TPE Nova 1 Class 802/2 Progress

[Spartacus]

5M07 racked up a 40 minute delay around Morley today, after leaving Leeds on time.
I couldn't see an earlier problem there on RTT.
That delayed following services, one of which was terminated at Manchester Victoria.

That was 142049 throwing a wobbler on 1J11.

 

[37201xoIM]

That was 142049 throwing a wobbler on 1J11.

Hmm, someone should get rid of those units.

Oh, wait, hang on......

 

[Boysteve]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O44201/2019/09/30/advanced

So yes I do realise that on RTT the 'timed for xxx' does not mean that the service is operated by a 'xxx' before anyone starts! However, how on earth can 5M07 be timed as an Electronic Locomotive with 410 tonne trailing? I mean who on earth has calculated the sectional running times through Dewsbury for such a train???

 

[ash39]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O44201/2019/09/30/advanced

So yes I do realise that on RTT the 'timed for xxx' does not mean that the service is operated by a 'xxx' before anyone starts! However, how on earth can 5M07 be timed as an Electronic Locomotive with 410 tonne trailing? I mean who on earth has calculated the sectional running times through Dewsbury for such a train???

That timing load is for a Class 91+mk4 set. Presumably the times for the ECML section were based on that, seeing as the 802 should easily match the performance of a 225.

I'm not certain how these paths are created, but at a guess the timings for the remainder of the journey will have been manually inputted based on existing Class 185 timings.

The system can obviously only show one timing load per service. It's not the first time I've seen an electric timing load on a non-electrified route.

 

[Spartacus]

That timing load is for a Class 91+mk4 set. Presumably the times for the ECML section were based on that, seeing as the 802 should easily match the performance of a 225.

I'm not certain how these paths are created, but at a guess the timings for the remainder of the journey will have been manually inputted based on existing Class 185 timings.

The system can obviously only show one timing load per service. It's not the first time I've seen an electric timing load on a non-electrified route.

Yeah, sounds like there's been a change of timing load at York which I don't think shows with a VSTP, though normally would if it was WTT or STP.

I do wish people would quit worrying over timing loads in RTT.......

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The timing load in RTT for December for these Edinburgh-Liverpool trains is for an electric loco and 802 tons trailing.
That would be one big beast of a train...
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y33774/2019/12/18/advanced

 

[td97]

However, how on earth can 5M07 be timed as an Electronic Locomotive with 410 tonne trailing?

The December TT has timing load Electric locomotive, trailing load 802 tonnes.
Timing loads really account for nothing.
The 410 trailing load is just an IC225
(Seems LNW-GW Joint posted at a similar time)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The December TT has timing load Electric locomotive, trailing load 802 tonnes.
Timing loads really account for nothing.
The 410 trailing load is just an IC225
(Seems LNW-GW Joint posted at a similar time)

802 being the class number of the train?

 

[Boysteve]

I do wish people would quit worrying over timing loads in RTT.......

I was not worried, just curious..........................

 

[td97]

802 being the class number of the train?

Exactly

 

[Jozhua]

Wow! Been following this thread for a couple of months and passenger service Introduction happened quite suddenly. It definitely gives the impression that TPE are actually trying to get these in service quickly though, which is good!

Will these be pretty much guaranteed to be running between Manchester Victoria and Newcastle from beginning of December onwards? Or can I look forward to taking a trip on one sooner!

 

[LittleAH]

10 car 802 just gone through Mirfield

 

[gimmea50anyday]

802205 and 802203 on 5E05 45 late vice cancelled 9E05. 205 likely to be xM07 again while 203 forms the Newcastle trainer 3S01 to Edinburgh

I suspect 5E05/9E07 could become in service diagrams very soon as from what I can gather this is pencilled in for all week. Can anyone confirm?

 

[3973EXL]

5X82 Eastleigh - Acton
5Q98 Acton - Doncaster
5Q99 Doncaster - Merchant Park
802212 TPE

 

[E100]

I've had a fair trawl through the past few recent pages of the past couple of months but apologies if this has been covered.

What is the likelihood of the Cl802's being in service in strength come the December timetable switch? I have a platform level view at Newcastle courtesy of my office on the south side by the mail centre and whilst I've seen a fair few 802's coming and going including through using platform 1 a lot more in past couple of weeks, it doesn't strike me that they'll completely replace the 185's on the Newcastle route come December if only just having the odd trial run a couple of months out.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I must say I'm not overly impressed with first class. My mind might be changes once in squadron service and with catering but we will see....

I thought the same looking in as it departed Leeds. The other trains look nicer and won't be going as far

 

[tpjm]

What is the likelihood of the Cl802's being in service in strength come the December timetable switch?

TPE have now accepted almost 50% of the trains. Projecting the average beat-rate of 3 trains per 3 to 4 weeks, we’re looking at December to have all sets accepted.

The attention then comes on to crew training which feels like it’s starting to build. Once it gets moving, it will progress at a good pace, in a similar way to Nova 3. Colleagues have also been Route Learning NCL - EDB in Class 185s so that’s nicely underway.

Ultimately, to make the Dec TT work effectively, the 802s need to be in service in a decent number.

 

[E100]

TPE have now accepted almost 50% of the trains. Projecting the average beat-rate of 3 trains per 3 to 4 weeks, we’re looking at December to have all sets accepted.

The attention then comes on to crew training which feels like it’s starting to build. Once it gets moving, it will progress at a good pace, in a similar way to Nova 3. Colleagues have also been Route Learning NCL - EDB in Class 185s so that’s nicely underway.

Ultimately, to make the Dec TT work effectively, the 802s need to be in service in a decent number.

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply. Much appreciated. Very encouraged by this as someone who lives in Newcastle with family in Chester, though love a trip to Edinburgh I'm very excited.

It's also excellent to see the IEP's with the pantographs up as it seemed they were on diesel for nearly a year after a brief stint at the start due to well-known issues.

 

[modernrail]

From what I can see TPE have adopted the same seat in standard across the Nova fleet but this first unit in service has a different covering to the CAF units.

The seats in 1st on the Nova 1 look to be the same seats as in 1st on the Azuma's and GWR trains and nowhere near as good as the seats in 1st on the CAF units. Is this a one off on an early unit or are we stuck with this seat in 1st across the fleet?

If the latter, a real shame they have not managed to provide a uniform product.

 

[td97]

From what I can see TPE have adopted the same seat in standard across the Nova fleet but this first unit in service has a different covering to the CAF units.

The seats in 1st on the Nova 1 look to be the same seats as in 1st on the Azuma's and GWR trains and nowhere near as good as the seats in 1st on the CAF units. Is this a one off on an early unit or are we stuck with this seat in 1st across the fleet?

If the latter, a real shame they have not managed to provide a uniform product.

DfT wouldn't allow GWR to change much of the 802s compared to their DfT-specified 800s, presumably out of fear of GWR making a mockery of DfT with the cheap interior spec on the 800s. Same probably applies to TPE.

 

[modernrail]

DfT wouldn't allow GWR to change much of the 802s compared to their DfT-specified 800s, presumably out of fear of GWR making a mockery of DfT with the cheap interior spec on the 800s. Same probably applies to TPE.

I am not sure DfT would have had any control over this one? I am thinking maybe it was a certification issue in that these seats have all been certified for this train already and TPE found it would have been costly to certify a different seat?

In general there has been a substantial downgrade in seat design and quality of materials from original renders and possible solutions. A shame as it puts a slight dampener on what is otherwise a great time for TPE, finally becoming (in trains used if not infrastructure the trains run on) the proper high capacity intercity service it should have been for the last 20 years.

I just hope all the latent demand that is quite obviously out there finds the seats comfy enough to pile on, encourage significant further investment and relieve pressure on the M62 car park.

We should have been at this point a looooong time ago.

 

[tpjm]

I am thinking maybe it was a certification issue in that these seats have all been certified for this train already and TPE found it would have been costly to certify a different seat?

You're not far off.

The seats are identical to those on a Nova 2 or 3, except for having different covering (no leather) and a different design to the head rest area (no winged seat back and a fabric headrest). Whilst these do offer a striking visual difference, essentially the seat (and the comfort of such) isn't too dissimilar. On this basis, the figure that was quoted to make the minor changes was so excessive that it was discounted which has resulted in a different visual and is the reason that I prefer first class on Nova 2/3. Despite that, having spent a good hour in the first and standard seats on-board all three fleets, there isn't much difference.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

TPE colleagues have also been Route Learning NCL - EDB in Class 185s so that’s nicely underway.

Newcastle have been using 802s on driver training and conductor route learning. The use of a 185 on a late night jolly to craigentinny as 5E19 and back as 5M05 stopped a while ago. Off Heaton at 08:00 as 3S01 and a double traipse is running almost daily at the moment. Of course some of the conductors have also taken advantage of LNERs hospitality on their MK4, HST and 800s, enjoying some of the left over breakfasts and rear cab views where available while scrutinising maps, sectional appendices, Google earth and colleagues notes and observations....

Think I'm one of the last still to be signed off on the edinburgh route and the two conductor instructors should now be signed off ready to start training everyone else on the traction, an internal memo suggests there will be more passenger service 802s as soon as later this week.

 

[Spartacus]

802202’s out on it’s own today on 5E05 vice 9E05.

 

[ainsworth74]

Of course some of the conductors have also taken advantage of LNERs hospitality on their MK4, HST and 800s, enjoying some of the left over breakfasts and rear cab views where available while scrutinising maps, sectional appendices, Google earth and colleagues notes and observations....

Oooh it's a hard life being a TPE conductor sometimes from the sound of it

 

[gimmea50anyday]

A welcome break from working trains but watching the world pass you by sideways at 125mph can induce a little bit of tiredness...

 

[3973EXL]

5X82 Eastleigh - Acton
5Q98 Acton - Merchant Park
802213

 

[59CosG95]

5X82 Eastleigh - Acton
5Q98 Acton - Merchant Park
802213

In TPE colours?

 

[rg177]

I'm certainly looking forward to having an 802 whizz me down the ECML rather than a 185.

Maybe a little more so as yesterday 185143 was unceremoniously terminated at York on the 0900 Newcastle-Liverpool because both of the bogs were bust!

 

[3973EXL]

In TPE colours?

Yes, TPE livery.