landscape, trees, farms, houses/hedges and other said obsticles that may have blocked the view.
Also if the police vehicle had its blue lights flashing it would also have made visiblity difficult. your quite right when you say you would need to hear all sides of the story and be in possesion of all the facts etc, you dont have all the facts, yet you are adamant that OT story is rubbish, and you continue to inform other forum users that they shouldnt these things seriously. If you are not in possesion of the full facts how can you make a decision either way?? I myself have not questioned these stories either way...i have just enjoyed reading them. Perhaps, if you do not have definetive proof either side, you should do the same

 

[CosherB]

I hope you dont drive....

'Fraid so. And fly big metal birds through the sky, and ride fast motorbikes, and fly smaller metal birds that loop and roll and 'Done a hundred things you have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung'. So my hand-eye co-ordination and knowedlge of where to be looking while doing all of this is pretty good.

your quite right when you say you would need to hear all sides of the story and be in possesion of all the facts etc, you dont have all the facts, yet you are adamant that OT story is rubbish, and you continue to inform other forum users that they shouldnt these things seriously. If you are not in possesion of the full facts how can you make a decision either way?? I myself have not questioned these stories either way...i have just enjoyed reading them. Perhaps, if you do not have definetive proof either side, you should do the same

That's where the mis-understanding comes in. Perhaps I haven't made myself clear. I can't make a descision either way, precisely because I am not in posession of all of the facts. However, I can think of many possible rational explanations for what was reported, so why would I go for an irrational solution? If I told you that my car runs by supernatural forces, you could not prove me wrong (because you can't prove a negative). But if it looks like it's got a petrol engine, smells like it's got a petrol engine, and sounds like it goes by means of a petrol engine, wouldn't you naturally conclude that actually, it's just a petrol-driven car like all the others?

Surely, a supernatural explanation for an event should only be assumed if there is no possible natural explanation for that event. So that's why I say enjoy these stories for what they are - stories; but realise that there is almost certainly a boring old rational explanation for the events.