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May 2019 timetable changes

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Idon'tKnow

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The new Trent Valley timetable will be interesting.

Currently in the morning from Lichfield to Stafford we have a 0641, 0735, 0835 and 0917 then hourly
The new timetable shows a 0616 (very good for early connections) a 0702, 0802 and nothing until the 0918.
Passengers connecting from Chase line stations to Stafford (of which quite a lot do), they will now have a 36 minute wait at Rugeley trent valley for the 0809. I can see lots of these passengers simply driving or getting the bus to Stafford rather than waiting more than half an hour at a station which lacks basic facilities. On top of this, I think most passengers from the current 0735 from Lichfield and almost all passengers from the 0835 from Lichfield will get the 0802 from Lichfield after the timetable change, so I hope this will be an 8 carriage train, as the 0735 is fairly full and the 0835 always has a few standees from Rugeley at the moment.

The 76 minute gap between northbound services seems unacceptable, in my opinion it's a step backwards. I think most people would rather not have the 0615 service and instead have a service to Stafford and Crewe at around 0840.

Clearly the new Trent Valley line timetable shows who wmtrains cares about, the people travelling to London, not people making local/regional journeys.
 
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Bikeman78

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Are the timings/stopping patterns/frequencies from Birmingham to Rugeley much different compared to the current timetable?

And where did you get that information from? I couldn’t find anything that far ahead on Real Time Trains.
I looked at May 22 on real time trains. It's definitely there.
 

Bikeman78

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Does moving the xx:13 to xx:15 leave some sort of unused path in front of it? Does 110mph really save two minutes to Ledburn Junction?
Looks like it. The 350/2 are being upgraded to 110 mph so all fast line trains can be timed for 110.
 

Ianno87

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Does moving the xx:13 to xx:15 leave some sort of unused path in front of it? Does 110mph really save two minutes to Ledburn Junction?

Mathematically, 110 vs 100 saves 3 seconds per mile, so the distance to Ledburn (c.37 miles) should equate to 111 seconds. Say 5 miles to get up to speed from Euston reduces this to 96 seconds.

However, I dont think the xx13s are tight in front of the xx20s at Ledburn as it is. So 90 seconds from 110mph, plus 30 seconds from being tighter in front of the xx20 at Ledburn.
 

sd0733

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Having a look.at the Wcml LNR timings for a Sunday looks like a huge decrease in journey times as they no longer go via Stoke or Northampton but so.far no LNR service at all via Stoke on a Sunday.

In the week it looks as if at least some of the Trents are formed off the combined Rugeley to Euston and Liverpool to Birmingham trains so should be 8 car. Also one odd working an 0631 Liverpool to Rugeley in the week. Possibly more as not looked through every thing.
 
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sufian123

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Having a look.at the Wcml LNR timings for a Sunday looks like a huge decrease in journey times as they no longer go via Stoke or Northampton but so.far no LNR service at all via Stoke on a Sunday.

In the week it looks as if at least some of the Trents are formed off the combined Rugeley to Euston and Liverpool to Birmingham trains so should be 8 car. Also one odd working an 0631 Liverpool to Rugeley in the week. Possibly more as not looked through every thing.

Birmingham to Crewe via stoke takes over. I’m guessing Euston-Crewe is now non stop between Stafford and Crewe.
 

sd0733

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Birmingham to Crewe via stoke takes over. I’m guessing Euston-Crewe is now non stop between Stafford and Crewe.
Somehow I missed the bhm-crewe service showing, I think I was looking at passing times at Norton Bridge obviously they won't show there, school boy error!
Yes all cre-eus via Tamworth workings now via Madeley and Weedon
 

sufian123

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Somehow I missed the bhm-crewe service showing, I think I was looking at passing times at Norton Bridge obviously they won't show there, school boy error!
Yes all cre-eus via Tamworth workings now via Madeley and Weedon

No problem. M-S is London Euston-Crewe via Northampton, Birmingham and stoke.
 

bionic

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It looks like the 9W prefixed Euston trains leaving Crewe at xx01 via Stoke attach to the rear of the 1L prefixed Liverpool - Birminghams at New Street before continuing on to Euston via Northampton. So essentially there is a half hourly LNR service from Liverpool to Euston via New Street, it's just that one of them has an attachment and headcode change en route.
 

pt_mad

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Having a look.at the Wcml LNR timings for a Sunday looks like a huge decrease in journey times as they no longer go via Stoke or Northampton but so.far no LNR service at all via Stoke on a Sunday.

In the week it looks as if at least some of the Trents are formed off the combined Rugeley to Euston and Liverpool to Birmingham trains so should be 8 car. Also one odd working an 0631 Liverpool to Rugeley in the week. Possibly more as not looked through every thing.

Rugeley to Eustons? Starting at Rugeley Trent Valley?

Can it be worked out which workings are likely to be 8 car up and down the Trent Valley?
 

Deafdoggie

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The new Trent Valley timetable will be interesting.

Currently in the morning from Lichfield to Stafford we have a 0641, 0735, 0835 and 0917 then hourly
The new timetable shows a 0616 (very good for early connections) a 0702, 0802 and nothing until the 0918.
Passengers connecting from Chase line stations to Stafford (of which quite a lot do), they will now have a 36 minute wait at Rugeley trent valley for the 0809. I can see lots of these passengers simply driving or getting the bus to Stafford rather than waiting more than half an hour at a station which lacks basic facilities. On top of this, I think most passengers from the current 0735 from Lichfield and almost all passengers from the 0835 from Lichfield will get the 0802 from Lichfield after the timetable change, so I hope this will be an 8 carriage train, as the 0735 is fairly full and the 0835 always has a few standees from Rugeley at the moment.

The 76 minute gap between northbound services seems unacceptable, in my opinion it's a step backwards. I think most people would rather not have the 0615 service and instead have a service to Stafford and Crewe at around 0840.

Clearly the new Trent Valley line timetable shows who wmtrains cares about, the people travelling to London, not people making local/regional journeys.

If money were no object both Rugely trains (Euston & Birmingham) would be better extended to/from Stafford. There’s platform space there (6) and it avoids the trains needing to shunt around at Rugely between platforms. But I guess at least one extra train would be needed. Pathing might be an issue, but as it has to shunt around anyway, probably not.
 

Class 170101

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In the week it looks as if at least some of the Trents are formed off the combined Rugeley to Euston and Liverpool to Birmingham trains so should be 8 car. Also one odd working an 0631 Liverpool to Rugeley in the week. Possibly more as not looked through every thing.

06:31 ex Lime Street to Trent Valley forms 1Y28 to Euston both via Walsall and New Street.
 

Class 170101

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If money were no object both Rugely trains (Euston & Birmingham) would be better extended to/from Stafford. There’s platform space there (6) and it avoids the trains needing to shunt around at Rugely between platforms. But I guess at least one extra train would be needed. Pathing might be an issue, but as it has to shunt around anyway, probably not.

Whilst it would be worthwhile heading to / from Stafford I doubt you would be able to get across the layout from Up Slow / Fast to the single Line at Rugeley North Jn crossing Down Lines.

Secondly terminating trains don't shunt at Rugeley Trent Valley. They just terminate in the Bay Platform and go back as far as I can see.
 

Bletchleyite

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If money were no object both Rugely trains (Euston & Birmingham) would be better extended to/from Stafford. There’s platform space there (6) and it avoids the trains needing to shunt around at Rugely between platforms. But I guess at least one extra train would be needed. Pathing might be an issue, but as it has to shunt around anyway, probably not.

Paths are probably an issue for that.
 

Blytheski

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Looking at the St. Ives branch in Cornwall, it would appear that Lelant Saltings has been reduced to a 'parliamentary' service of one train in each direction, presumably with the opening of the St. Erth transport hub. Lelant Village now has regular calls instead.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LTS/2019/05/20/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
Looking at the St. Ives branch in Cornwall, it would appear that Lelant Saltings has been reduced to a 'parliamentary' service of one train in each direction, presumably with the opening of the St. Erth transport hub. Lelant Village now has regular calls instead.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LTS/2019/05/20/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Not sure if GWR times have been updated. I thorght Paignton to Exmouth was changing to every 30 mins from May?
 

Class 170101

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The new Trent Valley timetable will be interesting.

Currently in the morning from Lichfield to Stafford we have a 0641, 0735, 0835 and 0917 then hourly
The new timetable shows a 0616 (very good for early connections) a 0702, 0802 and nothing until the 0918.
Passengers connecting from Chase line stations to Stafford (of which quite a lot do), they will now have a 36 minute wait at Rugeley trent valley for the 0809. I can see lots of these passengers simply driving or getting the bus to Stafford rather than waiting more than half an hour at a station which lacks basic facilities. On top of this, I think most passengers from the current 0735 from Lichfield and almost all passengers from the 0835 from Lichfield will get the 0802 from Lichfield after the timetable change, so I hope this will be an 8 carriage train, as the 0735 is fairly full and the 0835 always has a few standees from Rugeley at the moment.

The 76 minute gap between northbound services seems unacceptable, in my opinion it's a step backwards. I think most people would rather not have the 0615 service and instead have a service to Stafford and Crewe at around 0840.

Clearly the new Trent Valley line timetable shows who wmtrains cares about, the people travelling to London, not people making local/regional journeys.

The 06:24 has been retimed to run via the Weedon instead Northampton but instead of leaving at 06:46 its leaving at 06:28 so is off pattern. Unfortunately currently the 06:46 Blackpool is in the slot. I would have thought it better for the LM train to run at 06:49.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Not sure if GWR times have been updated. I thorght Paignton to Exmouth was changing to every 30 mins from May?

The Exmouth-Paignton half hourly service is part of the major timetable enhancement which has been deferred to December 2019. As it requires the rest of the timetable and unit diagrams to be recast at the same time to be achievable, it can’t be done in isolation (unlike Plymouth-Penzance half-hourly which is happening in May, to a fashion.)
 

yorksrob

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Looking at the St. Ives branch in Cornwall, it would appear that Lelant Saltings has been reduced to a 'parliamentary' service of one train in each direction, presumably with the opening of the St. Erth transport hub. Lelant Village now has regular calls instead.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LTS/2019/05/20/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

That seems a little unusual, in that presumably the car park at Saltings is still in use. Will passengers be redirected on foot to St Erth perhaps.

That said, it will be nice to have the opportunity to visit Lelant.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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The new Trent Valley timetable will be interesting.

Currently in the morning from Lichfield to Stafford we have a 0641, 0735, 0835 and 0917 then hourly
The new timetable shows a 0616 (very good for early connections) a 0702, 0802 and nothing until the 0918.
Passengers connecting from Chase line stations to Stafford (of which quite a lot do), they will now have a 36 minute wait at Rugeley trent valley for the 0809. I can see lots of these passengers simply driving or getting the bus to Stafford rather than waiting more than half an hour at a station which lacks basic facilities. On top of this, I think most passengers from the current 0735 from Lichfield and almost all passengers from the 0835 from Lichfield will get the 0802 from Lichfield after the timetable change, so I hope this will be an 8 carriage train, as the 0735 is fairly full and the 0835 always has a few standees from Rugeley at the moment.

The 76 minute gap between northbound services seems unacceptable, in my opinion it's a step backwards. I think most people would rather not have the 0615 service and instead have a service to Stafford and Crewe at around 0840.

Clearly the new Trent Valley line timetable shows who wmtrains cares about, the people travelling to London, not people making local/regional journeys.
Whilst it's an improvement in some respects (e.g. some stations having an actual commutable service), as you've said, in other areas it's a veritable disappointment. I would say that the hotchpotch of headways between services, as well as the significant variability in the time taken to get to the main stations (i.e. Rugby/Stafford/Crewe/London), is the main issue.

I realise that maintaining a frequent and regular Pendolino service to all the destinations is likely the cause, together with the location of train stabling and crew booking-on points, but ultimately these are all operational matters. I would be surprised if WMT don't, ultimately, have the trains (and available paths, if they tried), to run a clockface timetable all day long. It's a good thing I don't rely on the Trent Valley line any more, it's just a disappointment in many ways, compared to what it could feasibly be.

I fear it's going to take at the very least until HS2 is in operation, and the current VHF base timetable is revised, for things to improve materially.
 

driver_m

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Seems am odd one to retime the xx13 off Euston to xx15. Is this because of a clash crossing over at Ledburn jn? The xx13 is invariably sat in or near Cheddington waiting for a late runner to pass on the up fast. (The WCRM should really have done Southern style flyover crossovers here to avoid the numerous clashes at this junction. Especially as Watford North Jn is still missing after god knows how many years of not being put in, but that's for another thread)
 

Syllopsium

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I see that non Friday weekday services after about half nine to Blackrod from Manchester will *still* be a rail replacement, despite all engineering works finished, and electrification being complete by that stage.

Is there not a breach of running a franchise to continually not run trains, when you're a train company? This has been about four years since there were late night trains, and I'm getting thoroughly sick of it. I can live with valid engineering reasons, but not 'we can't be arsed to pay people, or running your train isn't profitable enough'.
 

scrapy

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I see that non Friday weekday services after about half nine to Blackrod from Manchester will *still* be a rail replacement, despite all engineering works finished, and electrification being complete by that stage.

Is there not a breach of running a franchise to continually not run trains, when you're a train company? This has been about four years since there were late night trains, and I'm getting thoroughly sick of it. I can live with valid engineering reasons, but not 'we can't be arsed to pay people, or running your train isn't profitable enough'.
What date are you looking for? I don't think Northern have inputted any data for Blackrod services after the May timetable change. I can't see any data for buses either.
 

Syllopsium

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I was following the lead of other posters and using May, but try May 13th. There do appear to be Northern entries, or is this being automatically carried over from the previous period?

..ahh.. it's too early, isn't it? Blanks if I try a bit later.
 

BigVern

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There seems to be a lack of symmetry.
The Liverpool to Euston uses the slow after Milton Keynes, but the Euston to Liverpool uses the fast to Milton Keynes.
So there are 16 direct trains from Crewe to Hemel, but only 2 from Hemel to Crewe.
Is this covered by the splitting/joining at New Street?
If so I hope the published timetables do a better job than Realtime Trains (I accept this is not its intended use).

How many of these combined routes will be advertised as through journeys, and how they will be announced on the trains?
 

LOL The Irony

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Hopefully something comes of this.
https://www.knutsfordguardian.co.uk...ction-over-knutsford-to-manchester-rail-line/
Ms McVey said it was ‘completely unacceptable’ that the trains promised have been repeatedly delayed, and in the House of Commons she urged transport Ministers to act.

Speaking in Parliament during Transport Questions Ms McVey said: “Commuters have been repeatedly promised an upgrade to the Knutsford to Manchester line to two an hour.

“However, after excuses and procrastinations that is now not happening at the time it is meant to happen.

“This is unacceptable to have such an unreliable and irregular service for this busy part of the country.

“So can the Secretary of State intervene, speak to Northern, speak with Network Rail and get this promise fulfilled.”

Rail Minister Andrew Jones said: “I entirely agree that we want to see reliable services offering high capacity, and she [Ms McVey] speaks well on behalf of her constituency, and of course I will look into the matter and get back to her.”

After Northern won the Mid Cheshire Line franchise bid in 2015 it promised the extra train an hour, which was due to begin in December 2017.

Ms McVey added: “We are in a situation where we do not know when we will get the promised two trains an hour, and something needs to be done.

“A report out in October seemed to suggest that the extra service would only run between Chester and Altrincham.

“It is not acceptable, and I hope Andrew Jones looks into the matter quickly and has some answers.”
 

Starmill

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I fear it's going to take at the very least until HS2 is in operation, and the current VHF base timetable is revised, for things to improve materially.
Even then it's unclear what sort of improvements a case can be made for. How many people are going to commute from Lichfield to Stafford by rail? How many people would, if there were a direct half-hourly service? Long gaps are deeply frustrating, but the focus is strongly on improving the service from Lichfield, Tamworth and Nuneaton to London. The available rolling stock is focussed on this, not people going to Stafford. A long gap is pretty disappointing though. It could of course have been filled by a northbound morning VT service which has a call at Tamworth and Lichfield TV. Nuneaton has had one for a long time.

The new timetable generally delivers on these priorities, which are pretty significant given the lack of alternatives, and the number of people using them.

Incidentally it would appear that Northampton will lose one of its non-stop trains to London Euston, the 0716, as a result of these changes.
 
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