Face coverings compulsory on public transport in England from 15 June

[MikeWM]

If certain common cold viruses do bestow a level of resistance to COVID19, that might be more of an argument for spreading them.

I wonder if anyone is doing any serious research along these lines !

There have been a couple of papers implying likely T-cell immunity for those who have had previous coronaviruses - so possibly 40-60% of the population would already be immune to, or only have a very mild version of, the current nastier virus. (An ancient equivalent would be cowpox/smallpox).

On the wider point, having a healthy and well-functioning immune system requires regular exposure to nasties. Trying to live in an entirely sterile environment (a) won't work and (b) will probably do more harm than good.

 

[Bantamzen]

The thing is why? What would be the motivation? The fact that they render the controlling state's favourite toy, CCTV, totally useless, seems counter-proof to me.

If only there was some other way to trace the population, say some form of mobile device capable of connecting to some sort of network....

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If people stayed off work with a cold and when they went to the shop etc while staying off wore a mask, the cold could near die off. How good would that be?

If it were that easy, then it would be gone in those far Eastern countries.

Tell me where you live and which window you will throw the TV out of. I could do with an extra TV.

I'll keep you posted. By the way, there may be a small ground rent charge outside of the window....

 

[Bletchleyite]

There have been a couple of papers implying likely T-cell immunity for those who have had previous coronaviruses - so possibly 40-60% of the population would already be immune to, or only have a very mild version of, the current nastier virus. (An ancient equivalent would be cowpox/smallpox).

Replied here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/have-you-had-the-virus.204490/page-2 - but in short, I agree.

 

[westv]

The thing is why? What would be the motivation? The fact that they render the controlling state's favourite toy, CCTV, totally useless, seems counter-proof to me.

I asked about CCTV on public transport at the beginning of the month and a reply said:-

Not at all. It will record how people behave, particularly when others ignore the rules. As far as identity goes, with cameras on stations they can be tracked as they alight and many town and city centre cameras have gait recognition which can lead to apprehension of offenders.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If only there was some other way to trace the population, say some form of mobile device capable of connecting to some sort of network....

That ship has sailed - Google has been tracking Android phone users near enough from day one - how long's Android been about now? Must be about 10-15 years.

 

[MikeWM]

I'd love to think it is some silly conspiracy theory, but everywhere you look now there is imagery of people wearing masks (especially on the BBC site) and it does make me wonder if there is some traction in what I'm thinking.

I've certainly noticed this also. Depending on my mood at the time, I alternate between wondering if there is indeed an agenda, and thinking it is just lazy journalistic practice ('how does the picture next to my article show there is a pandemic on? I know, make sure the person I'm photographing is wearing a mask!')

I am on the verge of throwing the TV out of the window if I see another advert or news article "celebrating" being stuck indoors....

I'm watching any 'live' TV on delay to skip all adverts, for the same reason. I have a nice old plasma TV, they don't make this sort anymore, I don't want to break it

 

[yorksrob]

You can see for yourself the lockdown is preventing the spread of illness, actually. I can't remember the last time I had a cold - I normally seem to get one every couple of months.

I must admit, I've had fewer colds over lockdown.

Those ones, yes, but only a small percentage of cold viruses (10%?) are coronaviruses, most are rhinoviruses.

Yes, my thought would be along the lines of isolating the ones that work (presumably starting off with those that are actually coronaviruses) testing them on a section of the population, then eventually spreading them to everyone if they work as expected. I'm sure most people would put up with a cold to avoid the worst effects of COVID19.

I am on the verge of throwing the TV out of the window if I see another advert or news article "celebrating" being stuck indoors....

I too am definitely getting "lockdown themed advertising fatigue".

On the wider point, having a healthy and well-functioning immune system requires regular exposure to nasties. Trying to live in an entirely sterile environment (a) won't work and (b) will probably do more harm than good.

This is very true.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

That ship has sailed - Google has been tracking Android phone users near enough from day one - how long's Android been about now? Must be about 10-15 years.

They can't track your phone if you turn it off when you're travelling.....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, my thought would be along the lines of isolating the ones that work (presumably starting off with those that are actually coronaviruses) testing them on a section of the population, then eventually spreading them to everyone if they work as expected. I'm sure most people would put up with a cold to avoid the worst effects of COVID19.

Quite possibly. After all, the very first vaccine worked on this principle - give people active cow-pox infections (which weren't fun) to prevent smallpox.

I too am definitely getting "lockdown themed advertising fatigue".

I almost exclusively watch the BBC (and listen to BBC radio) so am avoiding it

 

[Bletchleyite]

They can't track your phone if you turn it off when you're travelling.....

Yes, but that's no different to the T&T app or indeed you just conveniently omitting to tell the track and tracers about your best mate whose house you were drinking in the other day.

 

[mmh]

They can't track your phone if you turn it off when you're travelling.....

Who are they? Google couldn't care less who you are. They are only concerned about selling more advertising.

 

[GodAtum]

This is ridiculous. The Twitter moaners are one of the most frustrating types of traveller.

Anyway, TfL's stations (West Anglia overground at least) have put up posters with the "Carry water with you in hot weather" message, supplemented by a new message about being mindful of others when you remove your face covering to take a drink..

I took mine off as soon as I boarded the train to have breakfast.

 

[adc82140]

Just turn off location services and run a your browsing through a VPN. Done.

 

[kylemore]

I've just joined this discussion so I apologise if this has already been covered (pardon the pun), what is the legal definition of a "face covering" as required for travelling on public transport?

 

[Jayden99]

Very busy on the Metropolitan today, even as far out as Chesham. Almost 100% compliance with the coverings too

 

[GodAtum]

So where does this apply? let's say I'm exiting a station, can I take my mask off after the barrriers, or only when I've completely left the station? What happens if I take my mask off a few metres to the station exit?

 

[westv]

I've just joined this discussion so I apologise if this has already been covered (pardon the pun), what is the legal definition of a "face covering" as required for travelling on public transport?

I don't think there is one.

 

[westv]

Very busy on the Metropolitan today, even as far out as Chesham.

How does that compare to last week?

 

[Dave44]

For god's sake, masks do jack all to stop you getting the virus. Especially when front line workers are struggling to get them

That's correct cactustwirly. Ordinary face coverings help to prevent you spreading the disease to others if you have the disease. It will not help YOU. At least that's my understanding. A bit selfish though not to contribute to clearing up this terrible virus. It's all on statistics. If everyone follows the rules we get rid. 99.9% of the time it's not necessary but we don't know how to pick up only the odd 0.1%

 

[Jayden99]

How does that compare to last week?

While I've been commuting in an out of work at St Pancras, more often than not I've been the only person at Chesham station, at most maybe 2 or 3 others. There were maybe about 15-20 people today, and a similar number getting off. Masks were exceptionally rare in weeks past too, I wasn't wearing one for instance, so it's a very big change

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think there is one.

It's not made it into any laws yet, but basically any piece of fabric that wholly covers your mouth and nose will do in practice.

 

[MikeWM]

Just turn off location services and run a your browsing through a VPN. Done.

Sensible, but of course your mobile provider still knows where you are.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's correct cactustwirly. Ordinary face coverings help to prevent you spreading the disease to others if you have the disease. It will not help YOU. At least that's my understanding. A bit selfish though not to contribute to clearing up this terrible virus. It's all on statistics. If everyone follows the rules we get rid. 99.9% of the time it's not necessary but we don't know how to pick up only the odd 0.1%

Yes, this. Seriously, just put up with it for a few weeks and let's see if it reduces cases. If it doesn't we can always bin it off.

 

[Class195]

I’d say 90% adhered to the new rules on the two trains I caught this morning.

I did see a group of girls off shopping who refused to wear anything when challenged by the conductor but he allowed them on the train and off we went.

I’m guessing the conductors have been told not to hold the train if people don’t comply?

 

[Jayden99]

I’d say 90% adhered to the new rules on the two trains I caught this morning.

I did see a group of girls off shopping who refused to wear anything when challenged by the conductor but he allowed them on the train and off we went.

I’m guessing the conductors have been told not to hold the train if people don’t comply?

Yep, my TOC has told is we won't be backed up for delays caused by enforcing it, and that we shouldn't be trying to enforce face coverings in the first place

 

[Paul_10]

I get the feeling people who don't like or want to wear masks have an hidden insecurity of if I got a mask on, I would look out of place and be looked at. Let's be honest, at the start of this pandemic, if you see anyone with a mask on, your eyes subconsciously would look at that person as it was not usual to see at the time.

I travelled by rail just the once since lockdown began because of personal reasons and I wore a mask yet did feel a little bit out of place as most other people didn't, hopefully people will feel more confident wearing one if they see lots of other people wearing one and actually feel insecure not wearing one because they will look the odd one out.

 

[Bikeman78]

I've seen this in countless petrol stations too (as the railway doesn't want my money at the moment and I have time for some travel, I'm frequenting them rather more than usual, be that for fuel or a Costa Express and a choccy bar).

At my local Sainsburys they have erected a metal barrier so people have to make a 30m detour to get to the shop door. No idea what this achieves. The door is still only one metre wide.

 

[Dave44]

Presumably on boarding of a bus, or at the station where it is staffed. Not sure about is staffed stations - I can't imagine guards will want to start confrontations over whether passengers are wearing masks!

What will it mean if someone needs to drink on their journey? I'm thinking especially in July and August on reasonably long journeys - will people be allowed to remove masks to take on water?

Common sense must prevail I think. Find a spot where you can be 2 metres away even if you have to wait for the chance and have a drink there. Turn your face away, partially remove your face covering etc. I certainly wouldn't object to anyone doing that.

 

[Nicholas43]

It's not made it into any laws yet, but basically any piece of fabric that wholly covers your mouth and nose will do in practice.

Actually, the regulations explicitly include (at 2. Interpretation) that's it's "a covering of any type that covers a person's nose and mouth."

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I’d say 90% adhered to the new rules on the two trains I caught this morning.

I did see a group of girls off shopping who refused to wear anything when challenged by the conductor but he allowed them on the train and off we went.

I’m guessing the conductors have been told not to hold the train if people don’t comply?

The TSSA's weekly newsletter to members that went out last week stated "Please bear in mind it’s not up to you to enforce Government public health instructions – encouraging the public to comply will be done by British Transport Police and others.".