May 2019 timetable changes

[Deafdoggie]

At present the Voyager that arrives in to Bristol from Manchester around 1310 is attached to the 1330 to Dundee. From May it goes to Exeter instead and thus provides the extra voyager for the Exeter extensions.

I assume that the current 1330 Bristol to Dundee (1125 Plymouth - Dundee) becomes a 5 car voyager throughout instead of a 4 car with another 4 car attached at Bristol.

Is that why the current 09:35 Penzance-Manchester becomes 09:25 Penzance-Dundee? Although the Manchester train at present is a four car.

 

[30907]

... The afternoon departure from Paignton (around 14:00) to Manchester appears to be missing on RTT. But that could be an error-as the inbound working is still there!

Undoubtedly - it could conceivably now run an hour later, as there is a new 1407 arrival at Exeter which has a 2 hour layover.

(Rest deleted, I was too slow)

 

[Starmill]

At present the Voyager that arrives in to Bristol from Manchester around 1310 is attached to the 1330 to Dundee. From May it goes to Exeter instead and thus provides the extra voyager for the Exeter extensions.

I assume that the current 1330 Bristol to Dundee (1125 Plymouth - Dundee) becomes a 5 car voyager throughout instead of a 4 car with another 4 car attached at Bristol.

Indeed. If so, I doubt it will be a popular move reducing this train (1503 from Birmingham New Street, 1621 from Sheffield, 1708 from Leeds) from 8 to 5 cars.

 

[Bikeman78]

Just had a look at what's uploaded to RealTimeTrains. Some impressive improvements I have to say, but a lot of through working is being introduced all at once, and I somehow fear it's going to become a reprieve of what the May 2018 timetable change did to Northern and GTR. Let's hope everything goes smoothly!

Some notable changes include:

• Introduction of all-day through services from Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston via Birmingham and Northampton (joining up existing Liverpool-Birmingham and Birmingham-London services), in a slightly unusual '9' class headcode, for bargain hunters and also those who love 350s so much they'll happily spend around over 4 hours in one travelling 202 miles!
• As stated above, the introduction of a train from Stafford to London that actually gets into London before 09:00, significantly improving the current unenviable position of 'WMR/LNR only' season ticket holders from Stafford to London, who currently have no route-permitted services whatsoever that get them into London before 09:00
• Joining up of Coventry-Nuneaton and Coventry-Leamington services, in addition to earlier first trains and later last trains. Not much attention been paid to arranging good connections to the last services though
• The possible ending of LM services via the Hixon cut-off?

Some complex inter working of routes as well. The Euston-Birmingham-Liverpools are self contained. However, the Euston-Rugeley units will do Euston-Rugeley-Birmingham International-Liverpool-New St. I think they will then attach to the front of the Crewe-Euston trains. The XX:20 Birmingham to Rugeley will detach off the rear of the Euston-Crewe which arrive at XX:13.

 

[cle]

Running from WCML southbound to Rugeley and down via Cannock to Birmingham - is that a full four track cross of the WCML, or is there some bi-di working?

 

[Bikeman78]

Running from WCML southbound to Rugeley and down via Cannock to Birmingham - is that a full four track cross of the WCML, or is there some bi-di working?

I think my post was confusing. To clarify, each hour there will be:
XX:15 Euston to Crewe via Northampton, Birmingham and Stoke
XX:24 Euston to Rugeley TV via Northampton and Birmingham
XX:46 Euston to Crewe via Weedon and Trent Valley
XX:49 Euston to Liverpool via Northampton and Birmingham
XX:54 Euston Milton Keynes Central

The XX:24 Rugeley trains follow the following cycle, e.g:
09:24 Euston to Rugeley arr 12:41
12:46 Rugeley to Birmingham Intl arr 13:55
14:18 Birmingham Intl to Liverpool Lime St arr 16:10
16:33 Liverpool Live Street to Birmingham NS arr 18:21
Which will then attach to the 18:33 to Euston (17:01 from Crewe) finally getting back to Euston at 20:30.

 

[43055]

At present the Voyager that arrives in to Bristol from Manchester around 1310 is attached to the 1330 to Dundee. From May it goes to Exeter instead and thus provides the extra voyager for the Exeter extensions.

I assume that the current 1330 Bristol to Dundee (1125 Plymouth - Dundee) becomes a 5 car voyager throughout instead of a 4 car with another 4 car attached at Bristol.

Looking into the 0925 service it is timed for a 220/221 Monday to Thursday and for a HST on Fridays. I have to admit the times that I have got this service from Birmingham it has been quite full and sometimes standing room only even with 8 coaches.

 

[sufian123]

Looking into the 0925 service it is timed for a 220/221 Monday to Thursday and for a HST on Fridays. I have to admit the times that I have got this service from Birmingham it has been quite full and sometimes standing room only even with 8 coaches.

It’s showing till September. Might change then. Might leave coupled from Penzance. Never know what’s the plan is.

 

[Batman]

I think my post was confusing. To clarify, each hour there will be:
XX:15 Euston to Crewe via Northampton, Birmingham and Stoke
XX:24 Euston to Rugeley TV via Northampton and Birmingham
XX:46 Euston to Crewe via Weedon and Trent Valley
XX:49 Euston to Liverpool via Northampton and Birmingham
XX:54 Euston Milton Keynes Central

The XX:24 Rugeley trains follow the following cycle, e.g:
09:24 Euston to Rugeley arr 12:41
12:46 Rugeley to Birmingham Intl arr 13:55
14:18 Birmingham Intl to Liverpool Lime St arr 16:10
16:33 Liverpool Live Street to Birmingham NS arr 18:21
Which will then attach to the 18:33 to Euston (17:01 from Crewe) finally getting back to Euston at 20:30.

Are the timings/stopping patterns/frequencies from Birmingham to Rugeley much different compared to the current timetable?

And where did you get that information from? I couldn’t find anything that far ahead on Real Time Trains.

 

[JonathanH]

XX:15 Euston to Crewe via Northampton, Birmingham and Stoke

Does moving the xx:13 to xx:15 leave some sort of unused path in front of it? Does 110mph really save two minutes to Ledburn Junction?

 

[sufian123]

Are the timings/stopping patterns/frequencies from Birmingham to Rugeley much different compared to the current timetable?

And where did you get that information from? I couldn’t find anything that far ahead on Real Time Trains.

You can’t visit this site http://trains.im/

 

[sufian123]

You can’t visit this site http://trains.im/

You can view May 19th onwards http://trains.im/

 

[Batman]

You can view May 19th onwards http://trains.im/

Thank you.

There’s a lot of potential for some of these new services to have big reliability problems.

Also the Birmingham to Rugeley late evening services are worse than they are now. The last Rugeley service leaves New Street at 2147, half an hour earlier than now. There’s then an hour wait until the next Walsall service at 2248 and a further 30 minute wait until the last Hednesford service at 2318 which was supposed to be extended on to Rugeley.

 

[Kite159]

I think my post was confusing. To clarify, each hour there will be:
XX:15 Euston to Crewe via Northampton, Birmingham and Stoke
XX:24 Euston to Rugeley TV via Northampton and Birmingham
XX:46 Euston to Crewe via Weedon and Trent Valley
XX:49 Euston to Liverpool via Northampton and Birmingham
XX:54 Euston Milton Keynes Central

The XX:24 Rugeley trains follow the following cycle, e.g:
09:24 Euston to Rugeley arr 12:41
12:46 Rugeley to Birmingham Intl arr 13:55
14:18 Birmingham Intl to Liverpool Lime St arr 16:10
16:33 Liverpool Live Street to Birmingham NS arr 18:21
Which will then attach to the 18:33 to Euston (17:01 from Crewe) finally getting back to Euston at 20:30.

At least Rugeley won't get stuck with only having 350/2s working backwards & forward all day long which probably would be suitable (similar to the current 170s which arrive into New Street from Aston to depart back towards Rugeley via Soho within a few minutes)

More single units on the WCML, unless that Euston - Rugeley detaches an unit on route

 

[sufian123]

Thank you.

There’s a lot of potential for some of these new services to have big reliability problems.

Also the Birmingham to Rugeley late evening services are worse than they are now. The last Rugeley service leaves New Street at 2147, half an hour earlier than now. There’s then an hour wait until the next Walsall service at 2248 and a further 30 minute wait until the last Hednesford service at 2318 which was supposed to be extended on to Rugeley.

I’m waiting for it to appear on RTT. This could change by the time new timetable is confirmed. RTT that’s why delays it. By End March we should know the confirmed time.

 

[sufian123]

At least Rugeley won't get stuck with only having 350/2s working backwards & forward all day long which probably would be suitable (similar to the current 170s which arrive into New Street from Aston to depart back towards Rugeley via Soho within a few minutes)

More single units on the WCML, unless that Euston - Rugeley detaches an unit on route

At new st if you follow on http://trains.im/ platform numbers you can see it detaching.

 

[Kite159]

At new st if you follow on http://trains.im/ platform numbers you can see it detaching.

So where does it say unit will detach?
http://trains.im/scheduledetail/P44797/2019/05/20/

No doubt most will be single units all the way from Euston, and will be a waste of a path on the busy WCML.

 

[sufian123]

So where does it say unit will detach?
http://trains.im/scheduledetail/P44797/2019/05/20/

No doubt most will be single units all the way from Euston, and will be a waste of a path on the busy WCML.

I agree. I wonder where the extra 350s coming from?

 

[Class 170101]

ScotRail changes identified so far:

Mon-Sat evening Edinburgh/Glasgow Queen Street half hourly services depart each end XX15 & XX45 from 1945 onwards, as opposed to 00 & 30 now. Positive is it extends 15 minute service until 1945, negatives is it changes a pattern that the public are very familiar with.

Last Edinburgh departure from Queen Street at 2345 (v good), last Queen Street departure from Edinburgh now 2315 (15 min earlier than present - that will cause trouble for sure).

This could very well be a missing schedule still.

I would hope a schedule is missing from Edinburgh. But why change the pattern in the evening if there is no 23:45? In any event there are some trains off pattern by a minute or two leaving Edinburgh. Also departures all day xx00 and xx30 from both cities seems a good marking / selling point - now lost.

 

[Class 170101]

There are also some strange timings on LM out of Euston in the evening.

18:46 to Crewe via the Weedon to run Fridays excepted. Still 18:49 on Fridays via Northampton. Presumably Virgin want the 18:46FO Euston to Preston to run? I would have thought it might be better for the whole timetable if this could be train moved to 18:36 / 18:37 departure instead.

I agree. I wonder where the extra 350s coming from?

Class 350/4s from TPE. Themselves being replaced at TPE with new Class 397 trains.

 

[sufian123]

There are also some strange timings on LM out of Euston in the evening.

18:46 to Crewe via the Weedon to run Fridays excepted. Still 18:49 on Fridays via Northampton. Presumably Virgin want the 18:46FO Euston to Preston to run? I would have thought it might be better for the whole timetable if this could be train moved to 18:36 / 18:37 departure instead.



Class 350/4s from TPE. Themselves being replaced at TPE with new Class 397 trains.

Do you know when they coming? Should it be here by May?

 

[Starmill]

18:46 to Crewe via the Weedon to run Fridays excepted. Still 18:49 on Fridays via Northampton. Presumably Virgin want the 18:46FO Euston to

Interesting point! Are any of the WMT stock workings likely to be different FO?

 

[snookertam]

I would hope a schedule is missing from Edinburgh. But why change the pattern in the evening if there is no 23:45? In any event there are some trains off pattern by a minute or two leaving Edinburgh. Also departures all day xx00 and xx30 from both cities seems a good marking / selling point - now lost.

Yep, exactly. The Edinburgh/Glasgow shuttle had been based on the 00 and 30 departures for as long as I can remember. Fair enough there's a15 minute frequency most of the day now but it does seem a bit of a strange move. The only benefits would be having a 15 interval 19:30 to 19:45 and allowing a 23:45 last departure. If the latter isn't provided then it is a bit of a pointless exercise. But given the extreme lengths that Abellio are going to mess everything up here I wouldn't put it past them. At times you begin to wonder if they are doing it on purpose.

 

[Ianno87]

There are also some strange timings on LM out of Euston in the evening.

18:46 to Crewe via the Weedon to run Fridays excepted. Still 18:49 on Fridays via Northampton. Presumably Virgin want the 18:46FO Euston to Preston to run? I would have thought it might be better for the whole timetable if this could be train moved to 18:36 / 18:37 departure instead.

Problem is, as the 1833 calls Rugby, it drops back into what would be the 1836/1837 path, which precedes the 1840 Manchester all the way to Stafford.

An 1846 moved forward to 1836 would have to make an additional stop at Milton Keynes to be overtaken by the 1840...which provably starts to diminish its benefit as a 'relief' train, especially if its full of Milton Keynes folks abstracted off the 1843!

 

[dk1]

Problem is, as the 1833 calls Rugby, it drops back into what would be the 1836/1837 path, which precedes the 1840 Manchester all the way to Stafford.

An 1846 moved forward to 1836 would have to make an additional stop at Milton Keynes to be overtaken by the 1840...which provably starts to diminish its benefit as a 'relief' train, especially if its full of Milton Keynes folks abstracted off the 1843!

Now that the peak restriction & its self inflicted rush has been lifted at Euston I wonder what the loadings are on the 18:46 FO & whether the 18:57 THFO Manchester is even neccesary.

 

[driver_m]

Now that the peak restriction & its self inflicted rush has been lifted at Euston I wonder what the loadings are on the 18:46 FO & whether the 18:57 THFO Manchester is even neccesary.

That's a very good point. Not worked any of the now unrestricted trains on Friday for a while so it'll be interesting to see what loadings are like now, as the xx33's were effectively Rugby commuter shifters.

 

[Class 170101]

Problem is, as the 1833 calls Rugby, it drops back into what would be the 1836/1837 path, which precedes the 1840 Manchester all the way to Stafford.

An 1846 moved forward to 1836 would have to make an additional stop at Milton Keynes to be overtaken by the 1840...which provably starts to diminish its benefit as a 'relief' train, especially if its full of Milton Keynes folks abstracted off the 1843!

I disagree because the 18:46 would remain albeit run by LM vice Virgin. The 18:46 gets overtaken by the 18:57 at Stafford so it only directly serves Milton Keynes, Rugby and Stafford. Milton Keynes and Rugby remain as they are.
18:33 would become 1st stop Stafford
18:36 would be 1st stop Rugby to be overtaken by the
18:40 Manchester. The 18:36 would then follow from Rugby instead of following from Stafford and possibly call at Tamworth and Lichfield instead of the Manchester train..
18:43 Crewe via Birmingham unchanged
18:46 Crewe via Trent Valley Planned to go inside at Rugby as per 16:46 and 17:46 allows 18:57 to pass)
18:52 Birmingham via Northampton (unchanged)
18:57 Manchester (unchanged)

 

[Ianno87]

I disagree because the 18:46 would remain albeit run by LM vice Virgin. The 18:46 gets overtaken by the 18:57 at Stafford so it only directly serves Milton Keynes, Rugby and Stafford. Milton Keynes and Rugby remain as they are.
18:33 would become 1st stop Stafford
18:36 would be 1st stop Rugby to be overtaken by the
18:40 Manchester. The 18:36 would then follow from Rugby instead of following from Stafford and possibly call at Tamworth and Lichfield instead of the Manchester train..
18:43 Crewe via Birmingham unchanged
18:46 Crewe via Trent Valley Planned to go inside at Rugby as per 16:46 and 17:46 allows 18:57 to pass)
18:52 Birmingham via Northampton (unchanged)
18:57 Manchester (unchanged)

Depends how that works with passenger loadings. Without Rugby, the 1833 might be a very quiet train...although it would reach Crewe without being overtaken by the 1840... so could take some Crewe load off that.

 

[43074]

The 2018 Leicester to Birmingham is now extended M-F to Gloucester (leaving Birmingham at 2130)

Presumably the unit which works this stables in Bristol overnight because there's also a 1L00 0613 Bristol Temple Meads to Stansted Airport(!), as an extension of the existing 0710 Gloucester to Stansted Airport.

 

[Ianno87]

Presumably the unit which works this stables in Bristol overnight because there's also a 1L00 0613 Bristol Temple Meads to Stansted Airport(!), as an extension of the existing 0710 Gloucester to Stansted Airport.

Now *that's* what I call a through train!

5 and a half hours on a 170, anyone?!