England's new three-tier lockdown system

[takno]

That is all I can think of but then I sometimes find it hard to understand why you would leave your wife and 2 young kids for 3 months to jet to the other side of the world when you did the last series on zoom calls.

I don't watch it myself, but from people who do tell me it fell pretty flat last time, even compared to other shows that took the same approach. Given that nobody else is still trying to do this stuff remotely, the offer may well have been "come to the UK to do it or don't do it at all"

 

[Richard Scott]

Far, far less of a problem than the one we face.

Quite the opposite I would think, hardly anyone there had it do when it gets a grip it'll go, how they going to deal with that? Stay locked up to the outside world forever?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite the opposite I would think, hardly anyone there had it do when it gets a grip it'll go, how they going to deal with that? Stay locked up to the outside world forever?

As I said, probably proof of vaccine required to enter.

 

[DB]

As I said, probably proof of vaccine required to enter.

You are assuming that there is a vaccine before the virus has a chance run through those countries - not really a safe bet!

 

[Bletchleyite]

You are assuming that there is a vaccine before the virus has a chance run through those countries - not really a safe bet!

They keep their borders closed until then. If it's going to be possible, it won't be more than a year or so. If it's not going to be possible, then rethink.

 

[Richard Scott]

It does seem to me that this three tier system is just the Government playing s real life video game. Put this area into Tier 2, then this into 3, when is this nonsense going to end. We've tried lockdown and restrictions, the virus doesn't go away. Original aim was to allow NHS to cope, that doesn't seem to be the aim now.

 

[DB]

They keep their borders closed until then. If it's going to be possible, it won't be more than a year or so. If it's not going to be possible, then rethink.

And what would the rethink consist of? Basically keep their borders closed forever (and even that might not work), or be in the same position as they were at the begining of this, of it spreading through the population.

 

[Richard Scott]

They keep their borders closed until then. If it's going to be possible, it won't be more than a year or so. If it's not going to be possible, then rethink.

Suggest they rethink now then so they're prepared as that's what'll need to happen.

 

[Swanny200]

It does seem to me that this three tier system is just the Government playing s real life video game. Put this area into Tier 2, then this into 3, when is this nonsense going to end. We've tried lockdown and restrictions, the virus doesn't go away. Original aim was to allow NHS to cope, that doesn't seem to be the aim now.

Well they played their own version of "Whack a Mole" so why shouldn't their version of "Risk" work any better

 

[Bletchleyite]

Suggest they rethink now then so they're prepared as that's what'll need to happen.

It is probably worth starting the debate, yes, here too. However, it is likely at present a vaccine will be possible.

 

[Richard Scott]

Well they played their own version of "Whack a Mole" so why shouldn't their version of "Risk" work any better

Risk was what came to mind!

 

[Domh245]

They keep their borders closed until then. If it's going to be possible, it won't be more than a year or so. If it's not going to be possible, then rethink.

A vaccine will be available within a year, sure. The distribution of a vaccine to the extent that they can start to open up to those who've had it? Considerably longer than a year, unless they only want to open up to pensioners, clinically vulnerable people and healthcare workers

 

[Swanny200]

It seriously beggars belief, Matt Hancock on TV telling council leaders and MP's to stop playing party politics, specifically talking about Burnham's comments about Manchester, his own MP's in that area were telling him to do one, the guys he sits in parliament with, it isn't party politics, it is people's lives.

 

[DB]

It seriously beggars belief, Matt Hancock on TV telling council leaders and MP's to stop playing party politics, specifically talking about Burnham's comments about Manchester, his own MP's in that area were telling him to do one, the guys he sits in parliament with, it isn't party politics, it is people's lives.

Hancock is a man totally out of his depth, and it's becoming more and more obvious.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A vaccine will be available within a year, sure. The distribution of a vaccine to the extent that they can start to open up to those who've had it? Considerably longer than a year, unless they only want to open up to pensioners, clinically vulnerable people and healthcare workers

I suspect, like almost all other vaccines that apply to travel but aren't "required" for living in your own country, you'll be able to pay a premium to have it privately.

 

[Domh245]

I suspect, like almost all other vaccines that apply to travel but aren't "required" for living in your own country, you'll be able to pay a premium to have it privately.

Sure, but the laws of economics dictate that, at least for a while, it's going to be prohibitively expensive for most people. Super high demand and low supply, and when you're bidding against governments it's clear who's going to win

 

[Yew]

As I said, probably proof of vaccine required to enter.

This might make sense where there is an effective sterilising vaccine, and the local population cannot afford it, for example Yellow Fever in East Africa; but when we don't have those circumstances, it starts to look like locking down until the vaccine can be widely distributed to those at risk.

 

[Ianno87]

A vaccine will be available within a year, sure. The distribution of a vaccine to the extent that they can start to open up to those who've had it? Considerably longer than a year, unless they only want to open up to pensioners, clinically vulnerable people and healthcare workers

Sure, but the laws of economics dictate that, at least for a while, it's going to be prohibitively expensive for most people. Super high demand and low supply, and when you're bidding against governments it's clear who's going to win

Well, there's 7-odd billion people in the world to progressively vaccinate. That's hardly an overnight job! It'll be years.

 

[Bantamzen]

A vaccine will be available within a year, sure. The distribution of a vaccine to the extent that they can start to open up to those who've had it? Considerably longer than a year, unless they only want to open up to pensioners, clinically vulnerable people and healthcare workers

It's already been more than a bit hinted that here in the UK priority will be given to those that need it most. And it makes sense because 65-70 million vials aren't just going to drop overnight. And the same will be true of most countries, which means they will not be likely to limit entry to the people least likely to travel.

 

[Yew]

A vaccine will be available within a year, sure. The distribution of a vaccine to the extent that they can start to open up to those who've had it? Considerably longer than a year, unless they only want to open up to pensioners, clinically vulnerable people and healthcare workers

That would still be a world record, and how much damage would be caused in the meantime? Do you remember when we were promised a "vaccine by September"?

 

[packermac]

Sadly, people in China, Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam, New Zealand, Australia are laughing their heads off at comments like this.
They have stopped the virus in its tracks completely, while it seems that only viable way left in UK is herd immunity (i.e. let everyone catch it, and hope not too many die), and we cannot even wait for stage 3 vaccine test results, which should be available in a month or so. Russia has already authorised 2 vaccines.
This is a real eye opener to "western democracy and freedom".

Well Australia and New Zealand still have closed borders, not sure that would have gone down well with the" I want a foreign holiday brigade" in the UK.
The others are all Oriental nations where Covid cases are low generally. I would not wish to speculate on the possibility of this somehow being a virus that only impacts certain ethnic groups in bulk.

 

[Ianno87]

Well Australia and New Zealand still have closed borders, not sure that would have gone down well with the" I want a foreign holiday brigade" in the UK.

While we have never formally closed borders, we de-facto have done the next best thing through "essential travel only" and quarantine requirements. Foreign travel, particularly to Europe, is pretty intrinsic to our way of life (business and leisure) to close borders completely.

 

[HSTEd]

Well Australia and New Zealand still have closed borders, not sure that would have gone down well with the" I want a foreign holiday brigade" in the UK.

More pertinantly, how many battalions will have to be sent to Northern Ireland to maintain order?

 

[big_rig]

As usual, Sadiq Khan has taken less than a day to move the goalposts. He’s got the tier 2, which is insufficient to avoid the need for the circuit breaker, which gives the preview of where that goes next - the full lockdown lasting months. It might make me sound like a crank but if he doesn’t get the circuit breaker in half term I’m confident he (and SAGE) will determine the chance has been missed and the only thing satisfying them will be a full lockdown until Christmas.

Moving London to Tier Two status will, we hope, help to slow the spread of the virus, take pressure off the NHS and help avert the possibility of a full lockdown lasting months, which would be the worst possible outcome for Londoners and our economy. However, given how far the virus has already been allowed to spread across the country, I still believe we also need immediate action on a national scale – just as the Government’s own scientific advisers have recommended. That’s why I’ll continue calling for a short national circuit-breaker.

London's tier 2 restrictions aren't enough to control Covid - we need a national circuit break

If done soon, this could save thousands of lives, drive the virus down to manageable levels and buy the Government more time

inews.co.uk

 

[Mojo]

At the moment, but if it turns into Liverpool, Manchester, Lancashire, London and Essex as expected then all of a sudden its a huge number.

I don’t think there’s any expectation at the moment that London and Essex will fall into tier 3.

 

[Ianno87]

Do people think Burnham's "Foot Down" today makes a half term "circuit breaker" lockdown more or less likely?

 

[packermac]

While we have never formally closed borders, we de-facto have done the next best thing through "essential travel only" and quarantine requirements. Foreign travel, particularly to Europe, is pretty intrinsic to our way of life (business and leisure) to close borders completely.

I am not aware that those countries on the non quarantine list are/were essential travel only.

 

[bramling]

Do people think Burnham's "Foot Down" today makes a half term "circuit breaker" lockdown more or less likely?

I don’t think it will make any difference one way or other. It might kick up some trouble in the north though.

 

[brad465]

Do people think Burnham's "Foot Down" today makes a half term "circuit breaker" lockdown more or less likely?

Don't think it will make difference to whether one is implemented or not, however if there is inadequate support measures and/or more especially a wave of mass job cuts announced immediately afterwards, civil disobedience is likely (I would say non-compliance but I don't think that applies in the context of closing businesses in the same way it applies to people's behaviour).

What Burnham has shown though is a backlash among politicians and other prominent figures is inevitable if a circuit breaker is applied.

 

[yorkie]

Sadly, people in China, Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam, New Zealand, Australia are laughing their heads off at comments like this.

The people in China who were forcibly placed into Covid camps are not laughing.

I agree the wealthy in NZ and Australia will be laughing, but the poorer people are not, as the lockdowns have exaggerated pre-existing equality problems.

The local lockdowns in England will also contribute to rising inequality

They have stopped the virus in its tracks completely

For how long, do you think?

while it seems that only viable way left in UK is herd immunity (i.e. let everyone catch it, and hope not too many die)

This is hyperbole; not everyone needs to catch it. Even with our current plan of lockdowns and waiting for vaccines, the intention is only to vaccinate over 50s anyway

This is a real eye opener to "western democracy and freedom".

What is? The fact we couldn't lock people up in Covid camps, like China did?