First Greater Glasgow

[ScotRail158725]

If the new Enviro 400s are 13'8 like Jordan said then they would fit easily on the 6 as the bridge at Busby is 13'9.

With an inch to spare what about that tree guard? Is that included in the height or is it additional?

 

[Aidan1]

If the new Enviro 400s are 13'8 like Jordan said then they would fit easily on the 6 as the bridge at Busby is 13'9.

The new deckers are 13’10, well the Blantyre 18 ones are anyway, the 65 plates are 14’2

 

[GaryMcEwan]

The new deckers are 13’10, well the Blantyre 18 ones are anyway, the 65 plates are 14’2

Are the 75's 14'2 as well? They've all got 'HB' are the fleet number and so have the SK68 plated E400s that Blantyre have got for the 18.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Are the 75's 14'2 as well? They've all got 'HB' are the fleet number and so have the SK68 plated E400s that Blantyre have got for the 18.

They're low height, you can tell by the posting of the destination display. I've put examples in the spoiler below...

Spoiler: Enviro400MMC Heights

Low height...




Full height...


The different in height is most noticeable with the gap under the destination display.
Full height (left) & Low height (Right)

The new deckers are 13’10, well the Blantyre 18 ones are anyway, the 65 plates are 14’2

Official heights are 13"7.7' and 14"1.1', however it wouldn't surprised me if those heights you listed are what is stated in the cab.

 

[Volvodart]

I think the HB was put on them in error..

 

[CM]

They're low height, you can tell by the posting of the destination display. I've put examples in the spoiler below...

Spoiler: Enviro400MMC Heights

Low height...
View attachment 60701
View attachment 60705
View attachment 60704

Full height...
View attachment 60702

The different in height is most noticeable with the gap under the destination display.
Full height (left) & Low height (Right)
View attachment 60706

Official heights are 13"7.7' and 14"1.1', however it wouldn't surprised me if those heights you listed are what is stated in the cab.

They're low height, you can tell by the posting of the destination display. I've put examples in the spoiler below...

Spoiler: Enviro400MMC Heights

Low height...
View attachment 60701
View attachment 60705
View attachment 60704

Full height...
View attachment 60702

The different in height is most noticeable with the gap under the destination display.
Full height (left) & Low height (Right)
View attachment 60706

Official heights are 13"7.7' and 14"1.1', however it wouldn't surprised me if those heights you listed are what is stated in the cab.

I suspect that ADL/First don't know how to use a measuring tape as this photo shows both and Oxford and Stagecoach MMC having just gone under the bridge at Botley Road in Oxford which on Google maps is 13'6 - https://flic.kr/p/JXXHQw

 

[Jordan Adam]

I suspect that ADL/First don't know how to use a measuring tape as this photo shows both and Oxford and Stagecoach MMC having just gone under the bridge at Botley Road in Oxford which on Google maps is 13'6 - https://flic.kr/p/JXXHQw

The listed bridge heights tend to be rounded down to the "nearest 3". For example a 13'8 bridge will be stated as 13'6. This could also be why the low height E400MMCs state 13'9 in the cab. Despite that it strikes me as odd that they'd allow a E400MMC under a bridge listed as 13'6 (regardless of if it is actually that).

 

[Gingerbus1991]

The listed bridge heights tend to be rounded down to the "nearest 3". For example a 13'8 bridge will be stated as 13'6. This could also be why the low height E400MMCs state 13'9 in the cab. Despite that it strikes me as odd that they'd allow a E400MMC under a bridge listed as 13'6 (regardless of if it is actually that).

This still sits rather oddly with me, for any reason suspension leveling Is to produce a fault, its not unseen that suspension can float north.

Ive never taken note but does the lower height mean less headroom inside the upper saloon, even if it is only a few inches.

Bringing us back to the issue with Busby’s Low Bridge, the safest option would certainly be Artics.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

This still sits rather oddly with me, for any reason suspension leveling Is to produce a fault, its not unseen that suspension can float north.

Ive never taken note but does the lower height mean less headroom inside the upper saloon, even if it is only a few inches.

Bringing us back to the issue with Busby’s Low Bridge, the safest option would certainly be Artics.

There’s 100% no way First will ever order artics again. They tried them before and they always ended up getting punted to London or Aberdeen. Glasgow streets are not built for bendys sadly. Unless they had more bus friendly areas in the city centre (ie less twists and turns and more go through areas) it would never work. Also they do not use the rear entrances to avoid fare dodgers so that doesn’t work either like it does in places like London so waste of time you need to walk down the long aisle to get off the bus which can be difficult during peak times!

 

[Jordan Adam]

There’s 100% no way First will ever order artics again. They tried them before and they always ended up getting punted to London or Aberdeen. Glasgow streets are not built for bendys sadly. Unless they had more bus friendly areas in the city centre (ie less twists and turns and more go through areas) it would never work. Also they do not use the rear entrances to avoid fare dodgers so that doesn’t work either like it does in places like London so waste of time you need to walk down the long aisle to get off the bus which can be difficult during peak times!

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if First bought more Artics in the future, there's a few places (such as Aberdeen) where realistically speaking they're the only workable option. E500s for a start are too small for peak runs to RGU.

 

[SarahDFIG]

Few B10BLEs awaiting there fate at Blantyre Depot

1 or 2 going to Dumbarton Depot.

E300s from the 77 going to caley but not sure if they are all going.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if First bought more Artics in the future, there's a few places (such as Aberdeen) where realistically speaking they're the only workable option. E500s for a start are too small for peak runs to RGU.

I seem to have this notion to believe that the bendys were pretty unreliable around Glasgow if I’m right. The B10LAs were nice buses. The B7LAs perhaps not so much. They definitely added variety to the fleet.

I wonder who they would go with to design a reliable, eco friendly bendy. I wonder if ADL would offer something or if Wright would try and release a more up to date product. I can’t really think of many new designs for bendy buses except for the Merc Citato.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I seem to have this notion to believe that the bendys were pretty unreliable around Glasgow if I’m right. The B10LAs were nice buses. The B7LAs perhaps not so much. They definitely added variety to the fleet.

I wonder who they would go with to design a reliable, eco friendly bendy. I wonder if ADL would offer something or if Wright would try and release a more up to date product. I can’t really think of many new designs for bendy buses except for the Merc Citato.

The later B7LAs were much better to be fair, we don't really have any issues with reliability these days. 10044/45/108 were also pretty reliable when with us. I suspect the issue with Glasgows bendies was perhaps down to maintenance practices there at the time.

Wright could possibly introduce the Wright Eclipse 3 body on the B8RLEA chassis sold in the Australian market. However for them to make a move they'd need certainty that an operator would buy a decent amount of them. ADL on the other hand will just blatantly refuse to build any artics and point operators towards the Enviro400XLB which is unsuitable for the route of the 1 in Aberdeen.

I hear that First Bath are converting their Artics to Euro 6 with new engines, perhaps an option Aberdeen could follow.

It's a shame ADL won't develop a bendy as a "Enviro600" with the Cummins ISL engine mated to a ZF Ecolife transmission would probably be quite a good product, it would perhaps allow them to get a stronger footing in mainland Europe too.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

The later B7LAs were much better to be fair, we don't really have any issues with reliability these days. 10044/45/108 were also pretty reliable when with us. I suspect the issue with Glasgows bendies was perhaps down to maintenance practices there at the time.

Wright could possibly introduce the Wright Eclipse 3 body on the B8RLEA chassis sold in the Australian market. However for them to make a move they'd need certainty that an operator would buy a decent amount of them. ADL on the other hand will just blatantly refuse to build any artics and point operators towards the Enviro400XLB which is unsuitable for the route of the 1 in Aberdeen.

I hear that First Bath are converting their Artics to Euro 6 with new engines, perhaps an option Aberdeen could follow.

It's a shame ADL won't develop a bendy as a "Enviro600" with the Cummins ISL engine mated to a ZF Ecolife transmission would probably be quite a good product, it would perhaps allow them to get a stronger footing in mainland Europe too.

Heavy Artics and Tri-Axle deckers dont appeal to many operators in the UK mainly because of there extra fuel needed and as you said unsuitability for some routes not to mention the maintence on there Fifth Wheel and the fact a normal 4x2 decker can be had with long wheels bases, worth a mention though is ADLs 12.8m e500 with rear axle steering, this could potentially work in Aberdeen? Like I've said with Euro6 RHDs being used in Hongkong now, they could easily be re-certified for UK use.

However if ADL had to develop some sort of Medium-Duty Artic, maybe a 200XLA(Extra Long Artic), I certainly think this would appeal more to operators in the UK who are faced with low bridges etc whilst gaining fuel efficiencies through a lighter vehicle, Cummins already have the 6.7ltr up to 300hp/1200nm which could certainly cope with a GVM 18t bendy.

I only say this as ADL have built the 200XLB for Auckland.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Heavy Artics and Tri-Axle deckers dont appeal to many operators in the UK mainly because of there extra fuel needed and as you said unsuitability for some routes not to mention the maintence on there Fifth Wheel and the fact a normal 4x2 decker can be had with long wheels bases, worth a mention though is ADLs 12.8m e500 with rear axle steering, this could potentially work in Aberdeen? Like I've said with Euro6 RHDs being used in Hongkong now, they could easily be re-certified for UK use.

However if ADL had to develop some sort of Medium-Duty Artic, maybe a 200XLA(Extra Long Artic), I certainly think this would appeal more to operators in the UK who are faced with low bridges etc whilst gaining fuel efficiencies through a lighter vehicle, Cummins already have the 6.7ltr up to 300hp/1200nm which could certainly cope with a GVM 18t bendy.

The issue with Tri-axles in Aberdeen is the tight turns/weird angles of the road at RGU and in Bridge Of Don, not to mention because the fleet is only about 150 vehicles you need the vehicles to be versatile, for example the E500s are cleared for all routes while the artics are cleared for everything except the 19 and 20.

I'm not too sure if a 12.8M E500 with rear steering would manage the turn at Balgownie (Streetview's wide angle camera lenses doesn't really show how narrow/tight it is and the weird angle it's at), often you get buses meet there. Thankfully with the Artics brilliant turning circle there's never really been any issues there except in the snow. The E500s get round fine too, although on occasion you can feel the body vibrate as the rear tyres scrub the surface.

In general the 1/2 is an awkward route to work around, you need the larger capacity of an artic to cope with loading's between St Machar and RGU, however the E500s are more suited to the long runs to Danestone/Ashwood. Personally i'd put Artics on the 1/1A with E500s on the 2.

Just for reference the turn here at RGU would be another possible problem point for longer tri-axle deckers (loss of traction, narrow etc), again Streetview doesn't truly show how steep/tight it is. Less of an issue but the turning circle at Ashwood can't facilitate a rigid bus longer than 12M either.

Yes you'd probably by right regarding it being named something like Enviro200XLA (if it were to happen).

 

[awsnews]

Few B10BLEs awaiting there fate at Blantyre Depot

1 or 2 going to Dumbarton Depot.

E300s from the 77 going to caley but not sure if they are all going.

61600 was working the 1C on Friday so has presumably already moved to Dumbarton. I would expect the transfers in to release Solo 50461 and Dart 43870 back to Scotstoun.

 

[alangla]

The listed bridge heights tend to be rounded down to the "nearest 3". For example a 13'8 bridge will be stated as 13'6. This could also be why the low height E400MMCs state 13'9 in the cab. Despite that it strikes me as odd that they'd allow a E400MMC under a bridge listed as 13'6 (regardless of if it is actually that).

Was there not some jiggery pokery involving low profile tyres needed to get the L plate Olympians under Busby bridge? Even at that, I’m not sure if they “officially” fitted, even though in practice they did

 

[lastbus]

61600 was working the 1C on Friday so has presumably already moved to Dumbarton. I would expect the transfers in to release Solo 50461 and Dart 43870 back to Scotstoun.

61600 has indeed already moved. 66282 withdrawn awaiting collection by new owner.

 

[CM]

Was there not some jiggery pokery involving low profile tyres needed to get the L plate Olympians under Busby bridge? Even at that, I’m not sure if they “officially” fitted, even though in practice they did

The K-SDS/L-UNS/L-USU Olympians operated on the 66 even when they had their standard profile tyres - https://flic.kr/p/28M5eDA

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The later B7LAs were much better to be fair, we don't really have any issues with reliability these days. 10044/45/108 were also pretty reliable when with us. I suspect the issue with Glasgows bendies was perhaps down to maintenance practices there at the time.

Wright could possibly introduce the Wright Eclipse 3 body on the B8RLEA chassis sold in the Australian market. However for them to make a move they'd need certainty that an operator would buy a decent amount of them. ADL on the other hand will just blatantly refuse to build any artics and point operators towards the Enviro400XLB which is unsuitable for the route of the 1 in Aberdeen.

I hear that First Bath are converting their Artics to Euro 6 with new engines, perhaps an option Aberdeen could follow.

It's a shame ADL won't develop a bendy as a "Enviro600" with the Cummins ISL engine mated to a ZF Ecolife transmission would probably be quite a good product, it would perhaps allow them to get a stronger footing in mainland Europe too.

B8RLEA in Eclispe 3 body sounds like something I’d like to see. I suppose giving they could design in Euro 6 spec engine and keep it fairly viable to run then I see no reason why not. I believe that was another criticism was heavy fuel consumption. Something which the E500s were also a nightmare with. Down in Glasgow they weren’t used on Sundays in order to keep fuel consumption to a low. I also feel that’s one of the main reasons they moved them to Aberdeen. 1 to meet capacity and replace the older bendys and 2 because they were so heavy on fuel in a Glasgow alongside their massive fleet in comparison to Aberdeen which is much smaller.

Bendies would definately be the answer on some routes. 2, 60 and 61 would also benefit from something like that if they were reliable and maintained well. Adds a different mix into the fleet too. Something First may hopefully look into.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

This is the new 500 deckers

Is it just me or do the airport deckers have front and back facing seats? Almost like they’re round a table on the top deck?

 

[Jordan Adam]

B8RLEA in Eclispe 3 body sounds like something I’d like to see. I suppose giving they could design in Euro 6 spec engine and keep it fairly viable to run then I see no reason why not. I believe that was another criticism was heavy fuel consumption. Something which the E500s were also a nightmare with. Down in Glasgow they weren’t used on Sundays in order to keep fuel consumption to a low. I also feel that’s one of the main reasons they moved them to Aberdeen. 1 to meet capacity and replace the older bendys and 2 because they were so heavy on fuel in a Glasgow alongside their massive fleet in comparison to Aberdeen which is much smaller.

Bendies would definately be the answer on some routes. 2, 60 and 61 would also benefit from something like that if they were reliable and maintained well. Adds a different mix into the fleet too. Something First may hopefully look into.

The reason the E500s were so heavy on fuel was due to the A/C, Now that it's been turned off and replaced with conventional box heater units and hopper windows they're not too bad.
The B8RLEA chassis is already offered in RHD form (Australia), so it would take very little to get it to UK standards, the bulk of the development work would be in the body.

 

[SarahDFIG]

Is it just me or do the airport deckers have front and back facing seats? Almost like they’re round a table on the top deck?

I can confirm they do have tables on the top deck and the seating is the same colour as before. black and purple

 

[Robertj21a]

The reason the E500s were so heavy on fuel was due to the A/C, Now that it's been turned off and replaced with conventional box heater units and hopper windows they're not too bad.
The B8RLEA chassis is already offered in LHD form (Australia), so it would take very little to get it to UK standards, the bulk of the development work would be in the body.

Australia drives on the same side of the road as the UK....

 

[Jordan Adam]

Australia drives on the same side of the road as the UK....

I know, i meant to say RHD rather than LHD...
Typo corrected!

 

[JumpinTrainz]

It sounds like a practical idea but I don’t see it happening. Nowadays First seem intent in what works well - E400MMCs and E200MMCs.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

New E400MMC on the 77 today. They look incredibly smart from the outside. The luggage racks are a nice bonus on board and they suit being slightly longer than the other E400s.

They could be doing with a longer E400 on the 1 service during peaks as the B9TLs are always at top capacity!

 

[KGGXXXY]

On a new 18 and 38 today, the 38 had an annoying fan whine from the front window left side, other than that a big improvement. Glad I had headphones on for the journey though.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

On a new 18 and 38 today, the 38 had an annoying fan whine from the front window left side, other than that a big improvement. Glad I had headphones on for the journey though.

I agree that refinement really should be an area that is needing attention.

 

[83G/84D]

Hi to the regulars on this thread. I posted a few months ago that I was planning a visit to the area and I will be travelling up to Scotland for a visit next week. I have planned to have two days in Glasgow and want to see as many of the new deliveries in the last 12 months or so as I can.

I have got an idea of some of the routes they are on by following this thread, but not much idea of best places to go as I do not know the city that well.
Last time I visited Glasgow I spent most of my time in the city centre however I understand that some of the new buses are on routes which don't always serve this part.

So can I appeal to the posters who know Glasgow well for some help with this. Finally is Caley depot visible from outside. Looking at google maps is of some help however it dosen't look that promising.

Thanks in advance.