EMR Class 360's

[DG85]

What units are currently serviced at Bedford Cauldwell depot ?
I was under the impression the depot was not suitable for the TL 700 fleet and it hadn't been used since 379s had left.
But maybe I'm wrong.

I assume you mean the 319s?

Bedford Cauldwell depot would be perfect if they can source the facilities needed to carry out all the refurbs.

 

[Energy]

There’s also the leasing Co’s to deal with. EMR & Abellio will have had experience of dealing with Angel Trains before and will no doubt have picked up a good deal. The 379s however... there’s a reason why Macquarie European Rail Leasing were once dubbed the Vampire leasing co. High Prices and contact only when they want to...

Indeed, Angel also own the 720s for GA. What are Macquarie's new owner Akiem like and if Macquarie is so bad why was it chosen over another ROSCO, maybe the only choice or they just didn't know? Worth noting that is was owned by Lloyds then and was later sold to Macquarie in 2012.

 

[fgwrich]

Indeed, Angel also own the 720s for GA. What are Macquarie's new owner Akiem like and if Macquarie is so bad why was it chosen over another ROSCO, maybe the only choice or they just didn't know? Worth noting that is was owned by Lloyds then and was later sold to Macquarie in 2012.

They were no doubtably alright as Lloyds, but since the sale to Macquarie, things seem to have gone a little stale between TOC and Lessor. It doesn't help that Macquarie is based in Australia and since it's sale of Selkent & East London Buses back to Stagecoach (a deal in which Macquarie lost out considerably), has probably added to their retreat in the UK.

 

[Energy]

They were no doubtably alright as Lloyds, but since the sale to Macquarie, things seem to have gone a little stale between TOC and Lessor. It doesn't help that Macquarie is based in Australia and since it's sale of Selkent & East London Buses back to Stagecoach (a deal in which Macquarie lost out considerably), has probably added to their retreat in the UK.

Hopefully now its owned by Akiem it will be better. Anyway the 360s are going to EMr not the 379s, shame it will be a while till refurb...

 

[Kneedown]

To be fair I don't think the interior of the 360's is all that bad. Quite a nice ambience inside. I think the priority is to rectify all the little glitches that they arrived with. Being stabled with the pans down in cold and damp hasn't helped.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Huh?

The 'round trip' from Wellingborough to London comparable with the £47.50 single fare you have quoted is £49.50, not £95. There appears to be a cheaper day return at the weekends.

The use of 360s does not justify a lower fare relative to other suitable rolling stock just because they don't have a pointy end.

Sorry that I couldn't follow NRES don't have much practice (status pass)

However, the thrust of my argument was to compare fares from Wellingborough, 65 miles from London, by Desiro with that from Northampton (66 miles from London, by Desiro), and pointing out that the fare from the former was much higher fares and lack of weekdays reductions. One might expect the market for London travel from either station to be similar - they are about 12 miles apart - and demand being price elastic, and the expectation that 12 car trains on the Corby line will be filled in the peak. (talking 'normal', of course). The reference to Avanti fares in pointy trains was to show the service level needed to support the high fares.

The current imbalance is because of the basic service pattern which has one Nottingham service calling at Wellingborough, Kettering and Market Harborough and the other at MH only, with the Corby providing the other service to the other two stations. The new timetable will have regular half-hourly service to Corby (calling at Wellingborough and Kettering), Nottingham (calling at MH and at least one at Kettering - can't remember if it's both) and Sheffield (non-stop to Leicester). So each of those stations will have a half-hourly service or something close to one.

If there's a platform constraint at St Pancras, it's because (leaving aside recent temporary changes) the Nottingham fast is an HST so doesn't interwork with Meridians on other services, and the timetable means it has to occupy a platform for an hour or more before its next journey. In future Nottingham and Sheffield trains will use compatible stock, and even if they don't interwork I suspect the Nottingham in one direction will be pushed round the clock so it spends more of its turnaround time in Nottingham and less at St Pancras.

Thank you for the explanation.

I thought I had read (but might have been mistaken) that there was an obligation for there to "always be" a Corby train in the platform at St. Pancras. I accept that this is not meant literally (perhaps for 20 minutes of the half-hour) but it is presumably connected with the obvious difficulty of accommodating the passenger numbers completely to fill a 12 coach passenger on what passes for a concourse for the MML Platforms. Of course, all changed by the unlikelihood of such passenger numbers returning in the near future, but it would appear to be a serious constraint on platform occupancy because the 12 car trains would require sole occupancy of a platform.

 

[fgwrich]

To be fair I don't think the interior of the 360's is all that bad. Quite a nice ambience inside. I think the priority is to rectify all the little glitches that they arrived with. Being stabled with the pans down in cold and damp hasn't helped.

Indeed, Siemens certainly did well with them as we can tell you over here on the South Western side - regular care meant the SWT interior lasted well for well over 15 years, whereas the equivalent products from Bombardier on Southern have had numerous refurbishments.

Could we also keep the fare related posts to the fare related section please?

 

[43055]

Thank you for the explanation.

I thought I had read (but might have been mistaken) that there was an obligation for there to "always be" a Corby train in the platform at St. Pancras. I accept that this is not meant literally (perhaps for 20 minutes of the half-hour) but it is presumably connected with the obvious difficulty of accommodating the passenger numbers completely to fill a 12 coach passenger on what passes for a concourse for the MML Platforms. Of course, all changed by the unlikelihood of such passenger numbers returning in the near future, but it would appear to be a serious constraint on platform occupancy because the 12 car trains would require sole occupancy of a platform.

If the current departure times are kept then it is most likely be a 20-25 min turnaround in London. ie departures at 17 & 47 and arrivals around 25 & 55.

 

[Dan15812]

Indeed, Siemens certainly did well with them as we can tell you over here on the South Western side - regular care meant the SWT interior lasted well for well over 15 years, whereas the equivalent products from Bombardier on Southern have had numerous refurbishments.

Could we also keep the fare related posts to the fare related section please?

Yes your absolutely right.
I think Siemens were more forward thinking at the time as the Desiros have far more easier to clean surfaces throughout. Which some may they are more dull perhaps.

Wheareas the electrostars may be a little more interesting in design but a far harder to clean throughout. Meaning the age more quickly.

 

[AM9]

I was passing Radlett this morning at about 10:00 this morning when I saw a 360 in GA livery, on the up fast running at about 50mph. I can see that there was 9T21 heading that way and it crossed from up slow to up fast at Radlett junction, so maybe the 360 had to slow to allow that to happen. I can't find any record of a non-Thameslink up train around that time on RTT except those from way beyond Kettering. Does anybody know what that could have been?

 

[Chiltern006]

when the EMR electrics brand comes in, will the Intercity service be stopping at the stations that it serves from Kettering-London or will that be down to the 360s? cheers

 

[59CosG95]

when the EMR electrics brand comes in, will the Intercity service be stopping at the stations that it serves from Kettering-London or will that be down to the 360s? cheers

No. Once the 360s enter passenger service and the timetable is changed, the first stop for EMR IC services will be Kettering. No more calls at Luton Airport Pkwy, Luton Town, Bedford or Wellingborough.

 

[43055]

I was passing Radlett this morning at about 10:00 this morning when I saw a 360 in GA livery, on the up fast running at about 50mph. I can see that there was 9T21 heading that way and it crossed from up slow to up fast at Radlett junction, so maybe the 360 had to slow to allow that to happen. I can't find any record of a non-Thameslink up train around that time on RTT except those from way beyond Kettering. Does anybody know what that could have been?

Most likely this which is hiding under the CAN button (Planned cancelation) but actually ran: Realtime Trains - 3Y60 0848 Kettering Stabling Sidings to Kentish Town

 

[43074]

No. Once the 360s enter passenger service and the timetable is changed, the first stop for EMR IC services will be Kettering. No more calls at Luton Airport Pkwy, Luton Town, Bedford or Wellingborough.

There will still be a few trains which accommodate the peak flows from Bedford/Wellingborough to Leicester and likewise early arrivals from the Midlands to Luton Airport, but in most hours there will not be intercity calls at those stations.

 

[westcoaster]

Thameslink use Cauldwell Depot (or at least sidings there) for 700 stabling but not the servicing facilities. There are a number of workings into and out of the depot each day

Realtime Trains | Departures from Bedford Cauldwell Depot between 0200 and 0159 on 04/02/2021

Train information at Bedford Cauldwell Depot between 0200 and 0159 on 04/02/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

A look at a satellite picture shows why the depot isn't any use for fixed formation 8- or 12-car units, the buildings being suited for 4-car units.

I think there was some sort of reorganisation to allow 12-car units to be stabled there as there is an awkward disconnect between the 14 8-car roads in Bedford Carriage Sidings and the 12-car operation of Bedford to Gatwick / Brighton services.

700's are washed, cleaned and tanked at cauldwell.

Some internal work currently happening for EMR to share the shed.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can I remind posters to keep to topic please - EMR Class 360s.

Thank You

 

[AM9]

Most likely this which is hiding under the CAN button (Planned cancelation) but actually ran: Realtime Trains - 3Y60 0848 Kettering Stabling Sidings to Kentish Town

Thanks for that, I didn't think of looking at 'cancelled' trains. So if it was still in GA livery, does it mean that it won't be running much until that's been changed?

 

[Domh245]

So if it was still in GA livery, does it mean that it won't be running much until that's been changed?

They'll be running around in GA livery (frequently) on driver training runs. Indeed based on what's been said about them launching with the old interior, I wouldn't be surprised if they also launched un-repainted and aubergine units didn't start appearing until several months after

 

[Kneedown]

Thanks for that, I didn't think of looking at 'cancelled' trains. So if it was still in GA livery, does it mean that it won't be running much until that's been changed?

3Y60 sounds about right for the time. With the current training plan it normally runs Tues, Thurs and Fri. Worked it myself on Thurs for TM training purposes.

 

[swt_passenger]

when the EMR electrics brand comes in, will the Intercity service be stopping at the stations that it serves from Kettering-London or will that be down to the 360s? cheers

Please see the consultation doc attached here:

EMR December 2020 Timetable Consultation

EMR have published it's proposals for December 2020. The main change is the introduction of the electric services between London and Corby, and on the Regional side Derby to Nottingham increasing to 4tph (2tph XC and 2 EMR) by extending Crewe services to Newark Castle instead of the Matlock...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bald Rick]

There will still be a few trains which accommodate the peak flows from Bedford/Wellingborough to Leicester and likewise early arrivals from the Midlands to Luton Airport, but in most hours there will not be intercity calls at those stations.

All becomes clear in a few weeks when the timetable is published!

 

[47584Suffolk]

All Class 360 Units have now been cascaded to EMR.

360111 was the last to leave GA. On 20/1, 360111 took itself from Clacton to Ilford for repairs prior to moving on to EMR. For the record, can anyone please advise when and how '111 got to Cricklewood from Ilford? Thanks.

 

[Supercoss]

111 and 117 Hauled from Ilford by GBRf. Last Monday

 

[Railperf]

111 and 117 Hauled from Ilford by GBRf. Last Monday

Wasn't 111 hauled by 117. There was a 'live' 360 hauling a dead one.

 

[Kite159]

It's a shame there isn't a way the 360s could reach Northampton under their own power

(Unless there is a plan to go into St Pancras low level, reverse to reach Finsbury Park before another reversal to take the North London Line to reach the WCML).

(Also for the IC calls at the stations south of Kettering, would they still get calls on Sundays, or is the plan to have 2tph to Corby)

 

[SouthEastBuses]

When Market Harborough gets electrified, will the Class 360s also run to Market Harborough?

 

[MML]

I doubt it. 360s will be dedicated to London to Corby services via Kettering.
Electrification further north on the MML will only be used by the Aurora bimode units once delivered.

 

[Nym]

Unless of course it reaches Leicester and we see a bit of a re-cast of priorities in terms of stopping patterns. Potentially splitting services at Kettering.

Or at a push, sling some batteries under the 360s.

 

[43074]

(Also for the IC calls at the stations south of Kettering, would they still get calls on Sundays, or is the plan to have 2tph to Corby)

Sunday mornings they get 2tph because of capacity constraints south of Bedford during the planned two track railway periods for maintenance, from about midday the Corby services start running and the Intercities don't call as they don't on weekdays and Saturdays.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Unless of course it reaches Leicester and we see a bit of a re-cast of priorities in terms of stopping patterns. Potentially splitting services at Kettering.

Or at a push, sling some batteries under the 360s.

It's not just the wires reaching Leicester, I think there are capacity issues that need to be resolved too. NR published a report about Leicester last year that's worth a skim through, it does talk about a 5th service from the South eg Bedford-Nottingham

Given there are already 4tph Leicester-StP so this is really the question of demand for travel from the East Mids to places like Bedford, Lutons and St Albans.

However, the structure of the EMR timetable recast is basically saying that they don't believe it's significant enough to provide direct services and continuing with something like the current Notts semi fast... And they presumably had the ticket data?