I'd have thought the West Midlands devolved transport body would decide local electrification priorities in its area.
Diesels in New St and the approach tunnels are a factor in environmental planning, but there's a long way to go yet with XC and other diesel services.
Avanti will at least be using bi-modes from next year.
WMT and TfW may one day regret going for a diesel-only solution.
The route also suffers from a low line speed.
It's quite a few years (10+?) since 90mph instead of 70mph was planned, and a lot of route work was done plus resignalling (bar Shrewsbury).
But the line speed upgrade fell by the wayside, while TfW did manage to upgrade to 90mph from Shrewsbury towards Gobowen.
It wouldn't just be TfW saying no if you cutback the welsh services at Wolverhampton there would be an public outcry across Shropshire, Mid and North Wales.TfW would likely say no, and sorting P6 at Wolves would be far from cheap.
My narrower "Limited-clearance/(slightly) reduced speed" pantograph is the answer to all these problems across the whole country. Forth Bridge? Southern/South Coast tunnels? Just do it.Electrification hasn’t been looked at full stop.
In any event, conductor bar is not a solution for low clearance. It is a solution for low maintenance / high reliability.
Yes, but the Chase Line electrification also enabled the removal of a lot of diesel operation under the wires beyond Walsall, at least as far as New Street. Walsall alone has around 1.5 million passengers per year.It wouldn't just be TfW saying no if you cutback the welsh services at Wolverhampton there would be an public outcry across Shropshire, Mid and North Wales.
Also for a bit if context
The Chase Line was electrified for over £110m (one figure mentioned closer to £200m).
The stations on the Chase line had in total 875 thousand passengers in 18/19
The stations on the SHR-WLV line had in total 4.8 million passengers in 18/19 (including Shrewsbury)
That's over four and a half times more passengers if the line had been electrified instead of the Chase Line.
There are nearly 2 million passengers using the telford stations alone (WLN OKN TFC)
It didn't remove a lot of diesel running. There was 1tph diesel New Street to Rugeley TV all other services to Walsall were electric. Shrewsbury to New Street was the same 1tph.Yes, but the Chase Line electrification also enabled the removal of a lot of diesel operation under the wires beyond Walsall, at least as far as New Street. Walsall alone has around 1.5 million passengers per year.
An admittedly cursory glance at Wikipedia suggests that this is completely incorrect - do you have a source for this?The stations on the Chase line had in total 875 thousand passengers in 18/19
It always seemed an odd one to me to do though.Yes, but the Chase Line electrification also enabled the removal of a lot of diesel operation under the wires beyond Walsall, at least as far as New Street. Walsall alone has around 1.5 million passengers per year.
An admittedly cursory glance at Wikipedia suggests that this is completely incorrect - do you have a source for this?
NLC | TLC | Station Name | 1819 Entries & Exits |
1141 | BLX | Bloxwich | 49,186 |
1018 | BWN | Bloxwich North | 47,238 |
1017 | LAW | Landywood | 96,902 |
1016 | CAO | Cannock | 208,260 |
1148 | HNF | Hednesford | 173,906 |
1135 | RGT | Rugeley Town | 114,660 |
1084 | RGL | Rugeley Trent Valley | 183,008 |
NLC | TLC | Station Name | 1819 Entries & Exits |
4387 | SHR | Shrewsbury | 2,226,302 |
4690 | WLN | Wellington (Shropshire) | 698,712 |
4689 | OKN | Oakengates | 73,438 |
4691 | TFC | Telford Central | 1,198,384 |
4619 | SFN | Shifnal | 187,162 |
4617 | COS | Cosford | 87,414 |
4614 | ALB | Albrighton | 101,548 |
4616 | CSL | Codsall | 125,222 |
4618 | BBK | Bilbrook | 133,688 |
You've missed off all the stations south of Bloxwich though!Office of road and Rail Estimates of Station Usage 2018-2019
Chase Line
NLC TLC Station Name 1819 Entries & Exits 1141 BLX Bloxwich 49,186 1018 BWN Bloxwich North 47,238 1017 LAW Landywood 96,902 1016 CAO Cannock 208,260 1148 HNF Hednesford 173,906 1135 RGT Rugeley Town 114,660 1084 RGL Rugeley Trent Valley 183,008
Versus Shrewsbury Line
NLC TLC Station Name 1819 Entries & Exits 4387 SHR Shrewsbury 2,226,302 4690 WLN Wellington (Shropshire) 698,712 4689 OKN Oakengates 73,438 4691 TFC Telford Central 1,198,384 4619 SFN Shifnal 187,162 4617 COS Cosford 87,414 4614 ALB Albrighton 101,548 4616 CSL Codsall 125,222 4618 BBK Bilbrook 133,688
Everything south of Bloxwich already had an electric service though?You've missed off all the stations south of Bloxwich though!
That adds to the case - if a line is already partially electrified it makes far more sense to do the remaining bit as opposed to something like Shrewsbury, which poses a significant resignalling problem. And it's not like passengers on the already-electrified section didn't use the diesel services before electrification.Everything south of Bloxwich already had an electric service though?
Shrewsbury will have to be resignalled at some point regardless of any electrification proposals.That adds to the case - if a line is already partially electrified it makes far more sense to do the remaining bit as opposed to something like Shrewsbury, which poses a significant resignalling problem. And it's not like passengers on the already-electrified section didn't use the diesel services before electrification.
I agree, but it makes electrification harder and explains why relatively simple 'easy wins' like the Chase Line are prioritised instead imo.Shrewsbury will have to be resignalled at some point regardless of any electrification proposals.
Was the Chase line a simple win? Over budget, with some suggestions of £200m, delayed by two years.I agree, but it makes electrification harder and explains why relatively simple 'easy wins' like the Chase Line are prioritised instead imo.
That adds to the case - if a line is already partially electrified it makes far more sense to do the remaining bit
Yes, and Network Rail said it would be uneconomical. I also think the signal box is a listed buildingForgive me, but Shrewsbury does not appear to be an extraordinarily complex layout, is there a reason resignalling is constantly put off?
Is is simply the most complex semaphore layout remaining?
The diesel services don't stop at all stations though, whereas, IIRC, Chase Line services do, providing I think half of the service? So only using stats for the northern bit of the line is disengenous (and you've assumed that all Shrewsbury's passengers are going to Wolves as well. I'm not sure the 'four times the passengers' claim is anywhere near accurate).Was the Chase line a simple win? Over budget, with some suggestions of £200m, delayed by two years.
Should I have included figures for the line between Wolverhampton and Birmingham. The diesel services stop at stations like Smethwick GB, Sandwell and Dudley and Dudley Port.
It is strange that Chase Line is seen as a simple win while others suggest that Shrewsbury Line services with over 4x usage should be curtailed at Wolverhampton because of 12 miles of diesels running under wires.
Of course re-signalling Shrewsbury is the elephant in the room. It has been on the cards for years. I recall one scheme probably 30 years ago where the 'power' box would be in the main station building off Platform 3 and Severn Bridge Junction SB would be demolished to allow for track rationalisation, cant have any custom diamond crossing in the layout.
Chase line services are fast between New Street and Tame Bridge. Wolves-Walsalls serve the likes of Hamstead etc.The diesel services don't stop at all stations though, whereas, IIRC, Chase Line services do, providing I think half of the service? So only using stats for the northern bit of the line is disengenous (and you've assumed that all Shrewsbury's passengers are going to Wolves as well. I'm not sure the 'four times the passengers' claim is anywhere near accurate).
Look, I don't think the Chase Line makes the most sense if any line in the country needs to be electrified, but it's easier than doing Shrewsbury and gives a fairly equivalent result (although I did put 'easy wins' in quote marks - it's a term bandied around a lot and usually indicates the opposite, so I didn't mean that literally).
The box was listed in 1991. At the time it was threatened with demolition as part of the then rationalisation/re-signalling plan.Yes, and Network Rail said it would be uneconomical. I also think the signal box is a listed building
Fair point, thanks for the correction.Chase line services are fast between New Street and Tame Bridge. Wolves-Walsalls serve the likes of Hamstead etc.
The problem is that this approach just kicks the can further down the road.Yes, and Network Rail said it would be uneconomical. I also think the signal box is a listed building
The problem is that this approach just kicks the can further down the road.
Someone is going to have to do something about Shrewsbury sooner or later, and the way inflation in the railway industry seems to beat regular inflation, the soonert he better.
I've heard that current standards for overlaps will be an issue, given the junctions can't be moved and are currently about as tight as physically possible. Is the stations building itself listed?The problem is that this approach just kicks the can further down the road.
Someone is going to have to do something about Shrewsbury sooner or later, and the way inflation in the railway industry seems to beat regular inflation, the soonert he better.
They could try for derogations, New St being a different case in point.I've heard that current standards for overlaps will be an issue, given the junctions can't be moved and are currently about as tight as physically possible. Is the stations building itself listed?
Nothings impossible, but will require thought and energy to overcome them (time and cash).They could try for derogations, New St being a different case in point.
I've heard that current standards for overlaps will be an issue, given the junctions can't be moved and are currently about as tight as physically possible. Is the stations building itself listed?
They could try for derogations, New St being a different case in point.
SNIP
The diesel services stop at stations like Smethwick GB, Sandwell and Dudley and Dudley Port.
It is strange that Chase Line is seen as a simple win while others suggest that Shrewsbury Line services with over 4x usage should be curtailed at Wolverhampton because of 12 miles of diesels running under wires.