I think the intention is for additional 385s to run the route. 350/2s may be available sooner, if necessary.When this is complete it will run EMU’s. But where are they coming from? And where are the current DMU’s going?
There aren’t any additional 385’s. That didn’t happen when the Abellio franchise wasn’t extended.I think the intention is for additional 385s to run the route. 350/2s may be available sooner, if necessary.
The 156s will probably be cascaded to Northern if Scotrail has no other use for them.
You can always put a new order in, it's not like Hitachi forgot how to make them.There aren’t any additional 385’s. That didn’t happen when the Abellio franchise wasn’t extended.
I can't image they'd say "Oh, you didn't order any new trains when the franchise wasn't renewed and we don't want your money now"You can always put a new order in, it's not like Hitachi forgot how to make them.
I wonder if the 365s will be scrapped by the time the line is wired.I mean the decarbonisation plan could possibly mean- and there is a small chance that the good old 365’s might be used- after all, they were used as a stopgap on the Stirling line
Quite a few in store at Crewe looking for a home.I wonder if the 365s will be scrapped by the time the line is wired.
No doubt that has been considered. However is it worth all the work when the 320s will be due to get replaced in the next few years.Another quick way to boost the fleet would be to take 321s from Greater Anglia (e.g the Renatus air con upgraded ones) and turn them into more 320s by removing one carriage and cascading existing stock from else where in ScotRail. Or just use them as 4 cars anyway and take advantage of the fact that they are very similar to the 320s for maintenance. It may also be the case that less demand post covid may release stock used for peak extras. (Apologies to the moderators for this digression off the thread)
Possibly a follow on might have been allowed but a new order of the same trains wouldn't have met 'new' safety standards (whatever these may or may not be) so may have not been allowed so it may not be a metter of Hitachi forgetting to make them.You can always put a new order in, it's not like Hitachi forgot how to make them.
Rules on competitive procurement don't allow you just to go to your favourite supplier. However, there would probably have been an option in the original order to buy more of the same at an agreed price (subject to inflation and other conditions). It's usually in the interests of both parties to do that, especially if the franchise might be required to expand the fleet later on. The supplier can produce more without the costs of a new design or the risk of bidding, and the customer who just wants to add to a successful fleet avoids an expensive competitive procurement that might end up with someone else winning. And if it wasn't successful they walk away from the option, which gives the supplier an incentive to make sure they work well. I suspect the franchise company that has the right to exercise the option still exists under the control of Transport Scotland.I can't image they'd say "Oh, you didn't order any new trains when the franchise wasn't renewed and we don't want your money now"
With that being said, it wouldn't surprise me if Transport Scotland were to order another fleet from a different manufacturer. Talgo trains made in Scotland anyone?
option was for an additional 10 sets. With East Kilbride, Barrhead, Tweedbank and Levenmouth next for wires, would 10 sets have been enough? I think not.Rules on competitive procurement don't allow you just to go to your favourite supplier. However, there would probably have been an option in the original order to buy more of the same at an agreed price (subject to inflation and other conditions). It's usually in the interests of both parties to do that, especially if the franchise might be required to expand the fleet later on. The supplier can produce more without the costs of a new design or the risk of bidding, and the customer who just wants to add to a successful fleet avoids an expensive competitive procurement that might end up with someone else winning. And if it wasn't successful they walk away from the option, which gives the supplier an incentive to make sure they work well. I suspect the franchise company that has the right to exercise the option still exists under the control of Transport Scotland.
What safety standards have changed since the 385s were introduced?Possibly a follow on might have been allowed but a new order of the same trains wouldn't have met 'new' safety standards (whatever these may or may not be) so may have not been allowed so it may not be a metter of Hitachi forgetting to make them.
It seems unlikely that Tweedbank will be be electrified in the same sort of timescale as the first two routes. 10 sets will be plenty for EK and Barrhead.option was for an additional 10 sets. With East Kilbride, Barrhead, Tweedbank and Levenmouth next for wires, would 10 sets have been enough? I think not.
If the future level of ridership means that some formations on the North Clyde services can be cut to 3-car operation and there are spare units.As why would you move Class 334s to EK and Barrhead.
Has any mention been made as to the rolling stock for services post-electrification?
Thank you, so a four-car 385 equivalent is the likely future stock?Still working on that. Prevailing opinion at SR is 6 car 320/318 combos until such a time as a new order for more units is made.
The new order is likely to be 385s or equivalent, to cover a combination of Barrhead, East Kilbride, replacement of the last of the legacy mk3 stock, and to provide battery units for the Fife electrification. Hitachi has made a deal of offering battery 385s, however other units have been looked at.
*Note these will definitely be either new build or cascaded Electrostar stock from down south. The Electrostars appear to be homeless, but we shall see. The combination of number of new units needed for new services and replacement, as well as battery units needed for Fife means that it's likely to be a single order for the lot, and there aren't anywhere near enough new 23m units going spare to fill the gap.
Everything else that is currently homeless is headed for scrap or unsuitable, however that part belongs in speculative ideas. No announcement has been made yet, but expect a new order announcement at some point early next year if one is in the pipeline.
Had heard that the 379 Elerctrostsrs had found a home to replace 365s out of Kings Cross. Although there are many other Elrctrostsrs that could need a home.Still working on that. Prevailing opinion at SR is 6 car 320/318 combos until such a time as a new order for more units is made.
The new order is likely to be 385s or equivalent, to cover a combination of Barrhead, East Kilbride, replacement of the last of the legacy mk3 stock, and to provide battery units for the Fife electrification. Hitachi has made a deal of offering battery 385s, however other units have been looked at.
*Note these will definitely be either new build or cascaded Electrostar stock from down south. The Electrostars appear to be homeless, but we shall see. The combination of number of new units needed for new services and replacement, as well as battery units needed for Fife means that it's likely to be a single order for the lot, and there aren't anywhere near enough new 23m units going spare to fill the gap.
Everything else that is currently homeless is headed for scrap or unsuitable, however that part belongs in speculative ideas. No announcement has been made yet, but expect a new order announcement at some point early next year if one is in the pipeline.
It had been suggested up thread that 321s would be used but they seem to be heading to the scrapyard at some pace.Had heard that the 379 Elerctrostsrs had found a home to replace 365s out of Kings Cross. Although there are many other Elrctrostsrs that could need a home.
From a point of view of training for staff and maintenance inventory the ideal stock would be a Hitachi 385 though.
There are after all just a bit old. Even our own 320s and 318s will be heading off shortly.It had been suggested up thread that 321s would be used but they seem to be heading to the scrapyard at some pace.
The 30 Renatus sets deserve another life somewhere after the money was spent on them quite recently.It had been suggested up thread that 321s would be used but they seem to be heading to the scrapyard at some pace.
I don't think there is logic in extending platform lengths to 8 car then using trains which are shorter than the current fleet. 20 v 23mThe 30 Renatus sets deserve another life somewhere after the money was spent on them quite recently.
The project team at ScotRail have pretty much dismissed any idea of using the Renatus 321s or any other refurbished stock.The 30 Renatus sets deserve another life somewhere after the money was spent on them quite recently.
A new order to cover a variety of purposes in terms of older stock replacement, electrification extension etc is far more sensible in the long runThe project team at ScotRail have pretty much dismissed any idea of using the Renatus 321s or any other refurbished stock.
A new order to cover a variety of purposes in terms of older stock replacement, electrification extension etc is far more sensible in the long run