Class 707 to Southeastern Dates

[4-SUB 4732]

It's a shame because for metro work the 376s are great.

A mix of 376s, 707s and 465/6s for metro would make sense and then the 465s could be used to extend more mainline services that are already using them. Although not 100% needed at the moment, will undoubtedly useful for social distancing and future proofing.

We shall have to see. 376s I have no doubt will be going to Southern as was mentioned probably now over a year ago.

 

[Class 466]

376s are the ideal battery EMU conversion victims for Uckfield 171 replacement as there is more space for battery that most electrostars (or other EMUs)

This has been mooted/looked at before and isn’t happening. 376s aren’t going anywhere (for starters 30x707s won’t replace 36x376s). There’s no evidence to suggest they are leaving at all.

 

[Fincra5]

We shall have to see. 376s I have no doubt will be going to Southern as was mentioned probably now over a year ago.

Was rumored way back to replace 313s but I can't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[OTRail]

Was rumored way back to replace 313s but I can't see that happening anytime soon.

I think that will fall to the 458/5s released by SWR in all honesty.

Back to the 707s - I thought they were the last to be released by SWR? Or was the plan always unchanged for the 707s to be released first?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Was rumored way back to replace 313s but I can't see that happening anytime soon.

I don't think they're booked to work down that way; I think they displace some 377/3s and 377/4s (the ones that would be better on the Coast with their 2+2 decent seats) down there and then work Metro. Although the old rumour was the redundant coach underneath would be made into a super-duper engine carriage...
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I think that will fall to the 458/5s released by SWR in all honesty.

Back to the 707s - I thought they were the last to be released by SWR? Or was the plan always unchanged for the 707s to be released first?

Now the Government are in charge I believe they're just cracking on with the 707s going.

 

[Fincra5]

I don't think they're booked to work down that way; I think they displace some 377/3s and 377/4s (the ones that would be better on the Coast with their 2+2 decent seats) down there and then work Metro. Although the old rumour was the redundant coach underneath would be made into a super-duper engine carriage...
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Now the Government are in charge I believe they're just cracking on with the 707s going.

376s cant be used DOO on SN Metro (Lack of In-cab DOO Equipment).

 

[AverageTD]

I think that will fall to the 458/5s released by SWR in all honesty.

Back to the 707s - I thought they were the last to be released by SWR? Or was the plan always unchanged for the 707s to be released first?

Jesus couldn't save the 458s after what SWR have done to them honestly. iirc the 707s were meant to be 2nd behind the 458s but the delays of various stock entering service for SWR has pressed the 458s to remain in service for the foreseeable future.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Jesus couldn't save the 458s after what SWR have done to them honestly. iirc the 707s were meant to be 2nd behind the 458s but the delays of various stock entering service for SWR has pressed the 458s to remain in service for the foreseeable future.

I'm baffled. What have SWR done to the 458's?

 

[westcoaster]

They’re called brake handling or practical handling. One assumes managers / driver instructors will be driving these, as they can then be passed competent and go on to teach others at Home Depots in the London metro area.

Test runs for 378s ran between Ashford and Redhill (albeit GBRf did those and the purpose was mileage accumulation); Ashford to Sevenoaks is logical for Southeastern as capacity is freed up at the moment and the first pair had to be delivered there. There’s also a training school at Ashford.

One thing to remember is that alot of SE drivers at orpington already know the desiro cities as they previously drove 700's. Although full training will be given they already have the knowledge on the units.

 

[Domh245]

I'm baffled. What have SWR done to the 458's?

The bare minimum, apparently!

 

[Juniper Driver]

One thing to remember is that alot of SE drivers at orpington already know the desiro cities as they previously drove 700's. Although full training will be given they already have the knowledge on the units.

So that would be a one-day conversion, then?

 

[AverageTD]

I'm baffled. What have SWR done to the 458's?

They're in a dire state, although they were never the sharpest tool in the shed, since the rebrand in 2018ish they've become a pretty unpleasant place on the inside. Toilets either not working, seat cushions falling off etc. I highly doubt SWR anticipated them making it to 2021.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm baffled. What have SWR done to the 458's?

Completely neglected them it would appear.

The state of what were previously very good trains is appalling, they run on my local line and have more comfortable seats than 450s but now the non-carpet floors are filthy, the red seat covers are stained and worn, ex First class is extremely tatty, the PIS and toilets hardly ever work and on a less important note but still noteable the train uses around five different door open chimes that wail at the same time creating a crescendo of high-pitched racket. I cannot see them surviving beyond SWR.

 

[P790TP]

So that would be a one-day conversion, then?

No, although it's easier to convert to the 707s, it is still a 7 day course for everyone.

 

[Juniper Driver]

No, although it's easier to convert to the 707s, it is still a 7 day course for everyone.

I had a four-day course.

They're in a dire state, although they were never the sharpest tool in the shed, since the rebrand in 2018ish they've become a pretty unpleasant place on the inside. Toilets either not working, seat cushions falling off etc. I highly doubt SWR anticipated them making it to 2021.

Probably true but the toilets have always been hit-and-miss and under the current situation with lower passenger numbers it's probably not high in the priority to keep them really nice looking… Plus they should be gone by now as you say…

The P.I.S is a different problem run by a computer which is 20 years old. We have new codes, but it's still a problem and sometimes between short stations it goes out of sync. I'm pretty sure new announcements have been added to the P.I.S system also. Slowing it down more or helping it go out of sync... Door chimes shouldn't really be too much of a problem even if they aren't all the same to any sane person. There was a time on 455's when they didn't have door chimes. Never noticed a problem with the door chimes in my experience even if they are different sounding within the class. They were meant to be gone, but the current situation has changed all that.

 

[Aictos]

Ironically, the Desiros are probably even better as they have only two cars motored, so on a 707 there’s space under 3 cars for batteries/engines/bionic duckweed kit.

I'm sure the Class 376s only have the driving vehicles motored as I see them daily and they look to be motor - trailer x 3 - motor.

I can't comment on the 707s as I don't encounter them on a daily basis

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I'm sure the Class 376s only have the driving vehicles motored as I see them daily and they look to be motor - trailer x 3 - motor.

I can't comment on the 707s as I don't encounter them on a daily basis

Without going off topic, 376s I think are 4 x motor. In theory the centre pantograph coach would be the one to be filled with a diesel engine.

 

[Domh245]

I'm sure the Class 376s only have the driving vehicles motored as I see them daily and they look to be motor - trailer x 3 - motor.

I can't comment on the 707s as I don't encounter them on a daily basis

707s are DM-(P)T-T-T-DM - 2 of 5 motored
376s are DM-M-(P)T-M-DM - 4 of 5 motored, same formation as all subsequent 5 car electrostars

 

[Goldfish62]

Completely neglected them it would appear.

The state of what were previously very good trains is appalling, they run on my local line and have more comfortable seats than 450s but now the non-carpet floors are filthy, the red seat covers are stained and worn, ex First class is extremely tatty, the PIS and toilets hardly ever work and on a less important note but still noteable the train uses around five different door open chimes that wail at the same time creating a crescendo of high-pitched racket. I cannot see them surviving beyond SWR.

They also run on my local line and I have the opposite impression! I'd say they are much cleaner inside than under SWT. The floors are never going to be at their cleanest at this time of year, but with SWT (deep clean once every nine months) they were filthy all year round. A few years ago one guard told me he was embarrassed to be working on such filthy trains.

The toilets, although still poor, are at least working some of the time now - SWT practically locked them of use permanently. The PIS has always been rubbish. Yes 1st Class is worn, but that's the fault of SWT/DfT for it not being touched during the five-car project. The one issue I'd put at SWR's door is not repairing broken double glazing seals. I imagine they'll have to do this before return to the leasing company (just as SWT finally got the external destination displays on the 456s finally working in the final weeks of their franchise).

 

[Wolfie]

Completely neglected them it would appear.

The state of what were previously very good trains is appalling, they run on my local line and have more comfortable seats than 450s but now the non-carpet floors are filthy, the red seat covers are stained and worn, ex First class is extremely tatty, the PIS and toilets hardly ever work and on a less important note but still noteable the train uses around five different door open chimes that wail at the same time creating a crescendo of high-pitched racket. I cannot see them surviving beyond SWR.

That'll cost them some serious money when they go off lease then.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

That'll cost them some serious money when they go off lease then.

Will the hand back deal with the DaFT to which they've already agreed a settlement include future liabilities with the ROSCOs, if not us the taxpayers will be footing the bill

 

[Aictos]

707s are DM-(P)T-T-T-DM - 2 of 5 motored
376s are DM-M-(P)T-M-DM - 4 of 5 motored, same formation as all subsequent 5 car electrostars

How come I only see the two driving vehicles with 3rd rail shoes then?

 

[Recessio]

Any update on when we'll see 707s in SE service?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Any update on when we'll see 707s in SE service?

In a long time.

 

[physics34]

Any update on when we'll see 707s in SE service?

There will be issues with driver training because of covid for a start so it wont be for a while

 

[Domh245]

How come I only see the two driving vehicles with 3rd rail shoes then?

Because they're bussed, even a normal 4 car 377 with 3 motor cars only has 2 vehicles with shoegear. This post shows the traction wiring for a standard 4 car electrostar, I believe the 5 cars are identical with the addition of a second 'MOS' between the PTOSL and DMOS(B). I can't think of any stock with 'self contained' motor vehicles with each requiring a set of shoegear

 

[Recessio]

Thanks for the update. Hopefully the benefits of the newer stock can be realised asap, even if covid makes us wait a while.

Because they're bussed, even a normal 4 car 377 with 3 motor cars only has 2 vehicles with shoegear. This post shows the traction wiring for a standard 4 car electrostar, I believe the 5 cars are identical with the addition of a second 'MOS' between the PTOSL and DMOS(B). I can't think of any stock with 'self contained' motor vehicles with each requiring a set of shoegear

Wikipedia claims the 313, no idea if that is accurate though as the 313 article appears to be original research.

 

[Fincra5]

Thanks for the update. Hopefully the benefits of the newer stock can be realised asap, even if covid makes us wait a while.

Wikipedia claims the 313, no idea if that is accurate though as the 313 article appears to be original research.

313s used to be. The SN ones so 313/2s have a power bus throughout.

 

[hwl]

I believe the 5 cars are identical with the addition of a second 'MOS' between the PTOSL and DMOS(B).

Generally correct but the 378s have some "extra" motors overall with 3 powered axles per car in some cases.

 

[P790TP]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...359?stp=S&show=non-passenger&order=wtt&toc=SE

Driver training runs planned for Saturday from Ashford to Sevenoaks.