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Siemens Staines

Siemens Staines

Member
Joined
30 Jul 2015
Messages
779
Scotrail HST sets don't appear to show up, but that is a minor complaint on such a significant step forward as this.
 
Mathieu

Mathieu

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2016
Messages
245
Location
Oban
Great work! I hope there is a way to search services by unit/loco number in the near future
 
T

theblackwatch

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2006
Messages
10,713
jnjkerbin said:
Allocations and train lengths are now showing for Scotrail services.
Click to expand...

Media release about this is at https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-sc...t-train-operator-publish-real-time-train-data

ScotRail is now Britain’s first train operating company to publish data on its trains’ type and carriage length in real time.

The operator has partnered with rail information provider realtimetrains.co.uk to share live information on the use of carriages and allocation of trains.

In addition to visiting Realtime Trains, customers can still use the free app to check how many carriages their train, and how busy the service will be.

Rail enthusiasts will also be able to log on to the website to find out the unique number(s) of the train(s) in use.

Anne Gray , ScotRail’s Customer Information Strategy Manager, said:
“Keeping our customers informed in real time is key to improving their experience travelling with ScotRail.
“We are committed to finding new ways to provide even more information and this partnership will give unprecedented access to real time data.”

Tom Cairns, Owner of Realtime Trains, said:
“I’m delighted that ScotRail have agreed to be the first passenger operator to publish this data.
“This has long been one of the most commonly requested pieces of information, from both commuters and enthusiasts alike, so it is great to be able to make this available online, on demand.”
Click to expand...

I'll echo the other comments about this being great news, well done and thanks to all involved.
 
M

Mark G

Member
Joined
5 Oct 2016
Messages
160
It's been invaluable over the years so a massive thanks from me. Just a shame it can't give unit/loco allocations but hey ho.
 
The_Train

The_Train

Established Member
Joined
2 Jun 2018
Messages
4,347
Tom and the RTT team have been busy bunnies what with GBRf and now ScotRail. Absolutely superb efforts to be improving the, already fantastic, site in this way :)
 
S

samuelmorris

Established Member
Joined
18 Jul 2013
Messages
5,121
Location
Brentwood, Essex
This is spectacular news - if they're able to get it with more TOCs this'll be a really useful resource, not specifically for enthusiasts but for what I guess I'd call the 'advanced public' - joe public aren't going to be using RTT to begin with, but to know not just the formation of your train, but what particular class it is and therefore perhaps where to stand when you get to the station, or if you have the luxury of choice, which service to pick to get air-conditioned stock when the weather gets warmer, you'd be able to look at the preceding service and find out before you even set off. I really hope this spreads around, it'd save the social media teams at TOCs a lot of time and would make life easier for a lot of people. I just hope that if depot moves also show up it won't lead to an increase in unit-specific-graffiti.
 
S

StephenHunter

Established Member
Joined
22 Jul 2017
Messages
2,139
Location
London
NS in the Netherlands already have it on their app and you can find it for MAV in Hungary. Really nice to see this starting in the UK.
 
A

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,737
theblackwatch said:
Media release about this is at https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-sc...t-train-operator-publish-real-time-train-data
I'll echo the other comments about this being great news, well done and thanks to all involved.
Click to expand...
I agree that it's great that this information is being made available. I am not in any way being critical of either Realtime Trains or ScotRail, but isn't this what Darwin is for? This is the real time feed that is used by National Rail and other websites to show delays, cancellations, platforms, messages etc. For a long time it's had the capability to not only show these things but also things like the number of carriages on a train, and how busy they are predicted to be (or are). This has been / is being used by TOCs including Chiltern, TSGN and Southeastern (and I am sure many more) to enable this information to be available to websites, apps and CIS / PIS. The idea being one source of truth that gives a consistent experience.

Are there now two sources of truth, or is this actually through an enhancement to Darwin that I have missed? The last time I looked Darwin did not have class types or unit numbers, for example. Though I think it does support things like carriage attributes (where is the first class or disabled loo, for instance).
 
S

samuelmorris

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18 Jul 2013
Messages
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Location
Brentwood, Essex
alistairlees said:
I agree that it's great that this information is being made available. I am not in any way being critical of either Realtime Trains or ScotRail, but isn't this what Darwin is for? This is the real time feed that is used by National Rail and other websites to show delays, cancellations, platforms, messages etc. For a long time it's had the capability to not only show these things but also things like the number of carriages on a train, and how busy they are predicted to be (or are). This has been / is being used by TOCs including Chiltern, TSGN and Southeastern (and I am sure many more) to enable this information to be available to websites, apps and CIS / PIS. The idea being one source of truth that gives a consistent experience.

Are there now two sources of truth, or is this actually through an enhancement to Darwin that I have missed? The last time I looked Darwin did not have class types or unit numbers, for example. Though I think it does support things like carriage attributes (where is the first class or disabled loo, for instance).
Click to expand...
Darwin isn't inherently public-facing to my knowledge though? If RTT were able to obtain this data for themselves I suspect they'd have already done so - that it requires the consent of the TOC suggests there's a bit more to it than that.
 
Mathieu

Mathieu

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2016
Messages
245
Location
Oban
59CosG95 said:
Not sure if Tom's managed to get the HSTs in yet, or the 68s - I'd imagine they'd b a lot more complex to add in than units with fixed formations...
Click to expand...
I didn't word that post well, I was saying that it already does the 68s and Tom has already said he is currently working on the HST situation
 
T

Tom

Member
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
556
Location
35,000ft
Muzer said:
I've seen it on 380s and 158s so far also. I imagine there are more drawings to be added!
Click to expand...
Services operated by class 158, 380 or 385 trains will show under 'Know Your Train' at present. There are more on the way.

Siemens Staines said:
Scotrail HST sets don't appear to show up, but that is a minor complaint on such a significant step forward as this.
Click to expand...
This is a data issue at ScotRail's end.

Mathieu said:
Great work! I hope there is a way to search services by unit/loco number in the near future
Click to expand...
At some point.

Mark G said:
It's been invaluable over the years so a massive thanks from me. Just a shame it can't give unit/loco allocations but hey ho.
Click to expand...
ScotRail from today. GB Railfreight from last week. Who knows next week? (Hint: no-one)

alistairlees said:
I agree that it's great that this information is being made available. I am not in any way being critical of either Realtime Trains or ScotRail, but isn't this what Darwin is for? This is the real time feed that is used by National Rail and other websites to show delays, cancellations, platforms, messages etc. For a long time it's had the capability to not only show these things but also things like the number of carriages on a train, and how busy they are predicted to be (or are). This has been / is being used by TOCs including Chiltern, TSGN and Southeastern (and I am sure many more) to enable this information to be available to websites, apps and CIS / PIS. The idea being one source of truth that gives a consistent experience.

Are there now two sources of truth, or is this actually through an enhancement to Darwin that I have missed? The last time I looked Darwin did not have class types or unit numbers, for example. Though I think it does support things like carriage attributes (where is the first class or disabled loo, for instance).
Click to expand...
My views on Darwin are well known - the spirit of one version of the truth is a good one but the reality is that it doesn't happen. There are numerous examples of TOCs disconnected (CIS) and various third party app providers giving out different information. Therefore, Realtime Trains does not use Darwin data in any way at present and I am very open about that: https://blog.realtimetrains.com/2020/02/thoughts-on-information-during-disruption/. My view is the industry needs to get its act in order before forcing certain components of its licensing regime as there are certain components I would like to use.

Anyway, Darwin does give a relative amount of information but it does not give all the information that I want 'Know Your Train' to be able to use. TOCs usage of that facility in Darwin does tend to be variable in my experience and I'm sure that things are moving on and more TOCs will enter data into it... eventually.

ScotRail were kind enough to offer me the data and become the first passenger operator to provide this information. And that is where we are.
 
M

Mark G

Member
Joined
5 Oct 2016
Messages
160
With the GBRF and Scotrail allocations coming on-line now, could there possibly be a search facility to put the unit/engine in and it comes back with what service its allocated to? Just a thought.

Mark
 
Mathieu

Mathieu

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2016
Messages
245
Location
Oban
Mark G said:
With the GBRF and Scotrail allocations coming on-line now, could there possibly be a search facility to put the unit/engine in and it comes back with what service its allocated to? Just a thought.

Mark
Click to expand...
I asked Tom on Twitter, he said at some point yes
 
X

XC victim

Member
Joined
16 Dec 2015
Messages
150
Does anyone know if any other TOCs are planning to show allocations and formation on RealTimeTrains?
 
J

JonathanH

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29 May 2011
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18,756
hexagon789

hexagon789

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Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,775
Location
Glasgow
I only noticed it was showing ScotRail units allocations by accident this morning, and very welcome addition to the site it is too
 
T

Tom

Member
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19 Jan 2008
Messages
556
Location
35,000ft
dave87016 said:
Colas have also signed up to show their Allocations on RTT
Click to expand...
No, they haven't. For freight operator services, we are showing allocations only for services operated by GB Railfreight. You may well find, from time to time, locomotives showing that are not owned/normally operated by GBRf but that does not mean it is not a GBRf service. There is also, of course, operator error with entering schedules making a train look as if it is operated by someone else which may result in interesting outputs when combined with other feeds.

XC victim said:
Does anyone know if any other TOCs are planning to show allocations and formation on RealTimeTrains?
Click to expand...
I'm open to discussions with any of the passenger operators who may wish to publish this data on RTT.
 
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