Class 707 to Southeastern Dates

[py_megapixel]

They definitely only had vinyl applied on the doors and various other markings added. No point covering one shade of blue with another.

Comparing Electrostars | Southeastern Class 377/5 'Electrost… | Flickr

Looks like different shades of blue to me, with 377518 retaining the FirstGroup blue.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. (That's not to say redundant re-vinyling hasn't been done before, but in this case it clearly hasn't)

 

[Goldfish62]

The ex FCC 377s are still in first group blue with SE vinyl on the doors. 377163/164 are in Southern Livery with Southeastern logos.

Fair enough - thanks.

However, I still don't see why the 707s wouldn't be revinyled unless DFT has put a ban on relivery which clearly it hasn't as yet.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Fair enough - thanks.

However, I still don't see why the 707s wouldn't be revinyled unless DFT has put a ban on relivery which clearly it hasn't as yet.

What’s the point? Passengers don’t want / need paint or vinyl. They need air conditioning in this case or to have a train that runs on time. A slammer unit could turn up in all black with “Northern Rail” written on the side and people wouldn’t complain.

 

[Goldfish62]

What’s the point? Passengers don’t want / need paint or vinyl. They need air conditioning in this case or to have a train that runs on time. A slammer unit could turn up in all black with “Northern Rail” written on the side and people wouldn’t complain.

What’s the point? Passengers don’t want / need paint or vinyl. They need air conditioning in this case or to have a train that runs on time. A slammer unit could turn up in all black with “Northern Rail” written on the side and people wouldn’t complain.

I think you've missed the point somewhat...

 

[Horizon22]

The 700s are cleared for all Dartford routes aren't they - and these are near identical.

Still no word then on what is going when these are in service? The fact they are having to be stored at Ashford as no sidings space near London shows how lacking SE are in the London suburban area for sidings space.

They are, but only tend to use via Blackheath and via Sidcup in disruption / diversionary circumstances and even then rarely the latter.

 

[physics34]

Comparing Electrostars | Southeastern Class 377/5 'Electrost… | Flickr

Looks like different shades of blue to me, with 377518 retaining the FirstGroup blue.

Yep i think SE got lucky. The first group 'purple/blue' closely resembles SE blue. It is noticeable but only just. The first group purple paint is starting to bubble up in places near windows where rust is starting to appear

 

[JammyJames08]

I suspect the 707 fleet will replace the 465/2s and all of the two cars. Numbers add up perfectly.

465235 to 465250 is sixteen four car units which totals 64 carriages. Then you’ve got 43 two cars which is 86 more.

64 + 86 = 150

 

[Class 466]

Realtime Trains | Departures from Sevenoaks between 0200 and 0159 on 13/01/2021

Train information at Sevenoaks between 0200 and 0159 on 13/01/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Test runs in for Wednesday.

 

[DA1]

Realtime Trains | Departures from Sevenoaks between 0200 and 0159 on 13/01/2021

Train information at Sevenoaks between 0200 and 0159 on 13/01/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Test runs in for Wednesday.

What are the purpose of these test runs?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

What are the purpose of these test runs?

They’re called brake handling or practical handling. One assumes managers / driver instructors will be driving these, as they can then be passed competent and go on to teach others at Home Depots in the London metro area.

Test runs for 378s ran between Ashford and Redhill (albeit GBRf did those and the purpose was mileage accumulation); Ashford to Sevenoaks is logical for Southeastern as capacity is freed up at the moment and the first pair had to be delivered there. There’s also a training school at Ashford.

 

[RealTrains07]

I suspect the 707 fleet will replace the 465/2s and all of the two cars. Numbers add up perfectly.

465235 to 465250 is sixteen four car units which totals 64 carriages. Then you’ve got 43 two cars which is 86 more.

64 + 86 = 150

The 707s have no toilets still though. Which may prove problematic replacing trains with toilets

 

[Roast Veg]

I suspect the 707 fleet will replace the 465/2s and all of the two cars. Numbers add up perfectly.

465235 to 465250 is sixteen four car units which totals 64 carriages. Then you’ve got 43 two cars which is 86 more.

64 + 86 = 150

That plan doesn't free up enough units to work branches surely? Plus it reduces quite a few diagrams from 10 to 8 car. The 466s would still be required in ordinary times.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

That plan doesn't free up enough units to work branches surely? Plus it reduces quite a few diagrams from 10 to 8 car. The 466s would still be required in ordinary times.

You assume that trains can’t run in shorter formations etc with Covid for a while. Don’t get me wrong I think the 465/2 units are toast; but I’m sure they want the rest gone too.

 

[Roast Veg]

It is a pity that the only other Angel subclass is the /9s which are unlikely to be departing because of their toilets. If there is any depot space at all I might expect a 466 or two for Bromley North to stick around.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

It is a pity that the only other Angel subclass is the /9s which are unlikely to be departing because of their toilets. If there is any depot space at all I might expect a 466 or two for Bromley North to stick around.

Or just use whatever they have kicking about. 375/3, 465, 376. Anything they fancy.

 

[Roast Veg]

Or just use whatever they have kicking about. 375/3, 465, 376. Anything they fancy.

Not if those units are needed elsewhere - short forming something else for the sake of Bromley North would be madness!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Or just use whatever they have kicking about. 375/3, 465, 376. Anything they fancy.

Indeed, small subfleets (such as two or three 466s for Bromley) are often said on this forum to be an operational nuisance, and I can see why.

 

[ComUtoR]

Realtime Trains | Departures from Sevenoaks between 0200 and 0159 on 13/01/2021

Train information at Sevenoaks between 0200 and 0159 on 13/01/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It's important to remember that these are "Q" paths and only run when required

 

[Juniper Driver]

and so it begins

Ah 3 and 4 have gone over...

 

[Class 466]

It is a pity that the only other Angel subclass is the /9s which are unlikely to be departing because of their toilets. If there is any depot space at all I might expect a 466 or two for Bromley North to stick around.

The Bromley North Branch has been 465 since 1st January anyway...

 

[Milo T.K]

I suspect the 707 fleet will replace the 465/2s and all of the two cars. Numbers add up perfectly.

465235 to 465250 is sixteen four car units which totals 64 carriages. Then you’ve got 43 two cars which is 86 more.

64 + 86 = 150

707s are for capacity enhancement since when there is no covid southeastern gets overcrowded

 

[Juniper Driver]

They’re called brake handling or practical handling. One assumes managers / driver instructors will be driving these, as they can then be passed competent and go on to teach others at Home Depots in the London metro area.

Test runs for 378s ran between Ashford and Redhill (albeit GBRf did those and the purpose was mileage accumulation); Ashford to Sevenoaks is logical for Southeastern as capacity is freed up at the moment and the first pair had to be delivered there. There’s also a training school at Ashford.

701's test runs are for various reasons also...

 

[P790TP]

Realtime Trains | Departures from Sevenoaks between 0200 and 0159 on 13/01/2021

Train information at Sevenoaks between 0200 and 0159 on 13/01/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It's important to remember that these are "Q" paths and only run when required

Yes, these are not expected to go ahead on Wednesday, but some runs may happen on Saturday (nothing on RTT yet).

Also, plans may be changing/have changed on which stock the 707s be replacing. Although it was originally going to be 465/466s, it is looking more likely that 376s will be replaced. Can't see why though - still yet to be confirmed.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, these are not expected to go ahead on Wednesday, but some runs may happen on Saturday (nothing on RTT yet).

Also, plans may be changing/have changed on which stock the 707s be replacing. Although it was originally going to be 465/466s, it is looking more likely that 376s will be replaced. Can't see why though - still yet to be confirmed.

Looking at Roger Ford's annual fleet reliability round-up the 376s are Southeastern's most unreliable train, although that's relative as the Networkers are aren't great either.

I think only one thing is certain: the intended use of the 707s at the time of agreed transfer (pre-Covid) is not necessarily going to be what they will actually be used for, be it fleet expansion or displacement of older stock.

 

[londonteacher]

It's a shame because for metro work the 376s are great.

A mix of 376s, 707s and 465/6s for metro would make sense and then the 465s could be used to extend more mainline services that are already using them. Although not 100% needed at the moment, will undoubtedly useful for social distancing and future proofing.

 

[hwl]

Yes, these are not expected to go ahead on Wednesday, but some runs may happen on Saturday (nothing on RTT yet).

Also, plans may be changing/have changed on which stock the 707s be replacing. Although it was originally going to be 465/466s, it is looking more likely that 376s will be replaced. Can't see why though - still yet to be confirmed.

376s are the ideal battery EMU conversion victims for Uckfield 171 replacement as there is more space for battery that most electrostars (or other EMUs)

 

[Domh245]

376s are the ideal battery EMU conversion victims for Uckfield 171 replacement as there is more space for battery that most electrostars (or other EMUs)

Is there much more room though? They're 4/5 cars motored, and even the trailer car looks to have a relatively congested underframe (as with the other electrostars). And that's before considering the speed and interior fitments or lack thereof

 

[hwl]

Is there much more room though? They're 4/5 cars motored, and even the trailer car looks to have a relatively congested underframe (as with the other electrostars). And that's before considering the speed and interior fitments or lack thereof

Probably better phrased as more potential, stuff will need moving around as per 769 diesel engine fitting.
Interiors are an issue to put it mildly but the Uckfield services did provide useful standing capacity between East Croydon and London Bridge.

 

[43096]

376s are the ideal battery EMU conversion victims for Uckfield 171 replacement as there is more space for battery that most electrostars (or other EMUs)

Ironically, the Desiros are probably even better as they have only two cars motored, so on a 707 there’s space under 3 cars for batteries/engines/bionic duckweed kit.

 

[hwl]

Ironically, the Desiros are probably even better as they have only two cars motored, so on a 707 there’s space under 3 cars for batteries/engines/bionic duckweed kit.

Agreed (ignoring transformer or deadweight) . I suspect re-engineering for battery would see a reduction in the number of half motored cars (4 --> 2 or 3?) with batteries on 2/3 vehicles.