Quiet Coaches

[_toommm_]

My headphones are fairly cheap in terms of overhead wireless - they're Sennheiser HD 4.40BT. Not noise cancelling but because they're over ear and wrap around my ears instead of sitting on them, they're really good for blocking out noise.

Great when I end up under the panto on a 319!

 

[holl1984]

You were probably the people with the screeching brat who selfishly couldn't give a toss about the person with tinnitus for whom every squawk was a pain - as the saying goes "Your freedom is my oppression"

Hes the most laid back out of all my 4! Would literally just feed and sleep. When he started that god damn annoying shrieking/squealing they like to do, that was when it was no longer appropriate for us anymore so we stopped.

 

[kristiang85]

I miss Japanese trains - they are as quiet as libraries, everyone abides by the rules and no need to police it. We are so far from that here in the UK...

When I'm commuting I like the quiet coach to be pretty much silent, but then again silence makes you notice other noises more - the taptaptaptapping of loud keyboards really gets my goat. So oddly I prefer the older trains where a consistent noise masks this!

But generally rules should be - quiet considerate conversation is fine, no ringtones, no loud music, go to the vestibule to make a call, and if your children are prone to making noise, don't even try it. Considering quiet coaches are usually just one carriage, it really isn't that difficult to follow the rules.

 

[ejstubbs]

It does seem very common for parents with young children to allow them to play games or watch videos on their phones without headphones, or without the noise turned down. I've seen that quite often on local trains or buses

A while back I was on the top deck of a bus where two tweenage girls (hardly "young children") on the back seat were playing a pop video on a phone, without headphones, over and over again. When someone eventually lost patience and asked them to stop, they threw a tantrum and their mother rushed back from the front of the bus to remonstrate with the complainant, with the immortal words: "How dare you speak to my children like that?" Way to go, Mum: reinforcing your wee darlings' sense of entitlement to behave badly in public spaces.

The resulting stooshie did shut the brats up, though, so maybe they did learn something.

 

[LowLevel]

Agreed. Guards should be stopping this now, just like they stop feet on seats.

Oooh, it's story time

Once upon a time a young, keen guard was in charge of a train of screaming brats and mostly questionable adults grinding along slowly to Skegness in the summer holidays, replete, as usual, with whiffs of BO, cigarettes, lager, uncleaned teeth and cheap nasty food being slowly squashed into the floor (on the way back it's usually replaced as a going home treat by KFC).

Brat Table A was playing Frozen songs on a tablet, on repeat, while howling 'Let It GOOOOOOO' next to a party of older folks so the guard, as you might hope, asked the parents to control their children and pack the music up.

The party of older folks jumped up and called the young, keen guard a jobsworth arsehole, as they were interrupting the entertainment for the little children. The parents joined in with some old fashioned good natured foul mouthed abuse while waving around their cans of lager.

After a few similar incidents that summer the no longer particular young or particularly keen guard decided that screw them, anyone daft enough to travel on Skegness bound trains in the summer should know exactly what they're letting themselves in for or wont make the same mistake again, and therefore the degenerate behaviour continues unchecked as long as it's not physically dangerous.

There ends a tale of the perils of asking scum people to behave like they live in a civilised society rather than in a shed on a farm.

 

[ejstubbs]

In the past I have tried several makes of noise-cancelling headphones including Bose and Sennheiser. Some of them did a good job of removing low frequency rumbling noises but were less successful at cancelling out human speech.

This seems to be an unavoidable limitation in current noise-cancelling headphones. The Wiki article on noise-cancelling headphones says:

To cancel the lower-frequency portions of the noise, noise-cancelling headphones use active noise control. They incorporate a microphone that measures ambient sound, generate a waveform that is the exact negative of the ambient sound, and mix it with any audio signal the listener desires.

Circumaural headphones enclose the wearer's ear completely. This is an example of passive noise isolation (soundproofing).
Most noise-cancelling headsets in the consumer market generate the noise-cancelling waveform in real-time with analogue technology. In contrast, other active noise and vibration control products use soft real-time digital processing.

To prevent higher-frequency noise from reaching the ear, most noise-cancelling headphones depend on soundproofing. Higher-frequency sound has a shorter wavelength, and cancelling this sound would require locating devices to detect and counteract it closer to the listener's eardrum than is currently technically feasible or would require digital algorithms that would complicate the headphone's electronics.

I was on a train between Berwickupon-Tweed and Edinburgh late one evening. In the quiet coach there was just me, and a group of four around a table a few rows away who were having a fairly animated conversation. It wasn't obnoxious but it was distracting enough that I couldn't concentrate on my book. Being a bit of a chicken I decided to listen to music instead, through my noise-cancelling headphones. Even with the music turned up to a level that I normally wouldn't have dreamed of using (both because of the risk of audio leakage, and the risk of damage to my hearing) I could still clearly hear what they were saying.

Eventually I did steel myself and go over to ask, as nicely as I could, if they could keep their voices down since (a) this was supposed to be the quiet coach, and (b) I could hear their conversation quiet clearly even with my noise-cancelling headphones on. To be fair they were quite nice about it, and carried on at a much less intrusive volume after that.

They could probably have found a table in another coach at that time of the evening, but I thought it was polite to suggest the less disruptive option rather than asking them to move.

On another occasion I was leaving Kings Cross when a woman across the aisle in the quiet coach began monopolising the conversation with her companion with an unreasonably loud and protracted whinge about all the things that were wrong with her job, the people she worked with, her neighbours etc etc. It went on and on and on, and was really quite unpleasant in tone and content. She probably added me to the list of people she hated when I leaned over and pointed out that everyone in the coach could hear her, and could she keep it down a bit. She humphed off to another coach soon afterwards, though I couldn't help noticing that her erstwhile interlocutor did not accompany her.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I miss Japanese trains - they are as quiet as libraries, everyone abides by the rules and no need to police it. We are so far from that here in the UK...

Try the south WCML in the morning peak. Woe betide anyone who makes any noise at all in any coach.

 

[infobleep]

Try the south WCML in the morning peak. Woe betide anyone who makes any noise at all in any coach.

I find 455 and 456 rolling stock on the Guildford New Line can be fairly quite in the morning and they don't even have quiet coaches. Perhaps they should.

Of course those travelling on the morning Woking stoppers to Waterloo have a choice of trains with quiet coaches and trains without. It purely depends on the rolling stock. So you should be quiet in some carriages on some trains but you don't have to be at all on others.

I wouldn't have a problem with quiet coaches on the other services that don't have them. They don't even advertise which services have the quiet coaches and which don't.

In terms of booking tickets online, I'd like to be able to state I do.nor want a seat in a quiet coach. Not sure if online booking sites offer such functionality

 

[Hadders]

Try the south WCML in the morning peak. Woe betide anyone who makes any noise at all in any coach.

Similar with Great Northern into Kings Cross. A very civilised environment with people who know how to behave on a train.

 

[Mikey C]

Try the south WCML in the morning peak. Woe betide anyone who makes any noise at all in any coach.

Isn't there a big difference between commuter trains and ones with a wider mix of passengers?

I imagine virtually all commuters in the morning, half asleep and grumpy just want a quiet journey to read, quietly watch videos or doze!

As an extreme example, if you catch an early morning bus in London, it's like a morgue on board...

 

[ejstubbs]

In terms of booking tickets online, I'd like to be able to state I do.nor want a seat in a quiet coach. Not sure if online booking sites offer such functionality

They usually have a checkbox that you have to tick if you *do* want to be in the quiet coach. Given that there is usually only one quiet coach in each class, the default algorithm would fairly obviously seem to be to put people in an ordinary coach unless they actively indicate that they want to be in the quiet coach, or (unlikely) all reservable seats in the other coaches are already full.

 

[infobleep]

They usually have a checkbox that you have to tick if you *do* want to be in the quiet coach. Given that there is usually only one quiet coach in each class, the default algorithm would fairly obviously seem to be to put people in an ordinary coach unless they actively indicate that they want to be in the quiet coach, or (unlikely) all reservable seats in the other coaches are already full.

You'd hope they would do that. I don't know if they do.

 

[37047]

Isn't there a big difference between commuter trains and ones with a wider mix of passengers?

I imagine virtually all commuters in the morning, half asleep and grumpy just want a quiet journey to read, quietly watch videos or doze!

As an extreme example, if you catch an early morning bus in London, it's like a morgue on board...

Definitely a difference between a majority of commuters vs. a mix of passenger types in my experience. My usual working hours are ~7:30-15:30. I get the 0610 departure from King's Lynn to Cambridge North and it is generally very quiet, the regulars have their usual seats, etc. The train home (or indeed an off-peak or weekend journey in either direction on that line) is an entirely different matter. I'd love it if GN replaced the 1st class section on the Fen Line with a quiet zone...

 

[HaggisBotherer]

My usual working hours are ~7:30-15:30.

Wow, I think you're the first person I've ever met (metaphorically speaking) who actually does an eight hour working day. In my dreams...

 

[37047]

Wow, I think you're the first person I've ever met (metaphorically speaking) who actually does an eight hour working day. In my dreams...

Perhaps I should have used 'theoretical' rather than 'usual'... To be fair, I'm very lucky - my employer in general and my line manager in particular are very keen on ensuring a healthy work-life balance. Being in the office more than 8 hours per day is frowned upon, although occasionally unavoidable. We also get to choose the hours (start after 7am, finish before 7pm, any range between those is generally OK).

 

[GrimShady]

I find the worst crowd are actually the staff on LNER coach K.

 

[ejstubbs]

You'd hope they would do that. I don't know if they do.

I've never been put in the quiet coach when I didn't request it. If you're really concerned about it then book through an operator whose online booking service allows you to check where your reserved seat is and change it. (You usually have to do that before you complete payment.)

CLARIFICATION: By "You usually have to do that before you complete payment." I meant that if you do want to do it then you have to do it before you complete payment, because you can't change it afterwards. I didn't mean that you are forced to do it whether you want to or not.

 

[Rail Blues]

Honestly, i think as an idea they've had their day. It seems to serve as another cause for conflict and no one is quite clear what standards are expected. Clearly the op is not being unreasonable to talk at normal volumes, but even that caused huffing and tutting.
The situation is compounded when people who haven't requested the quiet coach are allocated there by computer software. They also inadvertantly create the impression that anything goes in every other part of the train.

I'd like to see them done away with and greater enphasis on raising behaviour jn all areas of the train, with cleae guidance that electronic devices should be used in silent mode or with headphones.

Aside from the sodcasters (those who play rubbish r&b or hip hop out of their phone speakers, when it comes to electronic noise the worst culprits are in my experience are older passengers who haven't/can't put their phones on vibrate. Many a journey has been punctuated by their trusty Nokia 3310s belting out that irritating signiture ring tone for what feels like eternity at glass shattering volume.

 

[al78]

Wow, I think you're the first person I've ever met (metaphorically speaking) who actually does an eight hour working day. In my dreams...

I work at least eight hours per day, plus I am responsible for a server and the website and related software running on it, which requires me to work out of hours to fix it if it falls over, which I don't get paid extra for. Plenty of people in universities will work more than 8 hours/day, even if they contract states 8 hours/day.

 

[al78]

I'd like to see them done away with and greater enphasis on raising behaviour jn all areas of the train ...

How do you propose to do this? Some people will not co-operate with such a request, and there is a limit to what the train manager can (and will for safety reasons) do.

 

[Dougal2345]

Agreed. Guards should be stopping this now, just like they stop feet on seats.

Hmm, by the polite request "take your feet off the seats please", as I saw happen yesterday? Youngster complied, but feet were back on the seats 30 seconds later when the guard had moved on.

A problem with the Desiros in my area is that the air conditioning roar is so loud, a quiet conversation is impossible... the "noise floor" has been raised too high even in an empty carriage. Such a shame that this is the case in an EMU.

RE the noisy rap music from mobiles, I've thought of trying the passive-aggressive approach of playing "The Smurf Song" loudly on repeat in competition, but haven't done it yet

 

[satisnek]

RE the noisy rap music from mobiles, I've thought of trying the passive-aggressive approach of playing "The Smurf Song" loudly on repeat in competition, but haven't done it yet

It's not necessary to use commercial recordings - 7kHz tone works a treat. Having experimented with sine wave sweeps, I've found that my own phone's 'loudspeaker' (which I'm sure is fairly typical) has a clearly audible peak at this frequency. It's a piercing high-pitched whistle which is difficult to determine where it's coming from.

Anyway, one Saturday evening last year I was on the New Street to Worcester service. Two moronic teenagers boarded at Bromsgrove and promptly turned their 'music' on. So I gave them a blast. They turned it down and I turned it off. Then they tried again and I responded. This sequence - up/on, down/off, up/on, down/off - continued all the way to Droitwich where I alighted. Presumably they continued to Worcester playing their noise unchallenged. They were simply too self-important to get the message.

My next idea is to use high frequencies which only young people can hear, but this will require a dedicated device because it's not possible with a phone.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I'll be honest, as long as people talk quietly and not on their phones plus children being behaved / not constantly screaming then I'm happy with that.

XC have Quiet Coaches on their 5 HST's (Coach G) which each have around 65 seats. That's one thing about HST's running most XC routes before Voyager trains took over.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Hes the most laid back out of all my 4! Would literally just feed and sleep. When he started that god damn annoying shrieking/squealing they like to do, that was when it was no longer appropriate for us anymore so we stopped.

I do sometimes wonder though with some parents as to why they inflict travel on infants - especially flying. I was on a flight to berlin and an infant no more than six months old was screaming and obviously distraught with the ordeal of flying (air pressure on ears probably) - and this essential journey was inflicted on the poor child (and surrounding passengers) because the parents wanted to go to a heavy metal concert.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do sometimes wonder though with some parents as to why they inflict travel on infants - especially flying. I was on a flight to berlin and an infant no more than six months old was screaming and obviously distraught with the ordeal of flying (air pressure on ears probably) - and this essential journey was inflicted on the poor child (and surrounding passengers) because the parents wanted to go to a heavy metal concert.

Completely agreed.

FWIW, I have a few near photographic "point memories" from being very young (the earliest from age about 3), and recall being on a flight and absolutely hating it. It might have been that that put me off flying as an adult for many years, though work requiring significant travel got me over that.

I accept that some people e.g. families split over different countries have no choice, but I think taking a child so young they can't understand what is going on (the forces, the turbulence, the noise and the blocked ears) on a plane for purely pleasure reasons is downright cruel, to be honest. While they're very young, best to holiday somewhere more local either by car or train.

 

[Ianno87]

I do sometimes wonder though with some parents as to why they inflict travel on infants - especially flying. I was on a flight to berlin and an infant no more than six months old was screaming and obviously distraught with the ordeal of flying (air pressure on ears probably) - and this essential journey was inflicted on the poor child (and surrounding passengers) because the parents wanted to go to a heavy metal concert.

Because, you know, it helps get children used to the idea of travelling and how to behave. As well as getting used to other places and cultures (alot of British people would benefit from that right now). Are you saying families shouldn't take holidays together?! Or should we all be hermits and keep out of your way?

Fact is children of a certain age scream when they're not happy in lots of different situations, in spite of the parent(s)' best efforts. Deal with it - you were that age once too.

Holidays always involve travel in some form I'd rather take my 2 and 0 year olds on a long train or plane journey, than on a long car journey, where they are strapped in for long periods (which is also not good for spinal development etc.).

Took them to Germany last year and it was generally fine, except that the two year old point blank refused to sit down and strapped in for landing in Germany no matter what feeding/entertainment/toys were offered (he'd been fantastic up to this point). It literally took me physically restraining his legs for the whole seatbelts on phase, with much screaming. Nothing to do with discomfort, he just didn't want to be strapped into a seat (as is sometimes the case in his pram).

The other flights he's done (including 12 hours each way to Hong Kong) he's been fine.

Thankfully, 95% of people aren't arseholes about it. One guy came up to me after we parked up on the stand with a "Don't worry mate, I've been there myself", which was lovely.

And it was worth it to see him enjoy Miniatur Wunderland.

 

[Ianno87]

Completely agreed.

FWIW, I have a few near photographic "point memories" from being very young (the earliest from age about 3), and recall being on a flight and absolutely hating it. It might have been that that put me off flying as an adult for many years, though work requiring significant travel got me over that.

I accept that some people e.g. families split over different countries have no choice, but I think taking a child so young they can't understand what is going on (the forces, the turbulence, the noise and the blocked ears) on a plane for purely pleasure reasons is downright cruel, to be honest. While they're very young, best to holiday somewhere more local either by car or train.

My 2 year old is more scared of handdryers in toilets than he is getting on a plane.

Calling it "cruelty" is, frankly, ludicrous.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Took them to Germany last year and it was generally fine, except that the two year old point blank refused to sit down and strapped in for landing in Germany no matter what feeding/entertainment/toys were offered (he'd been fantastic up to this point). It literally took me physically restraining his legs for the whole seatbelts on phase, with much screaming. Nothing to do with discomfort, he just didn't want to be strapped into a seat (as is sometimes the case in his pram).

Which proves my point. Such a disciplined environment with others in very close proximity is not the place for a young child who can be upset by things like that. It's cruel to the child and bad to everyone else too.

I took my nephew[1] on his first flight (just a Flymaybe domestic from Brum to Edinburgh) aged about 5, he was old enough to be talked through the whole process, understand what was going on and have quite a bit of awe about it, as well as to know when he had to do as he was told. That to me is about the right age for a first flight. And I bet at age 5 he'd have got more from Miniatur Wunderland - have to take him!

As for 12 hours to Hong Kong, unless it was because of a family split internationally where there's little choice, wait until they're just short of teens and they'll get far more from that kind of far-flung holiday. France seems quite foreign when you're just trying out your schoolboy French!

[1] My sister is quite scared of flying so wanted me to take him so he got a positive first experience.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Because, you know, it helps get children used to the idea of travelling and how to behave. As well as getting used to other places and cultures (alot of British people would benefit from that right now). Are you saying families shouldn't take holidays together?! Or should we all be hermits and keep out of your way?

Fact is children of a certain age scream when they're not happy in lots of different situations, in spite of the parent(s)' best efforts. Deal with it - you were that age once too.

Holidays always involve travel in some form I'd rather take my 2 and 0 year olds on a long train or plane journey, than on a long car journey, where they are strapped in for long periods (which is also not good for spinal development etc.).

Took them to Germany last year and it was generally fine, except that the two year old point blank refused to sit down and strapped in for landing in Germany no matter what feeding/entertainment/toys were offered (he'd been fantastic up to this point). It literally took me physically restraining his legs for the whole seatbelts on phase, with much screaming. Nothing to do with discomfort, he just didn't want to be strapped into a seat (as is sometimes the case in his pram).

The other flights he's done (including 12 hours each way to Hong Kong) he's been fine.

Thankfully, 95% of people aren't arseholes about it. One guy came up to me after we parked up on the stand with a "Don't worry mate, I've been there myself", which was lovely.

And it was worth it to see him enjoy Miniatur Wunderland.

Of course you and yours are entitled and have the right and should be able to do whatever you wish regardless of what effect it has on others.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Because, you know, it helps get children used to the idea of travelling and how to behave. As well as getting used to other places and cultures (alot of British people would benefit from that right now). Are you saying families shouldn't take holidays together?! Or should we all be hermits and keep out of your way?

Fact is children of a certain age scream when they're not happy in lots of different situations, in spite of the parent(s)' best efforts. Deal with it - you were that age once too.

Holidays always involve travel in some form I'd rather take my 2 and 0 year olds on a long train or plane journey, than on a long car journey, where they are strapped in for long periods (which is also not good for spinal development etc.).

Took them to Germany last year and it was generally fine, except that the two year old point blank refused to sit down and strapped in for landing in Germany no matter what feeding/entertainment/toys were offered (he'd been fantastic up to this point). It literally took me physically restraining his legs for the whole seatbelts on phase, with much screaming. Nothing to do with discomfort, he just didn't want to be strapped into a seat (as is sometimes the case in his pram).

The other flights he's done (including 12 hours each way to Hong Kong) he's been fine.

Thankfully, 95% of people aren't arseholes about it. One guy came up to me after we parked up on the stand with a "Don't worry mate, I've been there myself", which was lovely.

And it was worth it to see him enjoy Miniatur Wunderland.

The trouble on here is, everyone swears blind they were well behaved when they were children and never screamed or cried or made any fuss. Although these people seem to make the biggest fuss now!

My children are older now, but if there is a parent “struggling” with a child on a journey I always try to make a point of saying it’s fine, don’t worry, been there! Indeed, I’m grateful I’m not the parent having to deal with it, I can sit back and ignore it.

To say children shouldn’t travel is frankly ridiculous. Sadly, it’s reflective of the intolerant society we’ve become.