Exactly.No other TOC would want them. They are in extremely poor condition inside and out.
-Peter
Exactly.No other TOC would want them. They are in extremely poor condition inside and out.
For those who like them, thankfully there’s the Southern units.
Is it? Do you know any more about this? It would be great to see one saved from scrapping.isn't one earmarked by NRM - maybe a Southern one, you'd think they would want the orig seats for a future restoration of the unit or carriage they have earmarked ?
could not recall where I saw it so googled it and it is on the 313 wikipedia page:Is it? Do you know any more about this? It would be great to see one saved from scrapping.
That wiki article cites Rail Magazine Issue 876 Page 10 so if anyone has that please could you confirm? I agree, they should definitely keep some PEP stock, but I'd think it would make more sense to keep a unit with original seating (such as 313122/123/134) rather than a refurbished southern unit.could not recall where I saw it so googled it and it is on the 313 wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_313
Upon retirement 313201 will be preserved by the National Railway Museum.
Which may or may not be accurate!
I have to say IMHO that to NOT have some PEP stock in the national collection would be a serious omission - given the stock represented a major generational design change - and also a significant travel experience for millions of people who have relied on PEP derived units in various parts of the UK.
That wiki article cites Rail Magazine Issue 876 Page 10 so if anyone has that please could you confirm? I agree, they should definitely keep some PEP stock, but I'd think it would make more sense to keep a unit with original seating (such as 313122/123/134) rather than a refurbished southern unit.
I've reached out to the NRM about getting a low back seating GN 313 so I'll let you know when they get back to me.I prob have got that Rail but not sure I can quickly lay my hands on it - HOWEVER - this is more pertinent and up to date
https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/...19/03/op-rail-vehicle-strategy-2019_FINAL.pdf
see page 10 where the 313 gets a pic
"TABLE D: ELECTRICAL MULTIPLE UNITS FOR POTENTIAL PASSENGER RIDES ACROSS SMG SITES AND MAIN LINE USE"
Ideally one would acquire a 1st or early build then restore it internally with rescued orig seats off another one - but as we know preservation has much demands on it and limited resources, and 'modern' EMUs are probably not top of the queue, sadly... but grabbing seats and storing them would of course be an obvious thing to do - assuming someone has joined up the dots...
The docs of the sort above are often the museum sector's justification docs for acquisitions/ future use and even disposals and loans (NRM has featured in parts of the railway pres with some criticism for aspect of this I seem to recall, perhaps unfairly).
Or alternately - maybe drop a line to the NRM about the 313 and urge them to secure the seats out of one heading for Sims? NRM has good relationships with the ROSCOs I suspect so might happily ask and get given them....
Nice one, tho obv the 1st of class is the one they have identified and southern already done exterior renovations on, so probably being earmarked already it gets 'extra care' as depot staff probably know the NRM want it etc.I've reached out to the NRM about getting a low back seating GN 313 so I'll let you know when they get back to me.
North of Gordon Hill on the Hertford line is the best bet for 75 mph. Especially the trains that miss out some stops.Moorgate to Stevenage via Hertford North would be the longest run I think, but they only do that on weekends now (1tph). The longest weekday journey is Moorgate to Watton-at-Stone I think at almost 25 miles, also via Hertford North (2tph).
But if it's top speed you're after, the Welwyn branch may offer more opportunity. Someone more informed than I could probably chime in.
Would it not make more sense to preserve a 314 as representative of PEPs? All the features in a smaller package.Nice one, tho obv the 1st of class is the one they have identified and southern already done exterior renovations on, so probably being earmarked already it gets 'extra care' as depot staff probably know the NRM want it etc.
Maybe they could secure the interior of an original for retro fitting to 1st of class if that became a feasible project after withdrawal?
Mind you - interesting to wonder why they did not ear mark the most un-altered 313 to start with if they were planning to secure one. Unless a 1st of class is unique or symbolic in some way you would think the most unaltered if of most historic interest.
No doubt they have their reasons...
Yeah 2 of the 4tph off peak go Gordon Hill, Cuffley, Hertford North so those ones are definitely your best bet. Then again there is a train in the peak heading from Hertford North into Moorgate at 1737 that runs non stop from Gordon Hill to Alexandra Palace, might be worth a try too. That service normally runs very fast to Bowes Park and then slows down but would still be worth doing.North of Gordon Hill on the Hertford line is the best bet for 75 mph. Especially the trains that miss out some stops.
313s were the first PEPs though and are dual voltage as well.Would it not make more sense to preserve a 314 as representative of PEPs? All the features in a smaller package.
Thanks! Helpful info!Yeah 2 of the 4tph off peak go Gordon Hill, Cuffley, Hertford North so those ones are definitely your best bet. Then again there is a train in the peak heading from Hertford North into Moorgate at 1737 that runs non stop from Gordon Hill to Alexandra Palace, might be worth a try too. That service normally runs very fast to Bowes Park and then slows down but would still be worth doing.
That train used to be even faster until May. Possibly non stop to Gordon Hill? It certainly didn't stop at Bayford.Yeah 2 of the 4tph off peak go Gordon Hill, Cuffley, Hertford North so those ones are definitely your best bet. Then again there is a train in the peak heading from Hertford North into Moorgate at 1737 that runs non stop from Gordon Hill to Alexandra Palace, might be worth a try too. That service normally runs very fast to Bowes Park and then slows down but would still be worth doing.
I've got paper copies of the timetables on the Hertford Loop going back a few years. Before may 2018 there was a service that ran half hourly from Stevenage from 1751 to 1921, then at 1957, then from Hertford North half hourly from 1935 to 2105 that skipped Bayford, Crews Hill and then went non stop from Palmers Green to Finsbury Park. After may 2018 there were no longer any services that omit Alexandra Palace.That train used to be even faster until May. Possibly non stop to Gordon Hill? It certainly didn't stop at Bayford.
North of Gordon Hill on the Hertford line is the best bet for 75 mph. Especially the trains that miss out some stops.
I've got paper copies of the timetables on the Hertford Loop going back a few years. Before may 2018 there was a service that ran half hourly from Stevenage from 1751 to 1921, then at 1957, then from Hertford North half hourly from 1935 to 2105 that skipped Bayford, Crews Hill and then went non stop from Palmers Green to Finsbury Park. After may 2018 there were no longer any services that omit Alexandra Palace.
Yes there were two such trains half an hour apart. I had a couple of rides on them early last year. They certainly shifted.Pre-May 2018 there was an even contra-peak Fast Line run from Potters Bar to Finsbury Park on one...
058 is on the 0628 SVG-MOG if that helpsHopefully 313059 is out today, today might be my last chance to get it.
Hopefully 313059 is out today, today might be my last chance to get it.
313059 is paired with 041 they're both currently on Hertford North CHS 3 Road, as it stands the units have no passenger allocation besides 5E80 13+25 Hertford North - Hornsey EMUD.
Mondays move to Newport
https://live.rail-record.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/706099/15/07/19
Allegedly one to Masborough on Wednesday also.
if they would fit, then island line would be viable enough.No other TOC would want them. They are in extremely poor condition inside and out.
if they would fit, then island line would be viable enough.