DB through the tunnel this year?

[Csalem]

Well one would hope the best Irish pubs are in Ireland, otherwise our culture and society is then a very fickle and easily transported thing!

 

[jon0844]

And given that Germany knows a thing or two about beer, what's the harm in going to a German pub!!

If you want an Irish pub, go to Ireland.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

As I've said before, there'll never be Deutsche Bahn through services between Germany and London.

DB will have to deal with UK passport agency and the British government. Can you really see passport checks undertaken on board trains again on their way to the Tunnel ? It's either that or the east German style checks we see at Brussels repeated at each of the station en route from Germany.

There WILL be D.B. services from St. Pancras to German destinations - and possibly Dutch ones too. Do not wallow in that north African river (de Nile).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

DB plans to test run an ICE from Germany to St Pancras is encouraging. A through service would be welcome. But just how would it work with UK immigration ?

And what about passengers boarding at Cologne and travelling as far as Brussels ? Would they be subject to UK passport control ? Or would the controls take place on the train after it had left Brussels / Lille ?

Don't work in government. But if I did, I'd lobby the UK to join Schengen and end this farce of a UK border control at Brussels and elsewhere !!

It would work exactly as present Eurostar services work now. Passengers regularly travel between Paris/Brussels and Lille/Calais Frethun. Between these stations Eurostar is treated pretty much as a domestic service albeit with stringent security checks at the point of embarkation. It's only in this stupid country that Eurostar is not permitted to allow people to travel between St. Pancras and Ebbslfleet/Ashford and return.

 

[shinkansen1966]

It would work exactly as present Eurostar services work now. Passengers regularly travel between Paris/Brussels and Lille/Calais Frethun. Between these stations Eurostar is treated pretty much as a domestic service albeit with stringent security checks at the point of embarkation. It's only in this stupid country that Eurostar is not permitted to allow people to travel between St. Pancras and Ebbslfleet/Ashford and return.

Let's say DB extend their existing ICE Frankfurt->Koln->Brussels service beyond and on to St Pancras. So far so good.

At the moment, passengers join this ICE service just a few minutes prior to departure. Just like boarding any other train (except Eurostar).

If this ICE service is extended to London, does that mean passengers then have to arrive Koln Hbf 30 mins beforehand to clear security and passport even if they want to go only as far as Aachen? Previously, they turned up a few mins beforehand. I don't see this working....

If DB proceeds with a through ICE service, my guess it the service will pick up Frankfurt, Koln and Aachen and then run non stop to Ebbsfleet and London. This will be an additional service to existing Eurostar and ICE services. That deserves to succeed.

PS.... exactly why are Eurostar not permitted to carry passengers domestically within the UK. What's the risk of a passenger boarding at St Pancras and alighting at Ashford ?

 

[gordonthemoron]

I think the way forward is for DB to start the train at Munich, then run non-stop to St Pancras

 

[j0hn0]

I think the way forward is for DB to start the train at Munich, then run non-stop to St Pancras

high speed sleeper, I like it

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I have heard a whisper ( as yet unsubstantiated, I must stress ) that the proposed ICE tests on HS1 could take place as soon as the middle of this month...


Edited: Just been told it's 19th October...

 

[466.networkers]

I have heard a whisper ( as yet unsubstantiated, I must stress ) that the proposed ICE tests on HS1 could take place as soon as the middle of this month...


Edited: Just been told it's 19th October...

I've seen it's on the 17th October ... should get confirmation nearer the time.

 

[Csalem]

Normally one would suggest don't trust these dates as tests rarely seem to happen on the day they are scheduled to, but since the Germans are involved...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, I've since seen stories about the 17th as well, involving the train being brought through overnight, dragged to St Pancras, kept in platform 5 all day and then returned overnight.

The 17th is a Sunday, the 19th is a Tuesday. Which makes the most sense do you think?

 

[Goldfish62]

There WILL be D.B. services from St. Pancras to German destinations - and possibly Dutch ones too. Do not wallow in that north African river (de Nile).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Agreed - it WILL happen despite the ridiculous border controls at St Pancras which had me at boiling point earlier this week.

 

[brianthegiant]

Whilst I would welcome joining shengen. However, there is a small compensation for the hassle of border controls, which is that the eurostar standard class departure lounges are arguably better what you would get if there was direct platform access & a minimal waiting room. (if you've ever had the misfortune to use the standard class Thalys waiting room at Brussels Midi...? it's arguably worse than birmingham new st)

 

[shinkansen1966]

I'd like Eurostar to be treated as any other train. Not screened off as if it were going to some distance planet. Get rid of the border controls, security screens, identikit coffee shops and faux duty free. Just have Eurostar waiting to receive passengers at one of the normal Brussels/Paris platforms just like the Thalys.

Then you could casually stroll upto the platform a few mins before departure. Just like Thalys. Quite why Eurostar is a special case, is quite beyond me. It's a train. Treat it like one.

 

[jon0844]

I think brianthegiant makes a valid point, and I wouldn't have a problem with international departures retaining the separate departure lounge (and arrivals, with the option of having customs officers there as normal) to separate Eurostar and others from the regular suburban/national services. You could also keep the security screening if you wanted.

It's really the passport checking that messes everything up.

 

[Drsatan]

I'd like Eurostar to be treated as any other train. Not screened off as if it were going to some distance planet. Get rid of the border controls, security screens, identikit coffee shops and faux duty free. Just have Eurostar waiting to receive passengers at one of the normal Brussels/Paris platforms just like the Thalys.

But if customs and immigration controls were to be abolished for Eurostar services, then wouldn't the airline industry demand the abolition of border controls for short-haul flights?

 

[jon0844]

I don't have a problem with keeping customs - but it's getting rid of passport control. Given we don't even check people going out, we're half way there anyway! Of course that should apply at airports too.

By all means keep customs and even the security X-ray machines, as neither stop you from freely travelling around and doing away with passport/border controls.

Abroad, you'll find many airports where passport controls only exist in some terminals for a handful of gates - to/from the UK. Everyone else travels freely like we do for internal flights. Everyone still has customs though upon arrival.

 

[tripleseis]

Grauniad article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/19/london-frankfurt-train-high-speed

They say it will be the 19th October they will run a DB train to St Pancras. I guess the station will be full of spotters and photters then!

 

[gordonthemoron]

Because the DB train will be formed by two locomotives bolted together

I think they mean two EMUs coupled together :roll:

DB's ICE trains are among the most comfortable trains in the world, being designed to tempt German businessmen out of their BMWs and Mercedes

German autobahns are so ****, I don't think they'd need much persuading. However, air travel within germany is often quicker than using the train

 

[shinkansen1966]

Given the UK's Kafkesque immigration and security requirments, expect DB to run a one/twice daily service fom Frankfurt, Cologne and Aachen to pick up passengers only, then onto St Pancras. Cologne to London could be as little as 3 hrs 35 mins.

DB can then offer numerous through fares from other parts of Germany into the Frankfurt-Cologne-St Pancras service. Both and Munich and Berlin would be 8 hrs away from London with a change at Frankfurt or Cologne.

One way fares... say €89. Know I'd rather spend 4 hours on ICE than 2 on Ryanair.

 

[jon0844]

Ryanair is fine once you're flying, it's all the hassle on the ground - both from checking in to the mess that is baggage collection at airports like Stansted. And if anything goes wrong, you can then play 'hunt the member of staff'. A fun game, for about the first 30 minutes and then somewhat frustrating as you realise that you can't win.

The Guardian article does rightly point out that for a business traveller, from the moment you've cleared security (which is very quick and painless), then entered the business lounge and subsequently made the shortish walk to the platform and your seat, you're ready to work or rest without hassle. At the other end, it's a case of getting off the train and walking out.

There's really little competition from the airlines where there's a train alternative (and now, I don't mean Ryanair but perhaps the likes of Lufthansa, as you might take to/from Germany). Obviously if you need to make many connections, and sit around twiddling your thumbs for ages between trains, then flying will always be more appealing - especially to those on business who won't want to do that (even if they may be used to getting connecting flights at airports). I'd hope that, and expect that, any onward connections would be timed around the incoming train from St Pancras to minimise waiting times.

If they do that, they've got a definite winner on their hands. If they don't, the airlines will still be able to argue their case quite easily.

 

[Goldfish62]

Given the UK's Kafkesque immigration and security requirments, expect DB to run a one/twice daily service fom Frankfurt, Cologne and Aachen to pick up passengers only, then onto St Pancras. Cologne to London could be as little as 3 hrs 35 mins.

DB can then offer numerous through fares from other parts of Germany into the Frankfurt-Cologne-St Pancras service. Both and Munich and Berlin would be 8 hrs away from London with a change at Frankfurt or Cologne.

One way fares... say €89. Know I'd rather spend 4 hours on ICE than 2 on Ryanair.

€89 is exactly what I paid coming back from Berlin to St Pancras last week. The connecting Brussels ICE was held for our late running service at Cologne, which bodes well for the future if the new service is to connect with others at Cologne and Frankfurt.

 

[EWS 58038]

Two sets.... One for Frankfurt.... One for the Venice of the North perhaps?

 

[gordonthemoron]

I agree that joing a Frankfurt set to an Amsterdam set at Brussels or Lille would be a good plan

 

[route101]

89 is exactly what I paid coming back from Berlin to St Pancras last week. The connecting Brussels ICE was held for our late running service at Cologne, which bodes well for the future if the new service is to connect with others at Cologne and Frankfurt.

You were good to get that fare , i looked at berlin to london and all i got was nearer the 300 euro mark. Easyjet it was.

 

[Goldfish62]

You were good to get that fare , i looked at berlin to london and all i got was nearer the 300 euro mark. Easyjet it was.

Select the London Specials link on the Bahn website then you can access the cheap fares. They start from €49 one way.

 

[williamn]

Does anyone know what time the ICE will be at St P on the 19th?

 

[anthony263]

Does anyone know what time the ICE will be at St P on the 19th?

I have been told, although it isnt confirmed it may be some time after midday probably early afternoon

 

[I T S]

I have been told, although it isnt confirmed it may be some time after midday probably early afternoon

Whats the story with getting on the platforms for pictures of the ICE? I've been told St Pancras is mad for this kind of thing and they dont allow it... Anyone wish to give their views?

I T S

 

[jon0844]

There will no doubt be plenty of members of the press there on that day, so I think you'll be okay.

 

[I T S]

There will no doubt be plenty of members of the press there on that day, so I think you'll be okay.

That's good. All being well I'll make a trip over to the UK to get a shot of the first!