Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

[JonathanH]

They don't anymore, unfortunately.

There have been previous postings that WCML crews don't sign 185s but are there TPE crew members that only sign 802s and not 185s?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They don't anymore, unfortunately.

Interesting, that's a recent change, then, as I recall reading it here very recently!

 

[Envy123]

That was my video.

Nice to see you here too.

When I saw the loose parts, I really thought that things could get worse. And so they did.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Just because you have enough trains, in theory, doesn't mean that you can simply substitute one train for another. You need crew that sign it, the ability to match the performance of the substituted unit, and if it goes on for more than a few hours, stabling facilities in the right place where you can keep them.

Exactly the reason why GWR have had to run Bristol-Swindon with Turbos, and Didcot-Paddington shuttles with 387s.

No guards sign both Turbos and the Didcot-Swindon section - or not enough to sustain a service - otherwise the 1Axx/1Cxx/1Gxx/1Lxx diagrams could have been subbed with Turbos.
They cannot run DOO either, as the DOO agreement doesn’t go past DID.

However, a Turbo did drop on 1P66 Worcester-Paddington today, which was interesting to see, and of course lost bundles of time versus electric timings between Reading and Paddington.

 

[Class 170101]

LNER are the only operator Grantham-Newark-Doncaster too. A slow detour via Lincoln is possible but very low capacity.

But a slower journey from Grantham via Nottingham or Sheffield would be possible.

I'd not be too worried about Newcastle- Edinburgh.

XC are unaffected.

forgot about them but I think they are running evry two hours north of Newcastle right now.

 

[ashkeba]

But a slower journey from Grantham via Nottingham or Sheffield would be possible.

The EMR regionals doing Grantham-MML are also small and busy.

 

[JonathanH]

However, a Turbo did drop on 1P66 Worcester-Paddington today, which was interesting to see, and of course lost bundles of time versus electric timings between Reading and Paddington.

Five minutes? That isn't 'bundles of time'.

 

[O L Leigh]

Quite funny the reference to First Great Western on this.

Where's that screengrab come from? Is it from the LNER Twitter account?

 

[jw]

Have we a source for this yet...?

Yes, Hitachi themselves has just tweeted an apology/explanation.

Tweet

 

[Roger B]

Whilst I think many people are doing their absolute best at keeping as many people as they can moving it’s a real shame that we have already got reports of ....

*refunds being refused because the train was reinstated and people were told not to travel

*tickets being rejected on alternative operators services despite it being an official alternative.

*lots of people being charged admin fees.

*passengers being told to use delay repay when they don’t travel (cracking fraud case coming up in September 2022, I look forward to the thread)

* passengers told that they must have a new seat reservation or they can’t travel, then the actual trains that run being a free for all

*passengers thrown off at random stations due to overcrowding

* people made to surrender their advance singles and buy SVRs for a service 2 hours later. Then having their refund on their original train rejected.

It’s a real shame that these sorts of issues (which are nearly all resolved with a fight) do seem to crop up every single time there is disruption anywhere.

little wonder passengers get angry.

and decide "never again" and drive next time.

It seems the arrangements currently in place when a line is blocked / an operator is unable to run its advertised services, all too often results in passengers being provided with insufficient / conflicting information, and in passengers not only being inconvenienced (to put it mildly), but all too often out of pocket as well.

And TOCs using these situations as opportunities to capture additional revenue from admin fees, or from people travelling over routes not normally allowed, smacks of opportunism of the worst sort, profiting from the misfortune of passengers just trying to complete journeys for which they have already paid. This attracts much attention in the media, and the railway, quite rightly (given the above) often does not come out well. Admittedly covid restrictions won’t have helped in this instance, but the underlying issues are clear to see, and the Rail Delivery Group and it's predecessors (ATOC, etc) should have had this sorted out years ago.

It would be in the industry's best interest to address these, and to draw up a consistent set of principles to be applied in such circumstances, ensuring passengers are allowed to complete their journeys in the most convenient / fastest way, using any operator’s trains, without surcharge. And the industry also needs to up its game in terms of ensuring passengers (and potential travellers) are provided with timely information about how they can complete their journeys, and the high-level cause (eg issue with infrastructure / rolling stock / staffing) and likely duration of the incident.

Whilst individual TOCs may miss out on some additional revenue for the duration of the incident, surely this pales into insignificance alongside the lost revenue that is lost as a result of negative publicity.

So come on RDG, digitum extractum!

 

[O L Leigh]

Yes, Hitachi themselves has just tweeted an apology/explanation.

Righto. Thank you.

 

[Chris217]

Hmmmm a quick Google and you'll find plenty of evidence of 50's failing or HST'S being dragged by locos!

Agree with that statement
Except today's privatised railways don't do that anymore.
With BR they were obliged to get trains running and replace defect locomotives or units en-route.
Today they will just cancel a defective train and put a bus on or worse,nothing at all.
The 800s like the 195s the other week.
Rush them all into service.
Scrap all the old trains as quick as they can,then something like this happens!
Back up plan.....nothing!

 

[py_megapixel]

Quite funny the reference to First Great Western on this.

I believe the company is still formally known as "First Greater Western Ltd" - at least they're named as such on the agreement pertinent to their most recent direct award - so that's probably what they mean.

 

[Annetts key]

These trains weren't meant for the old victorian infrastructure.

The line of route, the embankments, cuttings, tunnels, some of the bridges etc may date from the Victorian times, but the signalling, rails, sleepers, ballast, OHL are all 20th or 21st century or newer!

The GWR station announcements are saying “We are experiencing significant disruption to our train services due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.”

Below, a single 802 seen at Temple Meads, platform 13 earlier this afternoon. Plus the poster in the ticket office.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Five minutes? That isn't 'bundles of time'.

It is considering that’s 2 and half paths on a very busy section of railway!
Used to be a huge issue in the peaks with the Bedwyns, until the siding there was extended for the IETs.

 

[Ianno87]

It is considering that’s 2 and half paths on a very busy section of railway!

Somewhat academic when most of the service isn't running.

Agree with that statement
Except today's privatised railways don't do that anymore.
With BR they were obliged to get trains running and replace defect locomotives or units en-route.
Today they will just cancel a defective train and put a bus on or worse,nothing at all.
The 800s like the 195s the other week.
Rush them all into service.
Scrap all the old trains as quick as they can,then something like this happens!
Back up plan.....nothing!

BR didn't run as many trains as the privatised railways does.

 

[py_megapixel]

Somewhat academic when most of the service isn't running.

Indeed. The choice is between one service which takes the time required for two paths, or no service at all.

Ordinarily, you would want two services which take one path each, but unfortunately that is not an option at the moment due to the inferior performance of the Turbos compared to the IETs!

 

[800001]

I was booked on the 06.30 KGX-LDS this morning. Advised at Kings Cross they didn’t expect trains to run for the rest of the day so hopped over to St Pancras for the 06.33 STP-York up to Sheffield.

Would say a lot of the people on that train had come over from Kings Cross & then changed at Sheffield onto cross country.

Slightly frustrating to then check RTT and see the 07.03 KGX-LDS ran, albeit a little late!! I mean, I’m sure at that time info was patchy & better to get people moving than waiting around at Kings Cross. Ive only end up being an hour later so no big deal (and delay repay!)

But, is it really the case in these situations that things change so quickly that at 6.20 they wouldn’t have known that they’d be running a train 40 mins later?

I can assure you, that yes things did change that quick!

 

[The Planner]

Some splendid meme's knocking about at the moment.

 

[randyrippley]

The line of route, the embankments, cuttings, tunnels, some of the bridges etc may date from the Victorian times, but the signalling, rails, sleepers, ballast, OHL are all 20th or 21st century or newer!..............

22nd century infrastructure?

 

[py_megapixel]

22nd century infrastructure

Sounds like something Boris Johnson would say...

 

[800001]

Is there not Hitachi trained engineers based at Polmadie and Heaton?

Heaton there is yes, Polmadie unsire, but the Polmadie unit was the first authorised into traffic today.

 

[A0wen]

To the people talking about the old British-built stock being better engineered, I should remind you that the specification for these was almost certainly determined by an excellent example of what seems to be typical British engineering these days - that is, engineering contracts to deliver the absolute possible lowest cost-to-good-exposure ratio (!)

(Also, the units were assembled in the UK, so there's that )

Your evidence that the 800 series is "engineering contracts to deliver the absolute possible lowest cost-to-good-exposure ratio" is what exactly?

BR era stock had similar problems - all Class 321s being withdrawn due to cracks in the bogies IIRC for example.

 

[AdamWW]

The line of route, the embankments, cuttings, tunnels, some of the bridges etc may date from the Victorian times, but the signalling, rails, sleepers, ballast, OHL are all 20th or 21st century or newer!

The GWR station announcements are saying “We are experiencing significant disruption to our train services due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.”

Below, a single 802 seen at Temple Meads, platform 13 earlier this afternoon. Plus the poster in the ticket office.

Interesting.

Was that poster aimed at (would-be) passengers?

Should I know what a "code black" is?

 

[Phlip]

I was responding to the line "They clearly communicated 'We have problems. Don' t travel.'"

Are you saying that I'm being unreasonable in thinking that I should be given any more information than that?

If you are, I strongly disagree.

And you are quite right to. You're a paying customer, not an inconvenience merely getting in the way of running trains.

 

[ainsworth74]

It’s a shame the forum doesn’t allow video uploads like it does for photos - I can and always agree with the comments regarding the terrible ride quality and the various bangs you get from crossing points etc at speed, as I was reminded of last week crossing Dolphin Junction at full line speed.

It would be nice but it would really start to add up veeerry quickly in terms of the amount of storage required. We're happier to offload that burden onto YouTube instead

 

[Annetts key]

Interesting.

Was that poster aimed at (would-be) passengers?

Should I know what a "code black" is?

It was definitely aimed at passengers, it’s in the entrance to the station.

 

[HST274]

LNER have 13 class 801s out running now, plus 2 800s.

Any idea how many gwr iets are out

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

It was definitely aimed at passengers, it’s in the entrance to the station.

Code Black is part of CSL2 messaging - sometimes it makes its way out into the passenger-facing side of things, but most of the time it’s used internally.

 

[RPI]

Any idea how many gwr iets are out

It was 9 earlier