EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Bantamzen]

I think the EU have responded by allowing to May 23rd.

Yep, that appears to be the case. Even less time for this utterly broken government & Parliament to screw things over for us all. If a second referendum or GE are not going to be an option, and with just two months they most certainly are not, then I'm sorry to say that we simply cannot allow the UK to crash it's way back decades for some ill-conceived belief that we (the people) will have any more say in the running of this country if decisions are made in Brussels or Whitehall. If a revised deal cannot be made in this time, then the A50 enactment legalisation must be repealed & the Brexit issue reset to day one or completely removed off the table.

This won't please leave supporters, but frankly they have themselves to blame because few tried to formulate & insist on a cohesive, single strategy that they could all get behind. And remain supports get off no lighter, because they did not make clear enough arguments to remain in the EU, rather getting stuck into the slanging match that became the Brexit "debate". What a mess, an utter, utter mess!!

Stop the world someone, I want to get off....

 

[Howardh]

May May's Maydate be the end of May?

 

[Kite159]

Does that mean folk have to wait 2 more months before they can get a glorious blue (French made) passport?

I see Steptoe is still up to his usual tricks of attempting to anything to force an election in a vague attempt to get into power.

 

[Bantamzen]

May May's Maydate be the end of May?

I've just realised my wife & I will be in Spain on 23/05/19. Must brush up on my Spanish, we may be there for a while....

Does that mean folk have to wait 2 more months before they can get a glorious blue (French made) passport?

I see Steptoe is still up to his usual tricks of attempting to anything to force an election in a vague attempt to get into power.

Ah yes, Le passeport bleu! Funnily enough I'll be one of the first to get one as I have only six months left in June this year. Can't wait to wave it about abroad and have people fall at my feet as some Brexiteers imagine. Or as it really will be, stand in ever lengthening queues at immigration queue tutting loudly...

 

[dosxuk]

Does that mean folk have to wait 2 more months before they can get a glorious blue (French made) passport?

I see Steptoe is still up to his usual tricks of attempting to anything to force an election in a vague attempt to get into power.

Including refusing to discuss a second referendum in a meeting requested by all the other opposition parties to discuss a second referendum. Although at least he turned up to this meeting I suppose...

 

[Howardh]

We should stay in the EU, but tell everyone we've left, and they'd never notice the difference. Life would go on, and everyone would be happy.

 

[bramling]

We should stay in the EU, but tell everyone we've left, and they'd never notice the difference.

They might notice in the future if vacant space near them gets built on or there’s water rationing!

Actually we already do have water rationing since the drive to get people on meters, in come cases compulsorily.

 

[Clip]

Indeed - whats going to happen now is that the usual suspects who told us that predictions of job losses as a result of Brexit were all "project fear" will now claim that the actual job losses as result of Brexit are "nothing to do with Brexit". They will claim that they know more about the reasons behind these closures that the companies actually making the closures.



They are moving production to Japan which has just signed a free trade agreement with, guess who, the EU.

Well done everyone.

Toyota to build new car in the UK

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-suzuki-car-model-uk-production-a8831601.html

Toyota will make a new electric hybrid car at its Derbyshire plant. The announcement is a rare a piece of good news for car production in the UK which has seen a host of manufacturers move work abroad.

The Japanese carmaker will produce a new Suzuki model at the site in Burnaston which employs around 2,600 people and produced 129,000 cars last year.


The company expects production numbers rise as it rolls out the new model later this year. Engines are to be supplied by Toyota’s factory in Deeside, North Wales, using components from Japan, the company said.

Good work Derby Management

 

[Bletchleyite]

They might notice in the future if vacant space near them gets built on or there’s water rationing!

Actually we already do have water rationing since the drive to get people on meters, in come cases compulsorily.

What's that got to do with the EU?

 

[edwin_m]

What's that got to do with the EU?

Nothing whatever, but some Brexiteer will no doubt find a way of blaming them for it.

 

[bramling]

What's that got to do with the EU?

When I received the notification of compulsory change to water meters, the letter clearly stated that supply was under pressure due to "rising population". I wonder where a few million people have come from?

 

[Bletchleyite]

When I received the notification of compulsory change to water meters, the letter clearly stated that supply was under pressure due to "rising population". I wonder where a few million people have come from?

Various places, not just the EU.

And that won't reduce with Brexit, more of them will just be non-EU as the playing field is levelled, because we will need one or more of the following:
1. Increase in retirement age to 75 or even higher
2. British people and those already here to have more kids
3. Immigration
4. Heavy cuts to NHS and later life care

Pensions and healthcare funding are basically pyramid schemes - they rely on an increasing working population to work.

 

[radamfi]

When I received the notification of compulsory change to water meters, the letter clearly stated that supply was under pressure due to "rising population". I wonder where a few million people have come from?

Population of the UK nearly doubled in the century before the UK joined the EU, so you should be blaming the high population density on our ancestors who kept popping babies out at a great rate.

 

[Howardh]

When I received the notification of compulsory change to water meters, the letter clearly stated that supply was under pressure due to "rising population". I wonder where a few million people have come from?

Countries that aren't in the EU. https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/ link to table of rising non-EU and falling EU immigration.

You've fallen head-first into that one! If we really wanted to reduce the rate of immigration, we'd start with the rest of the world (which apparently we have "control" over) and leave the EU as it is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Countries that aren't in the EU. https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/ link to table of rising non-EU and falling EU immigration.

You've fallen head-first into that one! If we really wanted to reduce the rate of immigration, we'd start with the rest of the world (which apparently we have "control" over) and leave the EU as it is.

Or use the controls we have (but don't use) as part of our EU membership.

 

[EM2]

So the EU have said no short extension unless Commons votes for May’s deal. I suspect that would be enough of a material difference to allow a third meaningful vote.
But if that third vote fails, then:
No short extension
No leaving with no deal
No May deal
Which means revocation of A50, or a long extension.
And both would mean European elections.

 

[fowler9]

Yep, that appears to be the case. Even less time for this utterly broken government & Parliament to screw things over for us all. If a second referendum or GE are not going to be an option, and with just two months they most certainly are not, then I'm sorry to say that we simply cannot allow the UK to crash it's way back decades for some ill-conceived belief that we (the people) will have any more say in the running of this country if decisions are made in Brussels or Whitehall. If a revised deal cannot be made in this time, then the A50 enactment legalisation must be repealed & the Brexit issue reset to day one or completely removed off the table.

This won't please leave supporters, but frankly they have themselves to blame because few tried to formulate & insist on a cohesive, single strategy that they could all get behind. And remain supports get off no lighter, because they did not make clear enough arguments to remain in the EU, rather getting stuck into the slanging match that became the Brexit "debate". What a mess, an utter, utter mess!!

Stop the world someone, I want to get off....

I don't see why remainers get off no lighter. Surely if you want to completely change the way the country does business Internationally the onus is on you to prove it will be in some way better. Everyone knows how it works now.

 

[bramling]

So the EU have said no short extension unless Commons votes for May’s deal. I suspect that would be enough of a material difference to allow a third meaningful vote.
But if that third vote fails, then:
No short extension
No leaving with no deal
No May deal
Which means revocation of A50, or a long extension.
And both would mean European elections.

So parliament is going to have to choose between TM's deal or no deal, which is really the choice they've faced all along but have tried everything to skirt around. Of course Bercow's intervention has complicated this, but presumably it would be considered enough of a change thanks to the EU's ultimatum.

For once I'm actually on the EU's side over this, someone needed to take the initiative and force the issue, to put an end to the dithering.

So there's now three routes (assuming the Bercow curved ball can be worked round):
(1) Approve TM's deal and we leave in June
(2) Reject TM's deal and leave with no deal (presumably on 29th March)
(3) Reject TM's deal, no deal becomes default, and Britain revokes A50, then goodness knows what happens.

All this assumes TM isn't planning to resign this evening or something else up her sleeve.

Of course, depending on when a vote on TM's deal can be arranged, this wouldn't leave much time to revoke A50.

 

[Howardh]

So now it's clearer. Tusk says May can only have an extension if it's because the deal's gone through. May's calling in the opposition - it's either support her deal or no deal.
They will do that, naturally.
The country's been shafted by all this can-kicking to get a deal that no-one except the PM wants which has been thrown out of parliament twice, or a no-deal which parliament has also thrown out.
Hope everyone's delighted. We've all got what we didn't want.

 

[bramling]

So now it's clearer. Tusk says May can only have an extension if it's because the deal's gone through. May's calling in the opposition - it's either support her deal or no deal.
They will do that, naturally.
The country's been shafted by all this can-kicking to get a deal that no-one except the PM wants which has been thrown out of parliament twice, or a no-deal which parliament has also thrown out.
Hope everyone's delighted. We've all got what we didn't want.

I still wouldn't bank my life savings on the house voting for it!

 

[fowler9]

Personally I reckon in just over a week's time we are getting kicked out. I reckon they'll be asking us not to let the door hit our ar*e on the way out. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[edwin_m]

So the vote to take back control from the EU ends up with the EU blackmailing Parliament to vote for something almost nobody wants and has previously been voted down in the biggest government defeat in history. All because May has failed to pay any attention to any opinion other than the swivel-eyed lunatics of the ERG - and Corbyn isn't much better than a mirror image.

 

[bramling]

Personally I reckon in just over a week's time we are getting kicked out. I reckon they'll be asking us not to let the door hit our ar*e on the way out. Hope I'm wrong.

I'm not sure we're *quite* there yet, but it seems to be heading that way. It really depends on how much that £39bn means to them, as you said elsewhere it's not a massive amount in government terms let alone EU terms.

I'd say the only certainty at the moment is that May is toast sooner rather than later.

Ironically, May's deal hasn't really had that much of an airing in public because of all the fuss over the backstop.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I reckon in just over a week's time we are getting kicked out. I reckon they'll be asking us not to let the door hit our ar*e on the way out. Hope I'm wrong.

I'm hoping that they will come up with something like "a binding referendum or get lost".

 

[fowler9]

So the vote to take back control from the EU ends up with the EU blackmailing Parliament to vote for something almost nobody wants and has previously been voted down in the biggest government defeat in history. All because May has failed to pay any attention to any opinion other than the swivel-eyed lunatics of the ERG - and Corbyn isn't much better than a mirror image.

Look mate I am a remainer so to you I may seem biased but in no way are we being blackmailed by the EU. We can have no deal and walk away whenever we want. There is no way that the EU are going to give us a better deal than everyone else. They have to look out for the best interests of the member states. I don't think the EU is perfect, the whole world needs to change.

 

[fowler9]

I'm not sure we're *quite* there yet, but it seems to be heading that way. It really depends on how much that £39bn means to them, as you said elsewhere it's not a massive amount in government terms let alone EU terms.

I'd say the only certainty at the moment is that May is toast sooner rather than later.

Ironically, May's deal hasn't really had that much of an airing in public because of all the fuss over the backstop.

True. Ha ha. She had a good run. I hope for everyone she leaves a good legacy because otherwise she will be an eternal joke and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

[Bantamzen]

I don't see why remainers get off no lighter. Surely if you want to completely change the way the country does business Internationally the onus is on you to prove it will be in some way better. Everyone knows how it works now.

Its because the remain campaign got too involved in the slanging match that was the so-called debate. Had they simply stuck to the facts of EU membership they may have attracted those million or so more votes that would have swung it. And then this mess may not have happened in the first place. As someone who started on the fence, and ended up not voting because of the nonsensical debate, I blame both sides for this situation.

 

[Howardh]

I still wouldn't bank my life savings on the house voting for it!

Lisa Nandy - Labour - has put forward some kind of motion/amendment that to get Labour's vote they must include the opposition in the next negotiations on our future relationship. So despite the withdrawl bill; we could still negotiate membership of the customs union and single market, meaning we don't lose our freedom of movement. It was on Sky news so no link (yet).

May has backed herself into such a corner she may have to accept this as the way through.

 

[Howardh]

Look mate I am a remainer so to you I may seem biased but in no way are we being blackmailed by the EU. We can have no deal and walk away whenever we want. There is no way that the EU are going to give us a better deal than everyone else. They have to look out for the best interests of the member states. I don't think the EU is perfect, the whole world needs to change.

Wouldn't it be nice if we were one of those member states?

 

[bramling]

True. Ha ha. She had a good run. I hope for everyone she leaves a good legacy because otherwise she will be an eternal joke and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

History will probably judge her better than she is currently being judged at the moment. I do feel for her, she has visibly aged since becoming PM. Unfortunately reality seems to be that she was promoted above her ability, no doubt thanks to being "none of the above" at the right time and place. Still, to be fair she deserves some credit for taking the challenge on. Her sore heel is her communication and influencing skills - unfortunately they're simply non existent.