Face coverings compulsory on public transport in England from 15 June

[MikeWM]

The difference between the SI suggests that they have no intention of removing the face coverings requirement before 6 months is up, regardless of any changes in the incidence of the coroanvirus.

Of course not. Even if it goes away entirely, there’s the ‘threat of a second wave’. That can be used to carry on doing anything they feel like, and we’ll carry on thanking them for it.

 

[sheff1]

Agreed - indeed the whole rational for the compulsory wearing of of facecoverings is to help stop the spread in situations where social distancing is not possible. Ergo the public transport operators must now concede that social distancing is not possible on public transport and stop marking seats as being out of use.

You might think so but, for example, Sheffield Supertram only took ~75% of seats out of use after this legislation was announced by Shapps on 4th June.

 

[MikeWM]

I have serious doubts that the regulations have been made legally. They have been made pursuant to section 45R of the PHA 1984 without a draft of the regulations being laid before and approved by Parliament “by reason of urgency”. This does not seem to me to stack up. The regulations have been trailed since (I believe) 4 June. There has been ample time to follow the correct procedure under section 45Q (4). It clearly isn’t “urgent” if they’ve taken 10 days to prevaricate about it.

Of course, only a court can make a definitive decision on this.

You’re right of course. Even with a supine Parliament with a large government majority that would no doubt pass these anyway, creating offenses by the dictat of ministers without the approval of Parliament is exactly the sort of thing we’d call a dictatorship if other countries were doing it. It’s not acceptable.

 

[MikeWM]

In any event, way back in this thread I rather facetiously mentioned wearing a pair of underpants as a face covering. Having tried it, it actually works quite well, and is more comfortable than any of the alternatives I’ve tried. It also has the convenient side-effect of treating this with the respect it deserves. So that’s what I’ll be doing

 

[MarkyT]

No, I think the point of the masks is a political move to reassure people. As far as I can ascertain from the evidence only N95 respirators are good enough to block the virus effectively.

You're thinking from the point of view of protecting the wearer. The purpose of public wearing in enclosed spaces is to stop droplets being expelled from the mouths of wearers, some of whom may infected and contagious but asymptomatic. This is more like asking people to wear a pre-fitted handkerchief so any sneezing, coughing, or even talking represents a minimal risk to those nearby in areas where distancing is difficult or impossible. This is known as source control and is the principle of surgical masks worn in the operating theatre, to protect the patient from pathogens exhaled by the surgeon and their support staff. A surgical mask or cloth face covering can stop over 95% of droplets and aerosol being expelled from the wearer's mouth. Thus in enclosed spaces like a vehicle, if everyone wears the air is kept largely free of contamination and everyone is protected. N95s and similar are required to protect medical staff in known areas of high contamination such as COVID wards.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are not able to monitor the in-coach CCTV. There are no moniters, it just goes to "tape" (memory if you want to be pedantic)

Depends on the unit. It is certainly available to view in the guard's little office thing on Pendolinos.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My local station has a TVM on the opposite side of the small booking hall from the ticket office window. There are markings on the floor that tell you where to wait in each queue i.e. 2 metres behind the person in front of you.

The markers are laid out something like this:
View attachment 79531

Amusing though that is, the virus will indeed move far further in the direction you are facing than sideways, because you can't breathe (or cough or sneeze) out of your ear.

 

[tspaul26]

Amusing though that is, the virus will indeed move far further in the direction you are facing than sideways, because you can't breathe (or cough or sneeze) out of your ear.

Oh, it gets even better: anyone going from the station entrance to the platforms and vice versa gets to walk slap bang through the middle as well...perpendicular to the queues!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh, it gets even better: anyone going from the station entrance to the platforms and vice versa gets to walk slap bang through the middle as well...perpendicular to the queues!

I've seen this in countless petrol stations too (as the railway doesn't want my money at the moment and I have time for some travel, I'm frequenting them rather more than usual, be that for fuel or a Costa Express and a choccy bar).

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Being facetious, if it is mandatory to wear a face covering, can a naturist be refused travel if sporting a face covering and nothing else ?

(I seem to recall back when various routes for the HS1 line from Ashford to London were still under review, there was a man pictured in the Daily Mirror, approaching the ticket barriers at Charing Cross (I think) completely naked, on his way to a protest. The photo was taken from behind, with a headline followed by ‘but where did he put his ticket?’)

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

There's always one...

 

[Huntergreed]

Question, legally if onboard a train service tonight then would it be required to put the covering on at 00:00 or risk a fine?

 

[Mojo]

Question, legally if onboard a train service tonight then would it be required to put the covering on at 00:00 or risk a fine?

No, because the legislation explicitly mentions that it does not apply to journeys that commenced before 15th June.

Although, I personally would have liked it to start at, say, 03.30, as I would have thought most people would still class the first few hours after midnight as belonging to the day before.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

On a more serious note, it was mentioned upthread that for an asymptomatic Covid19 passenger, the wearing of a face-covering would likely prevent larger virus-containing droplets from being passed to other passengers. Off-topic, I know, but doesn’t that imply that the wearer will then re-breathe those same droplets, increasing the concentration of the virus-they don’t-know-they’ve-got in his/her lungs??

 

[ashkeba]

A couple of Pendolinos have been painted up with masks on the front of the train.
Seen Transdev have done the same with Buses.

That was done in Poland. Not content with the builders, now the UK is taking Polish ideas?

 

[ashkeba]

doesn’t that imply that the wearer will then re-breathe those same droplets, increasing the concentration of the virus-they don’t-know-they’ve-got in his/her lungs??

Or maybe the water condenses and dribbles down their front?

 

[infobleep]

And that it will have legal force through the National Rail Conditions of Travel.

EDIT: How could they enforce it though the NRCOT but not have it apply in Wales & Scotland immediately?

Did they ever update the National Rail Conditions of travel or was it the case of minister announces something and then someone later tells them why it can't be done that way and they forget they ever referred to it?

I did a search but only the post showed up and it's only in the National Rail Enquiries FAQs.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Does the wearing of masks apply at stations too or just on trains?

 

[startingaparty]

I am on the train at the minute and so far everyone I have seen is complying and wearing a face covering!

 

[Jamiescott1]

I am on the train at the minute and so far everyone I have seen is complying and wearing a face covering!

Same here, altho one person pulled theirs down once we'd left the station

 

[LAX54]

Real upsurge in passengers at Colchester this morning, looking out of the window where last week you could count on one hand the people waiting, this morning the platform is quite well loaded ! I would estimate 50% no more, wearing masks at this point.

 

[yorksrob]

Can anybody from the industry confirm why the railway seems to be making itself an outlier in asking people to wear face coverings in stations, rather than just on trains ?

What is the stated logic of this, particularly given that face coverings are generally only thought to be of use in reducing transmission indoors where social distancing isn't possible ?

 

[LAX54]

Can anybody from the industry confirm why the railway seems to be making itself an outlier in asking people to wear face coverings in stations, rather than just on trains ?

What is the stated logic of this, particularly given that face coverings are generally only thought to be of use in reducing transmission indoors where social distancing isn't possible ?

Looking out of the window here, would say less than 50% are wearing masks on the platform.

 

[yorksrob]

Looking out of the window here, would say less than 50% are wearing masks on the platform.

That doesn't surprise me to be honest. We're told to get to the station earlier than we would otherwise do so, therefore it seems natural that people will want to spend as long as possible breathing normally.

I'm interested in why the industry is trying to push this, when it isn't being suggested in bus stations, ferry terminals and air ports.

 

[island]

Did they ever update the National Rail Conditions of travel or was it the case of minister announces something and then someone later tells them why it can't be done that way and they forget they ever referred to it?

I did a search but only the post showed up and it's only in the National Rail Enquiries FAQs.

They didn’t; the change was made by secondary legislation under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984,

Does the wearing of masks apply at stations too or just on trains?

The legislation only requires it when boarding or on board a train.

Can anybody from the industry confirm why the railway seems to be making itself an outlier in asking people to wear face coverings in stations, rather than just on trains ?

What is the stated logic of this, particularly given that face coverings are generally only thought to be of use in reducing transmission indoors where social distancing isn't possible ?

As noted above, masks are not required in stations, so this question is asked from a false premise.

 

[yorksrob]

As noted above, masks are not required in stations, so this question is asked from a false premise.

I'm aware that wearing masks in stations is not required by legislation, which is why I'm curious about the news report on the radio which went out of its way to say that NR "would be asking passengers" to wear masks on stations.

 

[dk1]

Not so keen on the Pendolinos with yellow face masks but that might just be that I don't like yellow/white together. The GWR 800 looks very smart. I have heard a third TOC will announce their livery addition today.

 

[adc82140]

I wonder what percentage of people will have their noses sticking out of the top of their face covering, rendering them pointless?

 

[dk1]

I wonder what percentage of people will have their noses sticking out of the top of their face covering, rendering them pointless?

Especially if they where glasses. Well at least theyve made an effort I suppose.

 

[Bayum]

A couple of Pendolinos have been painted up with masks on the front of the train.
Seen Transdev have done the same with Buses.

Have you got any pictures?