That actually looks great. I think the EMR letters look better on red than blue.Stolen from Facebook but 43302 has already received its EMR sticker. Interesting times ahead...
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I was hoping that the transfer of LNER HST's to EMT was to tide us over until the new trains arrived, however I see from December's Modern Railways that the lunatic plan has merely been pushed back to December 2020.
I shall be giving the line a very wide berth between then and 2022.
Care to ellaborate? I thought the plan was to keep the LNER HSTs until the 804s arrive, with the 180s replacing the exGC HSTs
Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but according to Rail Magazine the 170/6 units moving to EMR will lose their centre cars, which will move to XC.
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/east-midlands-railway-plans-spring-2020-start-for-class-170s
I think it's good to see more XC capacity, as it is much needed, but I cant help but think EMR passengers won't be happy.Finally some light at the end of the tunnel! I'm guessing that the seating layout will be changed to the current XC Coach B on 170's rather than a full refurbishment til the next XC franchise is announced.
Assuming yes as regards the seating layout, that means 480 more seats added (6 x 80).
Mind you though as Coach B is unreserved, I think XC's main priority is to get the extra coaches into service.
Yes the intention appears to be to run the full timetable with 31 trains totalling 163 vehicles, the 804 order is for 33 trains and 165 vehicles*.Certainly.
According to MR:
"The arrival of the '180s' and the start of electric services between Corby and London operated by 360's from December 2020 is set to allow EMR to withdraw HST's by that point, with it's Inter-city services solely in the hands of the 180's and its class 222 Meridians."
Good luck Midlands passengers.
Finally some light at the end of the tunnel! I'm guessing that the seating layout will be changed to the current XC Coach B on 170's rather than a full refurbishment til the next XC franchise is announced.
Assuming yes as regards the seating layout, that means 480 more seats added (6 x 80).
Mind you though as Coach B is unreserved, I think XC's main priority is to get the extra coaches into service.
Correct 180s and 222s have different couplers and performance. Also the 222 is a DEMU so has different controls and driving technique.Yes the intention appears to be to run the full timetable with 31 trains totalling 163 vehicles, the 804 order is for 33 trains and 165 vehicles*.
If the 180 reliability does not improve during 2020, or the 222 declines, then things will definitely get interesting, and plenty of scope for speculation about what will happen in that scenario.
*Edit: and of course the 804 fleet will be homogenous 5-car trains, whereas the interim fleet currently has 7-car 222s that have to run around alone, and I'm guessing 180s and 222s cannot work in multiple? That's much less flexible
Will the loss of the Nottingham to Liverpool service ease the problem?But it's like robbing Peter to pay Paul, this results in EMR having a decrease in seating capacity
Also the 222 is a DEMU so has different controls and driving technique.
Seeing as the Liverpool-Nottingham service uses 158s (or 156s) rather than IC stock, no.Will the loss of the Nottingham to Liverpool service ease the problem?
Yep, one of my friends worked for Hull Trains.Are you 100% sure about that one?
But as 170s are replacing those trains, will the loss of the centre carriage cause a problem?Seeing as the Liverpool-Nottingham service uses 158s (or 156s) rather than IC stock, no.
Yep, one of my friends worked for Hull Trains.
To be fair he didn't go into detail, he just told me they were different when I asked out of curiosity. He did tell me that the performance of the 222 was superior though.As a driver? Because I’d love to hear what these control differences are.....
Yes the intention appears to be to run the full timetable with 31 trains totalling 163 vehicles, the 804 order is for 33 trains and 165 vehicles*.
If the 180 reliability does not improve during 2020, or the 222 declines, then things will definitely get interesting, and plenty of scope for speculation about what will happen in that scenario.
*Edit: and of course the 804 fleet will be homogenous 5-car trains, whereas the interim fleet currently has 7-car 222s that have to run around alone, and I'm guessing 180s and 222s cannot work in multiple? That's much less flexible
To be fair he didn't go into detail, he just told me they were different when I asked out of curiosity. He did tell me that the performance of the 222 was superior though.
As discussed in the other thread, the December 2020 timetable takes all the stops south of Kettering out of the Sheffield and Nottingham trains, and this will run with the 222s and 180s until the new units arrive. The electrics will take all the Wellingborough, Bedford and Luton passengers who are currently a large part of the load of those trains that stop there. I guess they reckon they can remove some of the peak hour extras that currently sit in Cricklewood all day, so doing that once for each peak hour saves one diagram. They will probably also run some of the current 10-car and 7-car workings as shorter formations.
The fleet goes from 233 vehicles currently to 247 next year and then 249 when the new Hitachi sets arrive.So we’re potentially going to get stuck with shorter trains? I don’t understand how that’s acceptable?
The idea is that when the electrics come into service they will take some of the passengers from stations south of Kettering who currently use the diesel services, so there should be fewer passengers wanting to use those diesel services and this may allow some of them to be shortened or removed completely. So while there will be fewer seats on diesel service, there will be more seats in total south of Kettering. Without a detailed analysis of passenger numbers and the future timetable it's not possible to say whether that will be acceptable or not.So we’re potentially going to get stuck with shorter trains? I don’t understand how that’s acceptable?
The fleet goes from 233 vehicles currently to 247 next year and then 249 when the new Hitachi sets arrive.
Currently it's:
HST 9 x 8-car = 72
HST 3 x 6-car = 18
222 6 x 7-car = 42
222 17 x 5-car = 85
222 4 x 4-car = 16
Total = 233
From December next year it is:
180 4 x 5-car = 20
222 6 x 7-car = 42
222 17 x 5-car = 85
222 4 x 4-car = 16
360 21 x 4-car = 84
Total = 247
From 2023 it is:
360 21 x 4-car = 84
804 33 x 5-car = 165
Total = 249
I'm not understanding what all the flapping is about.
As a driver? Because I’d love to hear what these control differences are.....
As discussed in the other thread, the December 2020 timetable takes all the stops south of Kettering out of the Sheffield and Nottingham trains, and this will run with the 222s and 180s until the new units arrive. The electrics will take all the Wellingborough, Bedford and Luton passengers who are currently a large part of the load of those trains that stop there. I guess they reckon they can remove some of the peak hour extras that currently sit in Cricklewood all day, so doing that once for each peak hour saves one diagram. They will probably also run some of the current 10-car and 7-car workings as shorter formations.
Okay thank you for clearing that up.A few buttons are in different places. The AWS cancellation and Emergency Brake override are big ones. Same PBC though.
So they hope that using the electric units on stopping services will mean diesel units with less stops won't need much capacity?As discussed in the other thread, the December 2020 timetable takes all the stops south of Kettering out of the Sheffield and Nottingham trains, and this will run with the 222s and 180s until the new units arrive. The electrics will take all the Wellingborough, Bedford and Luton passengers who are currently a large part of the load of those trains that stop there. I guess they reckon they can remove some of the peak hour extras that currently sit in Cricklewood all day, so doing that once for each peak hour saves one diagram. They will probably also run some of the current 10-car and 7-car workings as shorter formations.