Should disabled users upgraded to first class receive the full first class offering?

[sw1ller]

They can’t really on any train unless half of them want to stand.

Quite easily do it on one of our spacious 150’s!

 

[anamyd]

I’m a bit confused as to what’s happened in the thread now. I wasn’t aware it was a merged thread when I posted this. If that was your original question then it’s a perfectly valid one. Hope no offence was taken.

It's from the Class 397 thread where someone mentioned that after looking at the seating plans the only wheelchair space was in First Class, no worries

 

[anamyd]

if I had any disability either mental or physical (thankfully I have neither)

"thankfully"...?

 

[duffield]

....
Isn’t it the case that technically railway staff on free passes can use first if their pass allows but generally must not avail themselves of the catering?

No, not generally true. It varies by TOC and changes over time. See:
https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/f...t/RST_Winter_2018-19_Restrictions_Booklet.pdf
For current details if interested.

 

[muz379]

There is some serious Shires pettiness and Little England curtain-twitch on this thread.

Give them the cup of tea and biscuit, and some respect... show some human kindness.

Would you willingly swap positions? First class (not a seat but a plot for their chair) and a free cuppa, for working legs? Oh how privileged they are!

I doubt it - so cut them some slack, and most importantly, mind your damn business.

Exactly , if I was working a train in this situation and somebody questioned why someone in a wheelchair was in first on a standard ticket and getting any complimentary offering that was specified for first class I would first tell them to mind their own business about what ticket someone else may or may not have , and then I would ask them about swapping places with the person in the chair .

 

[yorkie]

My original question was simply "how does the wheelchair space in First Class only work"...? Any merged thread title is nothing to do with me!

If you can think of a better title, go to Thread Tools at the top and choose one. Note that titles do need to be descriptive.

...I wasn’t aware it was a merged thread when I posted this....

It wasn't merged with another thread, but if anyone has any questions feel free to use the 'Contact Us' form at the bottom of each page.

 

[anamyd]

If you can think of a better title, go to Thread Tools at the top and choose one. Note that titles do need to be descriptive.

It wasn't merged with another thread, but if anyone has any questions feel free to use the 'Contact Us' form at the bottom of each page.

Thanks
Split

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Exactly , if I was working a train in this situation and somebody questioned why someone in a wheelchair was in first on a standard ticket and getting any complimentary offering that was specified for first class I would first tell them to mind their own business about what ticket someone else may or may not have , and then I would ask them about swapping places with the person in the chair .

And hopefully if employed by that TOC, you'd receive a warning for being so rude to passengers.

 

[tiptoptaff]

GWR's policy is free for wheelchair user + companion only. Any extras have to pay or sit separately. (There are common sense exceptions if it's parents/guardians/grandparents/etc travelling with children)
Ultimately, it's the wheelchair user they haven't provided for, not anyone else.

But this only applies to 5/10 car IET services. 9s and HSTs, plus units, it's carriage in class of ticket. Have seen a wheelchair passenger get very angry with staff because they "always get put in first class" while holding a STD ticket, and their reservation was A00 on a booked 9car IET, which duly turned up.

I don't know the policy, but I have never seen wheelchair passengers and companions not offered the first class offerings.

 

[muz379]

And hopefully if employed by that TOC, you'd receive a warning for being so rude to passengers.

I highly doubt it . Ive been reported for being "rude" in the past when I found a passenger had placed all their luggage in the wheelchair space and initially refused to move it to allow for a passenger in a wheelchair to board . I was pointedly blunt with said passenger and never denied being so at any point . Indeed there was actually body cam footage from another member of railway staff who was present in that instance .

Guess how that ended up after a "discussion" with a manager ?

Sometimes people will behave in such ways that you have to be blunt with them regardless of if some may consider this rude . This is part of the problem with this mantra of "the customer is always right" , at times it is way off the mark . I would never be rude to someone for no reason but I will take passengers as I find them , so if someone is unnecessarily rude and abusive to me whilst remaining professional and not lowering myself to becoming abusive I will be blunt with them , and if someone is unnecessarily abusive I certainly wont be going out of my way to help them .

I dont have to explain decisions made using my discretion to passengers , if someone is unhappy with a decision/situation arising as a result of a member of rail staff exercising discretion take it up with the company and the person can explain their decision to a manager who will actually have the necessary knowledge and experience to assess the use of that discretion .

 

[cjp]

@muz379 good answer.

 

[mmh]

Too many people seem to think good customer service and politeness means being obsequious and fawning over them.

There's nothing rude about telling someone something is none of their concern and to mind their own business.

 

[LowLevel]

Being drippingly polite at all times is a job for a butler not a railway worker. Sometimes being blunt is required. It's something I use sparingly but on occasions it's unfortunately required. Passengers are most definitely customers and deserve respect but in agreeing to pay for transport they agree to abide by the rules and the instructions of those working to transport them. Sometimes they forget that and polite requests fail.

 

[VT 390]

What happens if the only wheelchair spaces are in first class and standard class users have been upgraded and then someone with a first class ticket requires the space?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What happens if the only wheelchair spaces are in first class and standard class users have been upgraded and then someone with a first class ticket requires the space?

I don't believe I have ever seen a train where First Class was still in operation (i.e. not declassified, either officially or unofficially) where First Class was so packed with standing passengers that unless you removed a wheelchair from it you wouldn't get all the paying First Class passengers within its confines. Or do you mean the companion? That is an official upgrade and so they are a First Class passenger.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I don't believe I have ever seen a train where First Class was still in operation (i.e. not declassified, either officially or unofficially) where First Class was so packed with standing passengers that unless you removed a wheelchair from it you wouldn't get all the paying First Class passengers within its confines. Or do you mean the companion? That is an official upgrade and so they are a First Class passenger.

I think they mean STD wheelchair users have been upgraded and no 1st class wheelchair spaces are available, and a wheelchair user holding a 1st class ticket then wants to board

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think they mean STD wheelchairs have been upgraded and no 1st class wheelchair spaces are available, and a wheelchair user holding a 1st class ticket then wants to board

The first passenger has been upgraded (as a "reasonable adjustment" due to the lack of required Standard wheelchair space), therefore is a First Class passenger.

 

[JamesT]

I don't believe I have ever seen a train where First Class was still in operation (i.e. not declassified, either officially or unofficially) where First Class was so packed with standing passengers that unless you removed a wheelchair from it you wouldn't get all the paying First Class passengers within its confines. Or do you mean the companion? That is an official upgrade and so they are a First Class passenger.

I’m reading it as what happens if a wheelchair passenger with a First Class ticket appears after the wheelchair spaces have been occupied by upgraded Standard wheelchairs.
To which I guess the answer is they have as much chance as anyone else for the seats. No different if there were already two First Class wheelchair ticket holders in those spaces.I assume if someone has reserved a wheelchair space, someone won’t be able to take it earlier if they’d have to give it up later.

 

[cjp]

What happens if the only wheelchair spaces are in first class and standard class users have been upgraded and then someone with a first class ticket requires the space?

Why do people on here so like playing the "what if game"
How about simply assuming that rail staff on the ground can cope and come to and equitable solution rather than worrying a bone to death with possible but unlikely scenarios ?

 

[pt_mad]

There was a recent road show at various depots showing the new 1st class offering and it was alot more than tea and biscuits. Lots of nice new complimentary drinks and food.

Is there a Pullman dining service on an IET working?

 

[LowLevel]

Why do people on here so like playing the "what if game"
How about simply assuming that rail staff on the ground can cope and come to and equitable solution rather than worrying a bone to death with possible but unlikely scenarios ?

We do usually manage though sometimes it goes wrong. The key is usually acknowledging the latter and sorting it out.

 

[mmh]

Why do people on here so like playing the "what if game"
How about simply assuming that rail staff on the ground can cope and come to and equitable solution rather than worrying a bone to death with possible but unlikely scenarios ?

Quite. I wish some posters could get away from this idea that if you're in a wheelchair on a train that can only accommodate wheelchairs in a first class carriage you're somehow lucky to be allowed in the hallowed domain of the first class passenger.

It's obviously wrong too to suggest that wheelchair users just "turn up", other than on a tiny proportion of the network, that's physically impossible.

 

[GW43125]

Is there a Pullman dining service on an IET working?

As of Friday 15/02, weekdays
16:00 Penzance-Paddington (from Plymouth), 10 car 802.
12:03 Paddington-Penzance (presumably as far as Plymouth), 10 car 802.
18:03 Paddington-Penzance (as far as Plymouth), 10 car 802, splits Plymouth.
05:59 Swansea-Paddington, 9 car 800
10:45 Paddington-Swansea, 10 car 800 (why 10:45 though?)

Obviously, currently up the wall due to Whiteball closure.

 

[pt_mad]

As of Friday 15/02, weekdays
16:00 Penzance-Paddington (from Plymouth), 10 car 802.
12:03 Paddington-Penzance (presumably as far as Plymouth), 10 car 802.
18:03 Paddington-Penzance (as far as Plymouth), 10 car 802, splits Plymouth.
05:59 Swansea-Paddington, 9 car 800
10:45 Paddington-Swansea, 10 car 800 (why 10:45 though?)

Obviously, currently up the wall due to Whiteball closure.

Thanks. Is the dining in first class? If so I'd imagine a wheelchair user who had been upgraded would also be offered the full compliments?

 

[LowLevel]

Thanks. Is the dining in first class? If so I'd imagine a wheelchair user who had been upgraded would also be offered the full compliments?

Only if they pay for it like anyone else - it's a restaurant on rails and isn't complimentary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's obviously wrong too to suggest that wheelchair users just "turn up", other than on a tiny proportion of the network, that's physically impossible.

Eh? It's possible to do so on any non-DOO train at any station where they can get on the platform. And why should they not?

 

[Esker-pades]

It's obviously wrong too to suggest that wheelchair users just "turn up", other than on a tiny proportion of the network, that's physically impossible.

See that's discriminatory. An able bodied person can just turn up at a station and get on a train. Full equality means that a physically disabled person should be able to as well.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Only if they pay for it like anyone else - it's a restaurant on rails and isn't complimentary.

Indeed. It is available to anyone on board, regardless of class of ticket held, if they pay

 

[pt_mad]

Indeed. It is available to anyone on board, regardless of class of ticket held, if they pay

Which coach is the dining service in on an IET though that's what I'm getting at? First-class or do they take orders from seated customers in standard?

 

[pt_mad]

Only if they pay for it like anyone else - it's a restaurant on rails and isn't complimentary.

Don't they serve a hot meal on VTWC that is complimentary? That's why I ask as I assumed it was the same sort of arrangement.