Campaign to restore passenger services on the Middlewich Link Line

[Greybeard33]

It is an awkward manoeuvre to change lines without going to NVR (IIRC).
Pull forward on Manchester bound track; then wait; reverse back into platform 3; then forward onto Chester bound line; finally back into platform 4.

Normally a turnback at Altrincham only requires a single reversal. A shunt move forward from Platform 3 across to the bi-directional Down line, then back into Platform 4. A westbound freight can pass through Platform 4 before the move, and an eastbound freight through Platform 3 after the move. In the specific, unusual, scenario of first an eastbound freight, then a westbound freight, both needing to pass during the turnround time, I think the passenger train would most likely wait empty on the Up line south of the station until both freights have passed, then continue ECS to Deansgate Jn to reverse.

 

[pemma]

Suggestion to whoever mans the MidCheshireRail Twitter feed - delete your account or hand it over to someone else. The Middlewich Line has a strong business case for reopening without the need for tabloid style misinformation and arguing a previous point you've tweeted is actually invalid. You make even the RMT look like professionals in social media.

 

[Ianno87]

It is an awkward manoeuvre to change lines without going to NVR (IIRC).
Pull forward on Manchester bound track; then wait; reverse back into platform 3; then forward onto Chester bound line; finally back into platform 4.

Fairly sure Manchester-bound line isn't signalled to reverse back into P3 in that way, unless there's a Ground Position light signal?

 

[no commute yet]

Consultants agree the business case is proved and next up is a SOBC by the end of summer. No commute yet but not far off now! Very excited to see how quickly this tiny, simple, cheap project can get through the pipeline. Hopefully the rail industry can show how quickly it can complete a little project like this

 

[martin2345uk]

What's an SOBC?

 

[Ianno87]

Consultants agree the business case is proved and next up is a SOBC by the end of summer. No commute yet but not far off now! Very excited to see how quickly this tiny, simple, cheap project can get through the pipeline. Hopefully the rail industry can show how quickly it can complete a little project like this

Still needs some money.

What's an SOBC?

Strategic Outline Business Case.

 

[no commute yet]

Still needs some money.

I’m delighted to tell you the SOBC funding is already in place (blows playful raspberry) Let’s not forget: ‘this is one of two projects in the North I want to seriously look at reopening.’ I don’t understand how there’s any negativity about this tiny project now, it’s clearly happening

 

[a_c_skinner]

Hopefully the rail industry can show how quickly it can complete a little project like this

If it does it will be completely out of character as the rail industry generally seems to do exactly the opposite.

 

[no commute yet]

If it does it will be completely out of character as the rail industry generally seems to do exactly the opposite.

They all read this forum so the challenge is on!

 

[geoffk]

I’m delighted to tell you the SOBC funding is already in place (blows playful raspberry) Let’s not forget: ‘this is one of two projects in the North I want to seriously look at reopening.’ I don’t understand how there’s any negativity about this tiny project now, it’s clearly happening

Am I right in thinking that the branch platform at Northwich cannot be used for passenger services as it is of substandard width? Also, if the additional service is to run to Greenbank it cannot of course run to Middlewich/Sandbach. I agree though that reopening this line is desirable.

 

[no commute yet]

Am I right in thinking that the branch platform at Northwich cannot be used for passenger services as it is of substandard width? Also, if the additional service is to run to Greenbank it cannot of course run to Middlewich/Sandbach. I agree though that reopening this line is desirable.

Hi, I don’t know, I’m just delighted millions of pounds worth of publicly funded infrastructure is going to get properly used again. I don’t think the initial service pattern includes Grenbank. I think they’re looking at via Northwich, Middlewich, Sandbach and then not necessarily via Crewe but I guess we need to see the SOBC

 

[AndyHudds]

If it does it will be completely out of character as the rail industry generally seems to do exactly the opposite.

Bizarrely that's a massive problem this industry has, it never does the bleeding obvious and if it does the timescales to get it done are just ludicrous. The whole industry needs some common sense and speeding up. A lot of it comes down to, in this country, we know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

 

[Chester1]

Hi, I don’t know, I’m just delighted millions of pounds worth of publicly funded infrastructure is going to get properly used again. I don’t think the initial service pattern includes Grenbank. I think they’re looking at via Northwich, Middlewich, Sandbach and then not necessarily via Crewe but I guess we need to see the SOBC

I guess where the initial service runs doesn't really matter because once the line is back in passenger use improving the service is a much smaller challenge. Long term it should be Piccadilly-Crewe which would mean Greenbank going back to 1tph. That is a reasonable trade off to reconnect a town to the network and provide Northwich-Altrincham stations with a direct service to the WCML.

 

[Bald Rick]

Consultants agree the business case is proved and next up is a SOBC by the end of summer.

I can tell you, through very painful experience, that the business case is not proved for a project that needs any form of government funding or finance, until you have an SOBC approved.

But I wish you well in getting it approved!

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I can tell you, through very painful experience, that the business case is not proved for a project that needs any form of government funding or finance, until you have an SOBC approved.

But I wish you well in getting it approved!

and then not necessarily via Crewe

Doubly so ...

 

[no commute yet]

Doubly so ...

It’s like a Kafka novel this isn’t it? Every time there’s progress people post notes of doom hinting at it never happening. What’s the matter with everyone? Don’t forget, a couple of years ago there were still people who didn’t think this line was still there! This project is happening and everyone in the industry is going to be able to take a huge amount of pride from the return of scheduled stopping services to this line. Come on, we can do it!! Let’s show everyone what’s possible with some positivity and determination

 

[martin2345uk]

Is it actually 100% confirmed that Middlewich station is being rebuilt then? Whereabouts is it going to be?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Not Kafka, more like Cervantes.

• There is funding to see if the SOBC stacks up.
  
• One of the "pro" camp posted the "not necessarily via Crewe" comment, not me.
• It is a fact well known that the line from Stockport to Piccadilly has no free paths, and this is unlikely to change after 2033 either. This means that whichever way you go, via Northwich or via a new chord line at Elworth.
  
• Crewe will not (as currently planned) have any capacity for additional paths from Sandbach. These services simply aren't in the TSS, so the Department is making no allowance for them and neither is HS2.

Chris Grayling, transport strategy, announced in July that it was one of two trainlines that his department wanted to reopen to passenger trains – while the link has featured prominently in key planning strategies from CEC, CWAC and the Cheshire and Warrington Local Enterprise Partnership.

Apart from the lack of attention to proof-reading in , being given Grayling's support should ring an alarm bell, as his recent record on these things is not good.

• All an SOBC could do (if positive) is make the case for an OBC study.
  
• An OBC (if positive) makes the case for an FBC study.
• If the FBC works then you have a scheme, provided you can fund it.

I guess where the initial service runs doesn't really matter because once the line is back in passenger use improving the service is a much smaller challenge.

... is clearly nonsense, as any FBC will have to prove it works right away, and captures a big enough market to do so. If it doesn't go anywhere relevant then it won't have a market - The Department is not (and I speak from working directly with them, very recently) not in the habit of funding speculative schemes.

I believe that your giant is a windmill.

(I don't work for WSP, but I know they will not find business case benefits where none are to be had, and they will be realistic about all the costs involved, more so than that reported in the 2009 study)

 

[no commute yet]

Not Kafka, more like Cervantes.

• There is funding to see if the SOBC stacks up.
  
• One of the "pro" camp posted the "not necessarily via Crewe" comment, not me.
• It is a fact well known that the line from Stockport to Piccadilly has no free paths, and this is unlikely to change after 2033 either. This means that whichever way you go, via Northwich or via a new chord line at Elworth.
  
• Crewe will not (as currently planned) have any capacity for additional paths from Sandbach. These services simply aren't in the TSS, so the Department is making no allowance for them and neither is HS2.

Apart from the lack of attention to proof-reading in , being given Grayling's support should ring an alarm bell, as his recent record on these things is not good.

• All an SOBC could do (if positive) is make the case for an OBC study.
  
• An OBC (if positive) makes the case for an FBC study.
• If the FBC works then you have a scheme, provided you can fund it.

... is clearly nonsense, as any FBC will have to prove it works right away, and captures a big enough market to do so. If it doesn't go anywhere relevant then it won't have a market - The Department is not (and I speak from working directly with them, very recently) not in the habit of funding speculative schemes.

I believe that your giant is a windmill.

(I don't work for WSP, but I know they will not find business case benefits where none are to be had, and they will be realistic about all the costs involved, more so than that reported in the 2009 study)

Everyone knows the problem with paths which is why, in addition to the report generally, WSP were asked to look at what service could start asap and prior to those paths being available. They’ve identified one that will do for now - it’s an interesting one but definitely works. The economic case is made - that argument is won, even if you cost it with stations having gold plated info boards, it’s still made out. We can say that because even if the project is going to be 10 million or even 20 million or even more it’s still worth it’s and still peanuts

 

[martin2345uk]

What’s the path they’ve identified out of interest?

 

[childwallblues]

Possibly north on the wcml?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Possibly north on the wcml?

Well I guess a Northwich - Sandbach - Wilmslow could work. It would just have to fit around the Brunner Mond reversals and Style branch services.

 

[6Gman]

Hi, I don’t know, I’m just delighted millions of pounds worth of publicly funded infrastructure is going to get properly used again. I don’t think the initial service pattern includes Grenbank. I think they’re looking at via Northwich, Middlewich, Sandbach and then not necessarily via Crewe but I guess we need to see the SOBC

I believe it is the case that the back platform cannot be used in its current condition.
Accessing the other platforms would - I fear - require p way and s&t work, adding to costs.
I think the point about Greenbank is that their (proposed) enhanced service would be lost if a Stockport - Middlewich service was restored.
If they're not going to Crewe at the southern end doesn't that remove a fair chunk of the justification for reopening?

 

[yorksrob]

Surely an option could be to split trains at Northwich for a direct service into Manchester.

 

[6Gman]

Surely an option could be to split trains at Northwich for a direct service into Manchester.

Well, it's an idea.

 

[deltic]

Consultants agree the business case is proved and next up is a SOBC by the end of summer. No commute yet but not far off now! Very excited to see how quickly this tiny, simple, cheap project can get through the pipeline. Hopefully the rail industry can show how quickly it can complete a little project like this

Is there a link to a report saying consultants agree the business case is proved?

 

[6Gman]

Is there a link to a report saying consultants agree the business case is proved?

There is a link on post #4 (I think) to a consultant's report. Some of us are a little unconvinced by the costings used.

 

[nw1]

Not Kafka, more like Cervantes.

• Crewe will not (as currently planned) have any capacity for additional paths from Sandbach. These services simply aren't in the TSS, so the Department is making no allowance for them and neither is HS2.

Will it be that hard to get it into Crewe? ATM the Stockport-Wilmslow-Crewe line has one London train, one Cardiff train and two stoppers per hour, surely the Middlewich could be slotted in there?
In terms of Crewe platform capacity, it would presumably only be a 2-car DMU and thus could share platforms with other terminating trains e.g. the existing Manchester-Crewe stoppers?

I definitely think that running the service to Crewe is what would make this service a success. You'd get Middlewich reopened but also that important link from Altrincham, Knutsford and Northwich to points south, which is currently only possible by a roundabout route.

 

[6Gman]

Will it be that hard to get it into Crewe? ATM the Stockport-Wilmslow-Crewe line has one London train, one Cardiff train and two stoppers per hour, surely the Middlewich could be slotted in there?
In terms of Crewe platform capacity, it would presumably only be a 2-car DMU and thus could share platforms with other terminating trains e.g. the existing Manchester-Crewe stoppers?

I definitely think that running the service to Crewe is what would make this service a success. You'd get Middlewich reopened but also that important link from Altrincham, Knutsford and Northwich to points south, which is currently only possible by a roundabout route.

I think it's platforming at Crewe that's the issue rather than track capacity between there and Sandbach.

Only three platform can be accessed from the Manchester line - 1, 5 and 6.

5 and 6 are effectively the main Up and Down platforms; 1 is more heavily used than one might think.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Update on Friday from Facebook Page:

We can now report on some progress on the rail link. The Consultants, WSP have presented their findings to the Stakeholder Group which is attended by the Campaign’s Chairman, Stephen Dent and Secretary, Samantha Moss.
WSP found that the economic and social case for passenger services on the line between Sandbach and Northwich and stations at Middlewich and Gadbrook Park have been well proven and we tick all the boxes. There are however problems with providing services from Crewe to Manchester via our line and the Mid Cheshire line as there is just no room for another service at Crewe Station until the construction of the new Crewe Hub Station in 2033. There is also a big bottleneck between Stockport and Manchester so an additional service via this route is not possible with the present infrastructure.
As previously reported, we were not happy with waiting for HS2 it and therefore WSP were asked to look at an alternative service to overcome the above problems by 2027 as an interim measure. After looking at several possibilities, we are now looking at providing a service running from Manchester, Alderley Edge, Sandbach, Middlewich, Gadbrook Park, Warrington and other stations to terminate at Preston.
The next step is for the Consultants to submit a Strategic Outline Business Case (SOBC) for the Department for Transport and the Secretary of State. The Local Enterprise Partnership and two Borough Councils said that the funding should be available to continue the engagement of WSP to prepare the SOBC and they expect this to be ready late summer. We will continue to look at options for a direct service via Crewe but this will not happen until 2033.
This situation is a bit disappointing for those who wanted an early direct service from the Mid Cheshire Line to Crewe, but we are stuck with what we can do practically with the existing infrastructure.
We are trying to get a copy of WSP’s PowerPoint presentation to present to an early meeting of the Campaign Group. We will give notice of this on this page.

Mid Cheshire link facebook page
https://m.facebook.com/MidCheshireRail/?locale2=en_GB