Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[OmniCity999]

bowing in the body? also im assuming the ex london stock due is some off lease tower transit vn gemini 2 b9s. ensign moves arent out yet for july so part of that id guess

Where the bus has hit the bridge, it's twisted the upperdeck body and the chassis, so doesnt look good.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Where the bus has hit the bridge, it's twisted the upperdeck body and the chassis, so doesnt look good.

cant see what you mean in any of the pictures,

 

[CM]

The bowing in the body suggests to me it wont be worthy of a return to service. More London stock is due so one of those could replace it.

Lothian didnt buy these from their London operator, they were bought from a leasing company and as such Lothian never paid for the full refurbishment of the vehicles. To make them suitable for Lothian, the leasing company refurbished them (through Wrightbus), Lothian just paid a premium for them.

Pretty sure the first lot of ex-London Geminis were acquired through Ensignbus ex-Metroline who in turn acquired them with the old First London operations and back then I'd be very certain First bought them new.

 

[Darklord8899]

Where the bus has hit the bridge, it's twisted the upperdeck body and the chassis, so doesnt look good.

cant see what you mean in any of the pictures,

....I'm thinking the engineer (Omnicity999) knows what he is talking about....

 

[Jordan Adam]

The latest article from the toilet paper - oops EEN.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/traffic-and-travel/new-edinburgh-super-buses-blamed-for-wrecking-road-1-4973978

New Edinburgh 'super buses' blamed for wrecking road

NEW so-called ‘super buses’ have been blamed for tearing up a Capital road.
Photos emerged of huge marks gouged into the surface of Gilmerton Dykes Street at the bus terminus.


The damage is understood to have been repaired within days only for cracks to start appear again within hours.


One driver said: It's a gradual thing as the new buses turn around. I passed two days later and it had been repaired.


“There were cones out also. It'll happen again. It’s only just starting to break up again but not badly yet.”

Lothian Buses ploughed £11.3m into its new fleet of 42 six-wheelers earlier this year- the UK's biggest buses.

The 100-seater Alexander Dennis Enviro400 XLB vehicles were launched in March, carrying up to 129 customers each.

They were first rolled out on service 11 between Ocean Terminal and Hyvots Bank and service 16 between Silverknowes and Colinton.



The Enviro400 XLBs were designed with a front and middle door for passengers to disembark to speed up services and ease congestion.

City road chiefs attributed the damage to “wear and tear” from all vehicles with amounts of traffic on the rise.

A council spokeswoman said: “We are aware of concerns being raised by a member of the public and will continue to monitor the situation.

“The city inevitably faces significant wear and tear from increased volumes of traffic and vehicles of various sizes.”



Lothian Buses’ John White said: “Damage to the road surface in this area has been evident since before the introduction of the new Enviro400 vehicles.

“We continue to work closely with The City of Edinburgh Council, who as the Roads Authority, are directly responsible for road repairs.”

Based on our E500's up here which also lack steering rear axles this is to be expected and comes as no surprise, although i do question if the XLB's caused this or if it's just been wear over time as the road surface looks quite old and full of "bodge" repairs.

 

[ScotRail158725]

....I'm thinking the engineer (Omnicity999) knows what he is talking about....

im not doubting him i just cant see it well, no need to take things out of context

 

[A330Alex]

The latest article from the toilet paper - oops EEN.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/traffic-and-travel/new-edinburgh-super-buses-blamed-for-wrecking-road-1-4973978



Based on our E500's up here which also lack steering rear axles this is to be expected and comes as no surprise, although i do question if the XLB's caused this or if it's just been wear over time as the road surface looks quite old and full of "bodge" repairs.

Got to love how the comments manage to get a dig in at the trams as well. That just looks like a shoddy repair job more than anything!

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

What usually happens in these cases anyway, is it loss of licence or "retraining"?

While each incident is not set in stone for rules, I would assume a driver who has been charged by police for dangerous driving/driving without due care and attention, will possibly lose their licence (or heavy points) but may lose their job from driving another bus for that company.

 

[JamboCommuter]

As the driver has been charged the case is now sub judice and shouldn't be discussed on a public forum.

 

[Jordan Adam]

While each incident is not set in stone for rules, I would assume a driver who has been charged by police for dangerous driving/driving without due care and attention, will possibly lose their licence (or heavy points) but will lose their job from driving another bus for that company.

It very often it depends on the particular circumstances and what the driver says after. If they admit the blame then they're far more likely to not loose their license and be allowed back.

For example when 38220 was deroofed in Aberdeen in 2017 the driver (who resigned that night) actually would've been allowed back behind the wheel straight away and didn't get charged or given any points. The reason for this is because it was determined that the sign displaying the height as you approach the bridge was partially covered by branches so you couldn't see it and due to the road layout it was near impossible to see the sign on the bridge itself from the cab.

 

[CM]

As the driver has been charged the case is now sub judice and shouldn't be discussed on a public forum.

Until such time a big polis comes on here and tells us not to, we can discuss what we like as long as it is on topic and within the forum rules.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

The latest article from the toilet paper - oops EEN.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/traffic-and-travel/new-edinburgh-super-buses-blamed-for-wrecking-road-1-4973978

Based on our E500's up here which also lack steering rear axles this is to be expected and comes as no surprise, although i do question if the XLB's caused this or if it's just been wear over time as the road surface looks quite old and full of "bodge" repairs.

Will the EEN chip rag ever stop having a go at LB? EEN also wrong on the figures. They claim we have 42 B8Ls when we have 78 I think including the new Airlinks. Then as for the damage, that road has been in a shocking state for over a decade now and has been "tempory repaired" more times than I can remember. When they use cold patch to cover a hole and don't fix it properly, what the heck do they expect? This is down to the council not sorting the road properly in the first place.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

It very often it depends on the particular circumstances and what the driver says after. If they admit the blame then they're far more likely to not loose their license and be allowed back.

For example when 38220 was deroofed in Aberdeen in 2017 the driver (who resigned that night) actually would've been allowed back behind the wheel straight away and didn't get charged or given any points. The reason for this is because it was determined that the sign displaying the height as you approach the bridge was partially covered by branches so you couldn't see it and due to the road layout it was near impossible to see the sign on the bridge itself from the cab.

Yes, thats why I said that each each incident is different in that way but if there are reasons why a sign was not seen such as removed by vandals or hidden by tree branches, then there might be a good outcome for the driver. It might also be down to bus brake failure or such too. However I think in this case, signs still up and visible, driver just took a wrong turn. Probably used to driving singles but forgot he was on a decker.

I did however word my last part wrong and should have said may and not will. Ill edit that now

 

[Jordan Adam]

Will the EEN chip rag ever stop having a go at LB? EEN also wrong on the figures. They claim we have 42 B8Ls when we have 78 I think including the new Airlinks. Then as for the damage, that road has been in a shocking state for over a decade now and has been "tempory repaired" more times than I can remember. When they use cold patch to cover a hole and don't fix it properly, what the heck do they expect? This is down to the council not sorting the road properly in the first place.

That was my thoughts too. Although the rear tyres dragging across the surface on the XLB's will play a part in advancing wear over time, i don't think they're the primary cause here!

 

[ScotRail158725]

It very often it depends on the particular circumstances and what the driver says after. If they admit the blame then they're far more likely to not loose their license and be allowed back.

For example when 38220 was deroofed in Aberdeen in 2017 the driver (who resigned that night) actually would've been allowed back behind the wheel straight away and didn't get charged or given any points. The reason for this is because it was determined that the sign displaying the height as you approach the bridge was partially covered by branches so you couldn't see it and due to the road layout it was near impossible to see the sign on the bridge itself from the cab.

the driver didnt turn so was a lack of route knowledge id guess

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

That was my thoughts too. Although the rear tyres dragging across the surface on the XLB's will play a part in advancing wear over time, i don't think they're the primary cause here!

If the B8L was responcible here then it will also have happened at other areas within the city but has not. HGVs cause more damage yet EEN won't bat an eyelid. I still wonder why rear steer tag was not added on but they seem to be doing okay without it.

 

[JamboCommuter]

Until such time a big polis comes on here and tells us not to, we can discuss what we like as long as it is on topic and within the forum rules.

The rules of the forum don't overrule the law of the land. The driver deserves a fair trial. Comments on a forum could be prejudicial. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Jordan Adam]

the driver didnt turn so was a lack of route knowledge id guess

Indeed, i was just stating that it depends on a number of circumstances as things are often not as clear as they seem and then gave an example.

If the B8L was responcible here then it will also have happened at other areas within the city but has not. HGVs cause more damage yet EEN won't bat an eyelid. I still wonder why rear steer tag was not added on but they seem to be doing okay without it.

If you look on Stantley Road at their end you can see evidence of tyre scrub on buses particularly the XLBs. However it's normally only damage to the top surface, i can't say from our E500's up here that i've ever seen them causing "cracks and holes". It's normally just marks, although i guess that can build over time.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

The rules of the forum don't overrule the law of the land. The driver deserves a fair trial. Comments on a forum could be prejudicial. I'll leave it at that.

If this forum was press, then yes I'd agree but it is not and as such, can be discussed. Law for press says once a charge has been issued, they (press) may not write anything which could jepodise the case or that journolist could be done for contempt of court. This, is a forum. Just like twitter or facebook.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

If you look on Stantley Road at their end you can see evidence of tyre scrub on buses particularly the XLBs. However it's normally only damage to the top surface, i can't say from our E500's up here that i've ever seen them causing "cracks and holes". It's normally just marks, although i guess that can build over time.

With Stanley Road, the issue is more of the buses driving on to the kerb. This could easily be fixed by not having the pavement as wide at that part as it is. The roadway however, has not been relayed there in a very very long time. Not saying the buses are doing no damage but I think if the corner was profiled a little better it would help.

 

[Andyh82]

I don’t know why people are making a point about the driver being charged and trying to point score, it’s perfectly routine, like what would happen to any other road user.

 

[Jordan Adam]

With Stanley Road, the issue is more of the buses driving on to the kerb. This could easily be fixed by not having the pavement as wide at that part as it is. The roadway however, has not been relayed there in a very very long time. Not saying the buses are doing no damage but I think if the corner was profiled a little better it would help.

If only they could bulldoze some houses and make the junction "bigger"...

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I don’t know why people are making a point about the driver being charged and trying to point score, it’s perfectly routine, like what would happen to any other road user.

I see no one here trying to score points? (WHat is the point of trying to score points? It's not a game.). As for what happens to other road users, this depends on the incident. If it is a crash in to another car then is there a reason for a charge? In this case, there was according to the police. However, an investigation needs to take place and a full account needs to be heard before anyone knows 100% what happened. All we know is what we know and that is that the driver for some reason, took the entire roof off the bus he was in control of, and no one was killed. That last part, is for me the critical part of this whole story as if there had been passangers on that top deck...

If only they could bulldoze some houses and make the junction "bigger"...

Now, that IS an idea... lol

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

If only they could bulldoze some houses and make the junction "bigger"...

I think we’re well past the days of the 1960s haha, plus Stanley Road is lovely, we wouldn’t want to take Victorian houses away now would we?

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I think we’re well past the days of the 1960s haha, plus Stanley Road is lovely, we wouldn’t want to take Victorian houses away now would we?

I can't afford one so yes haha. Joking aside, you're right about the area though. Stunning houses. I still think if they reprofiled the corner, it would be so much better for buses. I know it might not be as good for pedestrians, however the counter argument to that is that the pavement on the other side of that road is so narrow, you can't really use it anyway so it would not have the same impact as if it were a full size pavement.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Does anyone know what the outcome of the talks between RH and CEC were? I know nothing has changed on the staff side (as far as I can tell) and no news saying strike might be called off...

 

[JamboCommuter]

If this forum was press, then yes I'd agree but it is not and as such, can be discussed. Law for press says once a charge has been issued, they (press) may not write anything which could jepodise the case or that journolist could be done for contempt of court. This, is a forum. Just like twitter or facebook.

The law talks about being discussed or reported in the media. The press clearly has far more scope to do damage than a relatively small public forum but do people really want to judge someone before the facts go to court? The law is there to protect an accused. Maybe we should respect that and leave the discussion til after the case?

 

[CM]

The law talks about being discussed or reported in the media. The press clearly has far more scope to do damage than a relatively small public forum but do people really want to judge someone before the facts go to court? The law is there to protect an accused. Maybe we should respect that and leave the discussion til after the case?

The facts are a driver drove his bus through a low bridge and tore the entire roof off the bus. It's a pretty clear cut case of driving without due care and a attention.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I can't afford one so yes haha. Joking aside, you're right about the area though. Stunning houses. I still think if they reprofiled the corner, it would be so much better for buses. I know it might not be as good for pedestrians, however the counter argument to that is that the pavement on the other side of that road is so narrow, you can't really use it anyway so it would not have the same impact as if it were a full size pavement.

Biggest problem is it’s near two Primary schools and a secondary school, many in the area find the pavements quite narrow if you have all the schools in and out at the same hours, the kids that go to Trinity Academy go to the shops there plus ASDA etc so the pavements have quite a large footfall on most days. Thing is though this was an area that once had trams that were replaced by relatively small buses in contrast to today’s XLBs. I know they’ve talked about various solutions but each of them has quite a lot of disadvantages

 

[Darklord8899]

im not doubting him i just cant see it well, no need to take things out of context

My apologies, I probably should have worded that better...
I'm with you, I couldn't tell either, but I'm a chef, not an engineer....
So was basically saying "I'll take his word for it" in a tongue in cheek manner