Progress of delivery of cascaded/refurbished/PRM modified stock to TFW/Wales and Borders

[Brissle Girl]

It would make sense if they were going to wales for use as I read something saying “The welsh government has denied the need for PRM compliant trains by 2020”

They haven't "denied the need for PRM trains by 2020" - they've reluctantly accepted the inevitable, along with some other TOC's, that they can't withdraw all their non-PRM stock by the year end and still run the required service, so have requested approval to maintain some of the existing non-PRM fleet into the new year. A completely different interpretation of what is happening.
Neither, as @Cardiff123 has noted, do they intend to put these three units into service. Their number of Pacers diagrammed is reported to be reducing to only 20 out of the current fleet of 30, although for the moment the whole of the existing fleet is being maintained, which should help reliability.

 

[tomos dafis]

We know the 3 x 142s from Northern are not moving to TfW for use in passenger service, they are moving to South Wales as spare part donors
"The Welsh Govt has denied the need for PRM compliant trains by 2020?" Really? Why have TfW spent the last 15 months trying to get as much of their fleet PRM compliant as quickly as possible before 1/1/2020

Only last week ( it is on the record on video and written minutes) Welsh Government minister for economy and transport reported to the Assembly that PRM regulations come into force Jan 1st and because not all TFW trains comply all necessary paper work to apply for exemptions has been sent to Whitehall but a decision had to wait until after the election. So quite clearly the assertion that Welsh government has denied the need for PRM is utterly false and needs to be withdrawn.

 

[anamyd]

Here are some pictures aswell

Those photos only half-load, maybe try uploading smaller versions...?

 

[anamyd]

https://twitter.com/Dai_Lygad/status/1206296582028746754?s=19
Pic of them at Cardiff

Credit to Dai Lygad, I'm glad he took that! Thanks for sharing

 

[tomos dafis]

Only last week ( it is on the record on video and written minutes) Welsh Government minister for economy and transport reported to the Assembly that PRM regulations come into force Jan 1st and because not all TFW trains comply all necessary paper work to apply for exemptions has been sent to Whitehall but a decision had to wait until after the election. So quite clearly the assertion that Welsh government has denied the need for PRM is utterly false and needs to be withdrawn.

http://www.senedd.tv/Meeting/Archiv...be5b-7a658fec3356?startPos=96&autostart=True#

 

[tomos dafis]

How will they be going to TFW on “short term lease to help with the delayed 769 project” as part donors? And I have looked into the PRM and the welsh government have agreed to put it off for now so they can still run pacers while they wait for the delayed 769 project

Your second sentence here is very different from your assertion that welsh government has 'denied the need for PRM' - they have applied for derogations for several months as they KNOW stock should be PRM compliant.

 

[Cardiff123]

Only last week ( it is on the record on video and written minutes) Welsh Government minister for economy and transport reported to the Assembly that PRM regulations come into force Jan 1st and because not all TFW trains comply all necessary paper work to apply for exemptions has been sent to Whitehall but a decision had to wait until after the election. So quite clearly the assertion that Welsh government has denied the need for PRM is utterly false and needs to be withdrawn.

The fact that the poster hasn't provided a weblink to his source, or said what industry magazine he saw his quotes in, means it's made up.

 

[tomos dafis]

The fact that the poster hasn't provided a weblink to his source, or said what industry magazine he saw his quotes in, means it's made up.

absolutely and in contrast I have posted a link to the minister's statement which disproves the poster's assertion

 

[anamyd]

The fact that the poster hasn't provided a weblink to his source, or said what industry magazine he saw his quotes in, means it's made up.

After I asked him what his "reliable" source was on Twitter, he posted something else without replying to it...

 

[IamTrainsYT]

After I asked him what his "reliable" source was on Twitter, he posted something else without replying to it...

My “reliable” source is a driver for Freightliner

 

[Brissle Girl]

My “reliable” source is a driver for Freightliner

I’m glad you put reliable in quotes. A driver for a freight company is at best going to have heard anything second or third hand or on social media.

Hopefully enough of us have, including sources to the welsh government discussion on the subject, provided enough information to make it clear that it is with great reluctance that the welsh govt has accepted the inevitability that Pacers are continuing in use. Nobody has denied the need to retire pacers, there just isn’t an alternative without wholesale cancellations for the next months months, which would be a far worse option.

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Pacers on the Barry line today... and lots of complaints about 2 carriages instead of 4 and lots of trains being delayed.

Not a good start for the new timetable.

 

[anamyd]

Pacers on the Barry line today... and lots of complaints about 2 carriages instead of 4 and lots of trains being delayed.

Not a good start for the new timetable.

Hang on, I thought Pacers were supposed to be on the Rhymney line, and that the introduction of the 170s has allowed the stock they've replaced to increase capacity on other lines such as the valleys lines...? Or is it going to take a while to work out how best to use the fleet...?

 

[iantherev]

The cut off date for Pacers other than on the Rhymney/City Line services is 31Dec not today. If there’s nothing else available until then....

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Hang on, I thought Pacers were supposed to be on the Rhymney line, and that the introduction of the 170s has allowed the stock they've replaced to increase capacity on other lines such as the valleys lines...? Or is it going to take a while to work out how best to use the fleet...?

Yep, that is what I thought too.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

I’m glad you put reliable in quotes. A driver for a freight company is at best going to have heard anything second or third hand or on social media.

Hopefully enough of us have, including sources to the welsh government discussion on the subject, provided enough information to make it clear that it is with great reluctance that the welsh govt has accepted the inevitability that Pacers are continuing in use. Nobody has denied the need to retire pacers, there just isn’t an alternative without wholesale cancellations for the next months months, which would be a far worse option.

Well since he drove a leg of the run from Holbeck to Landore yesterday I beg to differ

 

[IamTrainsYT]

Anyway, back to your conversation about TFW stock, I’m going to leave this thread alone now

 

[PHILIPE]

There is 1 2xCar Pacer away from Rhymney going round the lot and also on Radyr/Corytons.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Well since he drove a leg of the run from Holbeck to Landore yesterday I beg to differ

I don't think anyone is disputing that three Pacers moved to Landore. What we're disputing is your take on the Welsh Government's stance to the position they find themselves in, which absolutely misrepresents its position.

 

[anamyd]

The cut off date for Pacers other than on the Rhymney/City Line services is 31Dec not today. If there’s nothing else available until then....

Ah OK...

 

[IamTrainsYT]

I don't think anyone is disputing that three Pacers moved to Landore. What we're disputing is your take on the Welsh Government's stance to the position they find themselves in, which absolutely misrepresents its position.

As I said in an earlier post I had looked into this and I had misread the article

 

[Jez]

Im sure I saw a pacer on the Cardiff to Pembroke Dock this morning passing Neath around 0730, usually this one is a 153! Is the Swansea-Fishguard and some of the swanlines still booked as a pacers now the timetable has changed or are they waiting until 1st January for this to change?

First Swanline this morning leaving Swansea at 06xx was a 175 (2 carriages), used to be a 150. But that's to be expected now its going to Manchester and has effectively swapped with the 0707 which now goes as far as Cardiff. The 0707 was also a 175 (3 carriages) not sure if booked or was covering for a 150 or something else.

 

[anamyd]

Im sure I saw a pacer on the Cardiff to Pembroke Dock this morning passing Neath around 0730, usually this one is a 153! Is the Swansea-Fishguard and some of the swanlines still booked as a pacers now the timetable has changed or are they waiting until 1st January for this to change?

First Swanline this morning leaving Swansea at 06xx was a 175 (2 carriages), used to be a 150. But that's to be expected now its going to Manchester and has effectively swapped with the 0707 which now goes as far as Cardiff. The 0707 was also a 175 (3 carriages) not sure if booked or was covering for a 150 or something else.

Hopefully the diagramming from the 1st of January will make a lot more sense than for the last two weeks of this year / decade

 

[Cardiff123]

If there was never going to be any significant changes to diagramming of units until 1st January, with just a few 170s operating to Maesteg and Ebbw Vale from today, TfW should not have spent the last few weeks building up passenger expectations that from today things would be so much better.
Do the press and train planning departments not talk to each other?

As usual, a massive fanfare and press operation has wrongly built up passengers expectations, only for them to be let down.

 

[anamyd]

If there was never going to be any significant changes to diagramming of units until 1st January, with just a few 170s operating to Maesteg and Ebbw Vale from today, TfW should not have spent the last few weeks building up passenger expectations that from today things would be so much better.
Do the press and train planning departments not talk to each other?

As usual, a massive fanfare and press operation has wrongly built up passengers expectations, only for them to be let down.

There was a guy on Platform 0 on the phone saying that he had just missed the "brand new train" to Ebbw Vale. To make him feel better, I told him it was 20 years old

 

[Bob Price]

TfW confirmed in a Tweet that the Northern Pacers are just for spares.
https://twitter.com/tfwrail/status/1206364060540964867?s=19

 

[anamyd]

TfW confirmed in a Tweet that the Northern Pacers are just for spares.
https://twitter.com/tfwrail/status/1206364060540964867?s=19

There we are then

 

[PHILIPE]

If there was never going to be any significant changes to diagramming of units until 1st January, with just a few 170s operating to Maesteg and Ebbw Vale from today, TfW should not have spent the last few weeks building up passenger expectations that from today things would be so much better.
Do the press and train planning departments not talk to each other?

As usual, a massive fanfare and press operation has wrongly built up passengers expectations, only for them to be let down.

The diagrams start this week but TFW have licence to work units to suit until PRM D Day

 

[Cardiff123]

The diagrams start this week but TFW have licence to work units to suit until PRM D Day

My point stands then

 

[tomos dafis]

There we are then

I passed Landore today and the ex-northern 142's were briefly visible stabled in an outside siding behind "the works" (former Landore heavy maintenance/repair building). No sign of the cascaded ex-GA 153's, must be inside being worked on.