ScotRail DOO dispute

[12CSVT]

If a DOO train is involved in an accident (eg derailment or collision) and the driver is injured who calls the signaller, protects the line, etc?

 

[313103]

If a DOO train is involved in an accident (eg derailment or collision) and the driver is injured who calls the signaller, protects the line, etc?

Providing the driver can speak and the equipment is working he/she will do so. However if he/she isnt in a position to do so it is hoped that the signaller operating the panel that the train is in will know something is amiss. If the driver is a fatality it is hoped that maybe a member of staff is travelling or that someone ie passenger on a train has a mobile to contact the emergency services.

 

[jimrbrobinson]

Providing the driver can speak and the equipment is working he/she will do so. However if he/she isnt in a position to do so it is hoped that the signaller operating the panel that the train is in will know something is amiss. If the driver is a fatality it is hoped that maybe a member of staff is travelling or that someone ie passenger on a train has a mobile to contact the emergency services.

Is it just me, or does that sound like a few too many ifs and hopes for comfort? I'm particularly thinking of some of the recent derailments (Oban) and collisions (Sudbury) where the actions and teamwork of the train-crew have been praised in the press (the word Hero used in both cases). At least with driver + guard and/or on-board catering assistant or addition ticket inspector, etc. you have more trained staff so a greater likelihood of at least one trained person being capable of taking charge and 'doing the necessary'.

From an emergency services point of view, (speaking as an ex-emergency ambulance technician) mobiles are great when a) you can get a clear signal, and b) you know exactly where you are. You don't necessarily get connected to a local 999 operator through a mobile, and in a major incident / emergency this could mean, for example, a 999 operator in Newcastle having to coordinate getting relevant information to a 999 operator in Hampshire (where caller believes they are) only to find in the end the actual incident has happened 15-20 miles into Sussex. (And yes, this sort of thing does really happen when mobiles are involved!).

 

[gingerheid]

After watching how the guard dealt with a drunk passenger that was attacking someone on a train today (quickly ran to cab without saying anything and locked self in), my mum's sympathy for Scotrail guards isn't high. Trouble is that whatever anyone thinks or says (and whatever is correct), that's the sort of thing passengers understand by the word safety.

 

[12CSVT]

After watching how the guard dealt with a drunk passenger that was attacking someone on a train today (quickly ran to cab without saying anything and locked self in), my mum's sympathy for Scotrail guards isn't high. Trouble is that whatever anyone thinks or says (and whatever is correct), that's the sort of thing passengers understand by the word safety.

Perhaps the guard had gone to use the cab telephone to call the police.
I think I'm correct in saying that if there is a situation where there is a risk of person(s) being injured, railway personnel MUST put their own safety first.

 

[Greenback]

That is correct, and not just for railway personnel!

 

[9K43]

If a DOO train is involved in an accident (eg derailment or collision) and the driver is injured who calls the signaller, protects the line, etc?

The rule book says a competant person, where you would find one of those at Ais Gill Summit at 0300hrs on a January morning.
In an advert by BR in 1988 in the newspapers said when asked this question

" Those better placed to act would take the required action. "​

Work that one out.

 

[Scotrail84]

After watching how the guard dealt with a drunk passenger that was attacking someone on a train today (quickly ran to cab without saying anything and locked self in), my mum's sympathy for Scotrail guards isn't high. Trouble is that whatever anyone thinks or says (and whatever is correct), that's the sort of thing passengers understand by the word safety.

What service was this? When and where mate?

 

[O L Leigh]

And what would you have had the guard do in that situation?

O L Leigh

 

[scotsman]

That is correct, and not just for railway personnel!

I've always been taught - put your own safety first, then that of your passengers.

I'm not a Guard, but I'm encouraged to monitor a level crossing from the right hand side as we approach it - as the Guard monitors it from the left - and if anything happens we can ensure we get the details of the light jumper (as it usually is). (Also because I will be a Guard some time in the hopefully not too distant future)

Extra crew onboard will always help.

 

[9K43]

At Leeds City Station a couple of years ago, the guard on the DMU stopped two drunks fighting on his train.
Some while later, someone made a complaint about how this guard went about this seperation.
As a result this guard was diciplined by management and taken off guarding and given a job carriage cleaning at Neville Hill Depot.

 

[Greenback]

I've always been taught - put your own safety first, then that of your passengers.

I have been taught the same as a postman, on the railway and in every other job I;ve ever had. Only do something if you believe it is safe to do so is now a bit of a mantra!

I'm not a Guard, but I'm encouraged to monitor a level crossing from the right hand side as we approach it - as the Guard monitors it from the left - and if anything happens we can ensure we get the details of the light jumper (as it usually is). (Also because I will be a Guard some time in the hopefully not too distant future)

Extra crew onboard will always help.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Originally Iw as against industrial action in this case, mostly on the basis that DOO with a 2nd crew member is already firmly established in Strathclyde, but I am being persuaded that I was worng by reading some of the recent posts.

I now think that the second member of staff should be trained and paid as a guard, whether or not they actually operate the doors.