Dr Hoo
Established Member
So in the context of the S&C there could be one (urban) operator for the Aire Valley electrics, one (regional) for Leeds-Carlisle and one (rural) for Leeds-Lancaster? What would the advantages be?
At least the units with contravision adverts on the windows seem to have gone. I had one on the S&C once and suppose it was just the next one out of Neville Hill. On my last trip on the line, there was a young mother with two kids who spent the whole journey glued to computer games or smart phone! I think the semi-fast northbound train in the morning is missed as this is the one which was most popular with day trippers.On the subject of S&C views, when I travelled on it recently, it was noticable how the old 158 seats, being a bit shorter, enabled a better panoramic view out of the windows than the new ones (as well as being a more comfortable design).
So in the context of the S&C there could be one (urban) operator for the Aire Valley electrics, one (regional) for Leeds-Carlisle and one (rural) for Leeds-Lancaster? What would the advantages be?
Just an update from a previous request, I was at Langwathby station today and the 2H89 11.18 to Leeds took on 12 passengers on a two car train. In the opposite direction the 1M53 to Carlisle took just 2 passengers on a three car train. This is the first time I have seen passengers get on this train as it has only begun stopping at Langwathby since the May timetable change, so numbers may be low until more realise it is now a stopper.
At least the units with contravision adverts on the windows seem to have gone. I had one on the S&C once and suppose it was just the next one out of Neville Hill. On my last trip on the line, there was a young mother with two kids who spent the whole journey glued to computer games or smart phone! I think the semi-fast northbound train in the morning is missed as this is the one which was most popular with day trippers.
Thanks. Interesting. 12 on the 11.18 may not sound like many, but I think it looks good. Of course, it is summer (pretty certain that number would be just 6 or 8 on mid-week in January) - but, given that the average usage last year was 50 per day - ie 25 on, 25 off - this is almost 25% of the average daily traffic.
Just two boarding on the 11.32 to Carlisle doesn't seem surprising. Makes you wonder why Northern decided to put in all the stops in the May TT.
I've not seen that concept.
If you go over to Germany you could well end up with one operator for "S-Bahn-Leeds" which would have the electrics and a load of Pacers, and another for the regional network in that Bundesland (or a subset of it), though. It wouldn't be too hard to envisage the idea of a "Regionalbahn-Lakeland-Furneß" (sorry, couldn't resist ) which might encompass something like the Manchester Airport-Barrow/Windermere/Cumbrian Coast, Morecambe/Fleetwood and the Bentham Line[1], as that's all reasonably self-contained.
[1] Is that the best name they can come up with? It sounds awful and does nothing to promote the line. It might not be strictly accurate, but something like "The South Dales Line" might sound better.
So what you have described is Northern and Trans-Pennine Express then.....
Seriously though, I would like the idea of TPE taking over some routes like the S&C, and dare I suggest it extending some to Glasgow.
I personally find TPE rather overpriced for what they are. Not sure I would trust them to continue the Dales railcard and various other offers.
These kinds of things could be written into franchise agreements I guess. However TPE can offer things like First Class, more IC-like stock to not only attract more Dales traffic but perhaps strengthen the case for extending the route.
These kinds of things could be written into franchise agreements I guess. However TPE can offer things like First Class, more IC-like stock to not only attract more Dales traffic but perhaps strengthen the case for extending the route.
Class 221s would be best, performance wise if we are talking about using existing rather than brand new stock,.Hmmmm. That sounds good in theory, but I wonder about the practice. In fact, it supports an idea for a thread on the problems of success with 'secondary' services.
Class 221s would be best, performance wise if we are talking about using existing rather than brand new stock,.
Would a hourly service off-peak be to much Carlisle to Leeds?I have mentioned this before but they would be ideal as they could go at 125mph between Glasgow and Carlisle, and run semi-fast to Leeds from Carlisle. If they could run every other hour, then between those hours Sprinters could run the stopping services.
Would a hourly service off-peak be to much Carlisle to Leeds?
I see your point now as I thought you meant both all stops to Carlisle and then fast to Glasgow. It is actually a very good idea because not only will it make Leeds to Glasgow journeys easier it should also help to free up some space on the busy XC north-east to south-west services.For the tiny stations yes, but the expresses but would not stop there. The fasts would serve only serve Kirby Stephen, Appleby, Settle, Skipton, and other main settlements in which an hourly service isn't exactly overkill. Smaller stations can be served by a 2 hour stopper service. I would imagine having an alternate Glasgow Leeds service under 4 hours, possibly under 3:45 has the capacity to generate additional demand in addition to overspill from passengers who would have otherwise gone via Edinburgh, as would the convenience for the larger intermediate stations which will have more than a service every 2-3 hours and don't need to plan their day out as much.
This is of course a postulating assumption but as it stands, the frequency of stopping or semi-fasts services is quite arbitrary in my opinion.
They’re not very common up here.I noticed a 156 working an S&C service a few days ago (07:xx from Leeds). A one-off or are they now back on the route with regularity?
I see your point now as I thought you meant both all stops to Carlisle and then fast to Glasgow. It is actually a very good idea because not only will it make Leeds to Glasgow journeys easier it should also help to free up some space on the busy XC north-east to south-west services.
Given the increase in passenger journeys in the past decade, if the various TOCs and DfT could get it together, I do wonder if a limited, three trains a day Leeds - Glasgow 158 service could work profitably.
I wouldn't run it non-stop Carlisle-Glasgow though - if you inserted stops at Motherwell and Carstairs (the latter to gain political support for the new service as much as passengers) I think it would stand a better chance of success (available paths permitting). And south of Carlisle, it might be worth dropping Kirkby Stephen and inserting a Langwathby stop. The latter station, though in a village, could serve a larger nearby population, viz Penrith if properly promoted.
Won't the 158's be a bit slow for the WCML? Even old HST's would be a better shout. Indeed Carstairs doesn't have many services and only 1 going south, but it's smaller than many S&C stops so who is it going to benefit exactly?
Never had one, but I'd love a 142 on the S&C, the all-round view would be unrivalled.
Won't the 158's be a bit slow for the WCML? Even old HST's would be a better shout.
Indeed Carstairs doesn't have many services and only 1 going south, but it's smaller than many S&C stops so who is it going to benefit exactly?
I had one during the last week that the route was open between Appleby and Carlisle due to the landslip.Never had one, but I'd love a 142 on the S&C, the all-round view would be unrivalled.
Was quite a fun ride down the S&C in December last year when I had 142088. On this occasion it was brought in ECS from Hexham in an attempt to restore the service due to earlier disruption in the Leeds/Keighley area.Never had one, but I'd love a 142 on the S&C, the all-round view would be unrivalled.
Surely when you have a "good" line like S&C, there should at least be a decent service to enable people living on the line to commute to/from the city centres of Leeds and Carlisle so the people living along the line don't have to relocate to the already over-crowded and congested cities to get a half decent job. At the moment the timings aren't particularly attractive and journey times very long due to the number of stops.