Progress of delivery of cascaded/refurbished/PRM modified stock to TFW/Wales and Borders

[tomos dafis]

There is 1 2xCar Pacer away from Rhymney going round the lot and also on Radyr/Corytons.

I was on the 11:38 Merthyr to Bridgend (southbound of course) today which was a 143. Before getting to Cardiff Queen Street we passed two more pacers (2-car) heading North either to Aberdare, Merthyr or Treherbert and after arriving at Cardiff Central another 2-car pacer arrived behind us announced as a service from Treherbert terminating there. So that is four 2-car pacers working valleys lines at pretty much the same time away from the Rhymney/city lines.

 

[PHILIPE]

I was on the 11:38 Merthyr to Bridgend (southbound of course) today which was a 143. Before getting to Cardiff Queen Street we passed two more pacers (2-car) heading North either to Aberdare, Merthyr or Treherbert and after arriving at Cardiff Central another 2-car pacer arrived behind us announced as a service from Treherbert terminating there. So that is four 2-car pacers working valleys lines at pretty much the same time away from the Rhymney/city lines.

The diagrams are complete but it doesn't matter what works what until D Day

 

[tomos dafis]

There is 1 2xCar Pacer away from Rhymney going round the lot

Apologies, but with great repect, my post was indicating that that part of your post was misleading/incorrect

 

[PHILIPE]

Apologies, but with great repect, my post was indicating that that part of your post was misleading/incorrect

Thanks. Not to worry. Misunderstanding. I assume you have read Journey Check where the Pacers diagrams are shown in a link:-

https://tfwrail.wales/accessible-travel/train-accessibility

The "non-Rhymney" starts at the foot of Page 2

 

[sd0733]

Im sure I saw a pacer on the Cardiff to Pembroke Dock this morning passing Neath around 0730, usually this one is a 153! Is the Swansea-Fishguard and some of the swanlines still booked as a pacers now the timetable has changed or are they waiting until 1st January for this to change?

Looking back at the system for some of those, the Cardiff to Pembroke was a 142, 142077 to be precise on CF117 diagram which I believe is a Pacer diagram (presumably very temporarily and new ones will be issued pre Jan 1st). Looks like its swapped onto a 150 diagram now doing a Fishguard and back into Carmarthen at 0101 tonight.
The 3 car 175 this morning went on as the 0850 Manchester it does look to be a 175 diagram but unsure as to what its actually booked to do next as that was a set swap.

 

[Jez]

Looking back at the system for some of those, the Cardiff to Pembroke was a 142, 142077 to be precise on CF117 diagram which I believe is a Pacer diagram (presumably very temporarily and new ones will be issued pre Jan 1st). Looks like its swapped onto a 150 diagram now doing a Fishguard and back into Carmarthen at 0101 tonight.
The 3 car 175 this morning went on as the 0850 Manchester it does look to be a 175 diagram but unsure as to what its actually booked to do next as that was a set swap.

Thanks for the info. Maybe the 175 goes on to do the 09xx Cardiff-Holyhead, im sure that's what used to happen before when a 175 was booked for the service terminating in Cardiff and not going to Manchester. Cant think of anything else booked for 175 starting in Cardiff around that time.

Interesting that the morning Pembroke is a pacer now when it was previously a single 153. I think that one does HOW the following day so would need to be swapped to a 150 or 153. I assume the 0912 Cardiff-Swansea and return working and 11.00 Swansea-Fishguard are still pacers as before but will change by 1st January.

 

[Bikeman78]

They haven't "denied the need for PRM trains by 2020" - they've reluctantly accepted the inevitable, along with some other TOC's, that they can't withdraw all their non-PRM stock by the year end and still run the required service, so have requested approval to maintain some of the existing non-PRM fleet into the new year. A completely different interpretation of what is happening.
Neither, as @Cardiff123 has noted, do they intend to put these three units into service. Their number of Pacers diagrammed is reported to be reducing to only 20 out of the current fleet of 30, although for the moment the whole of the existing fleet is being maintained, which should help reliability.

All three Radyr to Coryton line diagrams were Pacers today instead of 153s. The timekeeping on the 0733/0803/1503 from Radyr was noticably better. Last week they were typically 3 or 4 minutes late by Ninian Park. Several more pairs on the Valleys network compared with last week.

 

[PHILIPE]

All three Radyr to Coryton line diagrams were Pacers today instead of 153s. The timekeeping on the 0733/0803/1503 from Radyr was noticably better. Last week they were typically 3 or 4 minutes late by Ninian Park. Several more pairs on the Valleys network compared with last week.

A 153 was only booked on one of the three

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

All three Radyr to Coryton line diagrams were Pacers today instead of 153s. The timekeeping on the 0733/0803/1503 from Radyr was noticably better. Last week they were typically 3 or 4 minutes late by Ninian Park. Several more pairs on the Valleys network compared with last week.

Oes ots?

January is the big test. The new timetable has been introduced with only a few bumps.

 

[Bikeman78]

A 153 was only booked on one of the three

I know that but in reality there were usually two or three 153s actually running on the route.

 

[Caaardiff]

I think with the current fleet situation there is a big difference between the planned traction on each diagram and what the reality is on the day. It's an ever changing situation that will gradually improve as 170's enter full service, training is complete and the reliability is improved.

 

[sd0733]

Thanks for the info. Maybe the 175 goes on to do the 09xx Cardiff-Holyhead, im sure that's what used to happen before when a 175 was booked for the service terminating in Cardiff and not going to Manchester. Cant think of anything else booked for 175 starting in Cardiff around that time.

Interesting that the morning Pembroke is a pacer now when it was previously a single 153. I think that one does HOW the following day so would need to be swapped to a 150 or 153. I assume the 0912 Cardiff-Swansea and return working and 11.00 Swansea-Fishguard are still pacers as before but will change by 1st January.

Yes that looks.to be the case the 175 now Booked to do 0922 Holyhead.

The heart of Wales unit now seems to be a 150 which comes off the overnighter from Fishguard which couples up at Carmarthen with the pacer diagram and splits again at Swansea.
The pacer doing the 05:45 Pembroke and the 150 the 06:04 Heart of Wales.
The first pacer diagram that gets it down there is a 150.today so looks like it will be fairly fluid what actually shows.

0912 Swansea is today 153325+150253, however it's a pair of CF3xx diagrams so is actually booked 2x150s.

 

[anamyd]

Just seen a photo of one of the ex-Northern 142s inside Canton depot; apparently it's on the Railways of South Wales Facebook group

 

[PHILIPE]

A pair of 153s was on the heavily loaded Chester to Crewe yesterday replacing the 150 following the re-deployment of these but today was only one

 

[sd0733]

A pair of 153s was on the heavily loaded Chester to Crewe yesterday replacing the 150 following the re-deployment of these but today was only one

When we saw it's now booked 153 pair we all wondered how long would take to short form it...expected longer than the second day! Like going back a fair few years seeing a lone 153 on it this morning.

 

[tomos dafis]

Just seen a photo of one of the ex-Northern 142s inside Canton depot; apparently it's on the Railways of South Wales Facebook group

Wow and only yesterday afternoon I passed Landore and saw them stabled there outside in a siding behind the "works". To be fair, from the train I could see two from the passing train, so one could well be at canton.

 

[hobbm013]

Wow and only yesterday afternoon I passed Landore and saw them stabled there outside in a siding behind the "works". To be fair, from the train I could see two from the passing train, so one could well be at canton.

Correct, only two continued onto Landore

 

[anamyd]

Correct, only two continued onto Landore

Ah that explains it! The same as the first three ex-GA 153s

 

[Anonymous10]

Is the redeployment why there are Pacers on West Wales line or they short of 150's and 153's

 

[PHILIPE]

Is the redeployment why there are Pacers on West Wales line or they short of 150's and 153's

Just a temporary measure for the period from the start of the timetable to the PRM date because of having to fit the old and the new diagrams into each other. You have already asked the same question on another thread

 

[CHAPS2034]

When we saw it's now booked 153 pair we all wondered how long would take to short form it...expected longer than the second day! Like going back a fair few years seeing a lone 153 on it this morning.

Will be fun if that happens on a Chester Race Day...

 

[Anonymous10]

Just a temporary measure for the period from the start of the timetable to the PRM date because of having to fit the old and the new diagrams into each other. You have already asked the same question on another thread

I'm aware I was looking for clarity on how long it is due to the shortage on valley lines ect and I think it's a better thread ?? For it no offense indented

 

[anamyd]

The British Rail Class 142 Wikipedia article is now showing that TfW Rail have a fourth parts 142 (142033). Does anyone know about this...?

 

[Brissle Girl]

The British Rail Class 142 Wikipedia article is now showing that TfW Rail have a fourth parts 142 (142033). Does anyone know about this...?

Only what is said on the pacer withdrawal thread, which seems to confirm that. That seems to be the most comprehensive source of knowledge of anything Northern pacer related so maybe a good place to look if you have any other queries.

 

[kieron]

When we saw it's now booked 153 pair we all wondered how long would take to short form it...expected longer than the second day! Like going back a fair few years seeing a lone 153 on it this morning.

I think I'm beginning to see why they decided not to use pairs of 153s on the Wrexham-Bidston line now.

 

[sw1ller]

My “reliable” source is a driver for Freightliner

haha. I’m a driver for TfW and I don’t know what’s going on!

 

[anamyd]

haha. I’m a driver for TfW and I don’t know what’s going on!

142012, 142033, 142079 and 142086 have now been acquired by your company for spare parts. 142033 was moved by road after the other three had moved by rail. Landore has been used for storage with stripping being done at Canton.

 

[Brissle Girl]

142012, 142033, 142079 and 142086 have now been acquired by your company for spare parts. 142033 was moved by road after the other three had moved by rail. Landore has been used for storage with stripping being done at Canton.

I think the comment was to the effect that why should a train driver know the ins and outs of rolling stock procurement details, rather than a further request for information about the fate of those pacers sent to South Wales.

 

[Cardiff123]

BBC News confirming that TfW Rail have got the dispensations they need to keep running Pacers and other non-PRM compliant trains into 2020. I haven't bothered copying and pasting the entire article, as the only piece of new information is:

It (TfW Rail) has been granted permission to keep using the older trains - including 30 Pacers - until the middle of 2020.

Presumably 'the middle of 2020' is until the May TT change, when TfW are hoping to finally have the 230s, 769s and Mark 4 carriages in passenger service.

BBC News - Older trains in Wales can stay on track despite new accessibility rules
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-50893156

 

[anamyd]

BBC News confirming that TfW Rail have got the dispensations they need to keep running Pacers and other non-PRM compliant trains into 2020. I haven't bothered copying and pasting the entire article, as the only piece of new information is:


Presumably 'the middle of 2020' is until the May TT change, when TfW are hoping to finally have the 230s, 769s and Mark 4 carriages in passenger service.

BBC News - Older trains in Wales can stay on track despite new accessibility rules
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-50893156

Good to have a confirmation In terms of units, those non-compliant trains total 57 units of what will soon be TfW Rail's 147 units as of 23/12/19. In other words, 13 of the 36 150s, 14 of the 18 153s, and all 30 Pacers.

So, 5-6 months to PRM modify 13 150s and 9 153s, replace 30 Pacers and 5 153s with 9 769s and 5 230s, and get the Mark 4s into service. That should be enough time, right...?