Trivia: Place names that you're not sure how to pronounce

[37 418]

Another example of the same is Beijing; the b being closer to a p and the j is nearer ch in church.

 

[hexagon789]

Another example of the same is Beijing; the b being closer to a p and the j is nearer ch in church.

Well it used to be transliterated as Peking; I think the system of rendering Chinese characters into English changed in the 50s or 60s which is why it's now generally Beijing.

 

[37 418]

Well it used to be transliterated as Peking; I think the system of rendering Chinese characters into English changed in the 50s or 60s which is why it's now generally Beijing.

Yes, it changed from the Wade-Giles system to the Pinyin system. With regards to Beijing, along with Azerbaijan it's another example of the BBC incorrectly using the 'zh' sound when it's incorrect.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, it changed from the Wade-Giles system to the Pinyin system. With regards to Beijing, along with Azerbaijan it's another example of the BBC incorrectly using the 'zh' sound when it's incorrect.

I've heard some pronounce it with a J-sound as Bay-jing.

 

[37 418]

I've heard some pronounce it with a J-sound as Bay-jing.

Me too, most newsreaders pronounce it with the French j sound however.

 

[hexagon789]

Me too, most newsreaders pronounce it with the French j sound however.

I tend to go for a hard J myself, but most people, newsreaders or otherwise do seem to go for the softer Zh sound.

 

[class387]

I tend to go for a hard J myself, but most people, newsreaders or otherwise do seem to go for the softer Zh sound.

Here's some sort of explanation as someone who speaks some Chinese:

The letter 'j' in Pinyin is pronounced as neither 'j' (which is 'zh' in Pinyin) nor 'zh' (which is 'r'). The closest I can describe how to pronounce 'j' would probably be as 'jy', though it isn't that accurate.

When speaking English I would just pronounce it as a hard 'j' (how it's spelt).

 

[hexagon789]

Here's some sort of explanation as someone who speaks some Chinese:

The letter 'j' in Pinyin is pronounced as neither 'j' (which is 'zh' in Pinyin) nor 'zh' (which is 'r'). The closest I can describe how to pronounce 'j' would probably be as 'jy', though it isn't that accurate.

When speaking English I would just pronounce it as a hard 'j' (how it's spelt).

I have an idea of what you mean. Something like a hard j followed by a faint y-sound approximately.

 

[class387]

I have an idea of what you mean. Something like a hard j followed by a faint y-sound approximately.

I would say the 'y' sound is dominant and there is just a slight 'j'-like sound.

If you listen to the Chinese pronunciation on this it might give you more of an idea:
https://translate.google.com/#en/zh-CN/beijing

 

[bussnapperwm]

How is Altrincham pronounced?

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

How is Altrincham pronounced?

I believe it is pronounced "all-tring-um".

 

[hexagon789]

I believe it is pronounced "all-tring-um".

You believe correctly

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

You believe correctly

My assumption was based purely off the automated announcements on the Manchester Metrolink, but obviously I couldn't be 100% certain as to how accurate they are, because many automated announcements tend to pronounce places wrong!

 

[hexagon789]

My assumption was based purely off the automated announcements on the Manchester Metrolink, but obviously I couldn't be 100% certain as to how accurate they are, because many automated announcements tend to pronounce places wrong!

Very true, but they are quite correct in this instance!

 

[daodao]

I believe it is pronounced "all-tring-um".

Not quite correct, Altrincham is pronounced "ol-tring-um". Many place names beginning Al in West Mercia are pronounced "ol..."

 

[hexagon789]

The 'ol' as in 'old'? Always thought it started with the 'Al' being pronounced to rhyme with 'ball', hence 'ALL-tring-um'.

 

[Whisky Papa]

The 'ol' as in 'old'? Always thought it started with the 'Al' being pronounced to rhyme with 'ball', hence 'ALL-tring-um'.

No, the "ol" as in "doll".

 

[InOban]

Then what's the difference? All is pronounced ol, unless there's some regional variation.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Then what's the difference? All is pronounced ol, unless there's some regional variation.

If you are indeed native to Oban, then your pronunciation of both those vowel sounds is likely to be different to how a Mancunian would pronounce them, yes.

 

[hexagon789]

No, the "ol" as in "doll".

Which can rhyme with 'all' depending where one is from.

Then what's the difference? All is pronounced ol, unless there's some regional variation.

'All' is often pronounced with a different vowel sound to 'doll' sound in much of England - north and south.

 

[2392]

Talking of how'd you pronounce names. My sat nav is brilliant as it refers to the N.Y.M.R.'s Southern terminus as Pike ering, rather than Pickering.

 

[DavidGrain]

I pronounce 'All' as 'orl'. A similar case is Alcester in Warwickshire, which no longer has a station, pronounced 'Ulster' as in Northern Ireland.

(In my native Black Country 'All of us' would be pronounced 'Orl on we')

 

[Whisky Papa]

As the above few posts demonstrate, our language is so wonderfully inconsistent that I always try and be respectful of those who have tried to master it as a second language, and I have sometimes struggled patiently to ensure I have understood what is being asked for.

One mispronunciation did catch me out, however, when a Polish gentleman appeared to be asking for a ticket (from a station in West Yorkshire) to Heathrow, and that he needed to be there within two hours!
I replied this was impossible, which puzzled him as he claimed he had done just this journey a few weeks previously.
"I change at Blackburn, is no problem".
The penny finally dropped - not Heathrow but "Cleeth-row" ie Clitheroe. On the face of it, a quite reasonable way to pronounce it, I thought.

 

[Dr_Paul]

You believe correctly

I've always pronounced in

What else would you call Holborn (apart from dropping the H, common among station staff in my youth, allowing us knowalls to wonder how the 4EPB would get to Argyll)? Ditto Southwark (as in Southern and Southwell but not Southall!) - though the "vv" is a bit Sarf Lunnen for my posh taste.

I've always pronounced it as 'Obun', with the emphasis on the 'o'. Southwark comes out as 'Suvvuck' (slight emphasis on the second syllable), and Southall as 'Sahfall' (emphasis on the first). Years back I drew up a phonetic map of London for my then girlfriend, who was a Russian-speaking Ukrainian and was having problems with the vagaries of English spelling and London pronunciation (her Soviet-era language tutor tried hard to familiarise her with the former, but left her woefully unprepared for the latter). I think it helped her find her way around.

I believe that Cosham, near Chichester, is locally pronounced 'Cozzam', and the military historian Richard Homes pronounced it that way on the telly. A bloke I knew from Amersham reckoned that Chesham should be pronounced 'Chezzum'. Also a long-gone aunt of mine from Epsom always pronounced Tolworth as 'Tollarth'.

 

[geoffk]

Anywhere in Wales...

You mean Glyndyfrdwy, Cyfronydd and Dduallt? All have stations, but not as we know them.

 

[Calthrop]

I believe that Cosham, near Chichester, is locally pronounced 'Cozzam', and the military historian Richard Homes pronounced it that way on the telly.

Whereas, if I have things rightly -- Bosham, also near Chichester, is pronounced to rhyme with "squash 'em".

You mean Glyndyfrdwy, Cyfronydd and Dduallt? All have stations, but not as we know them.

(My bolding) -- a friend of mine, and active member of the Welshpool & Llanfair Railway Society, used sometimes to pronounce this one "Sye-fro-nide"; but it was understood that this was in jest .

 

[Dibuzz]

I believe it is pronounced "all-tring-um".

I remember a radio presenter driving me mad calling it Olchin-ham in the traffic reports

 

[MarkWiles]

Going back to earlier posts, I used to live in Handsacre ("Hanzayker") and went to school in Rugeley. Many locals called it "Rudgli" or "Rudge" for short, whilst those of us with less of a local accent called it "Roodgli", always with a hard G sound. Only the BBC ever called it "Roozhlee". It's a similar thing with Hednesford. It is usually pronounced "Hensford" (short s rather than a z) but locals call it "Edgefud". Or "that ****** **** hole they cancelled my train at" if you are a regular on the Chase Line since the May timetable change.

On the Welsh debate, I have been learning Welsh for over twelve years and am lucky to know quite a few members of the Gorsedd through my work with the Dolgellau Talking Newspaper and can state that there is quite a bit of local variation in accents and emphasis on words. For example I always say I live on the milk boundary - I was taught Llefrith by my tutor who came from Trawsfynydd, but know people from Dolgellau who use Llaeth. Indeed, "Dolgellau" is pronounced "Dolgethlah" "Dolgethleh" and "Dolgethla-ih" by native Welsh speakers in the town. But never, ever "Dolgeli" or "Dolgeloo" Nor is the home of a rather nice railway model shop ever called "Betsy Cow-ed" by any locals I know and they wince whenever anyone says it. Bettus uh Coy-id isn't that difficult to say, really.

I once upset someone from Norfolk by pronouncing "Costessey" on the edge of Norwich as "Cozzy", to be told "it's not something you go swimming in, it's "Cossy". You would have thought they would have given me more credit for not calling it "Cos-tess-sea" but no, a hard z sound caused a right royal rumpus.

 

[tsr]

I believe that Cosham, near Chichester, is locally pronounced 'Cozzam', and the military historian Richard Homes pronounced it that way on the telly. A bloke I knew from Amersham reckoned that Chesham should be pronounced 'Chezzum'. Also a long-gone aunt of mine from Epsom always pronounced Tolworth as 'Tollarth'.

Pronounced Cosh-um, Chesh-‘m and Tolw’th, respectively.

Whereas, if I have things rightly -- Bosham, also near Chichester, is pronounced to rhyme with "squash 'em".

Definitely pronounced Boz-um, although many get it wrong.

Cosham and Bosham do get mixed up quite a lot, too.

 

[John Griffiths]

So what is the correct pronunciation for Alnmouth?!

Alan-mouth
Alan-muth
Al-muth
Aln-muth
Al-mouth
Aln-mouth
An-mouth
An-muth

I think I've heard just about every combination of the above including by locals. Alan-mouth seems to be most common in my experience though.

Historically, the correct pronunciation may have been Alemouth. In Hexham there is an Alemouth Road, which is the start (or finish) of the Corn Road, an 18th century turnpike road running between Hexham and Alnmouth, which was then a port specialising in grain export.