Great British Railways: Livery, branding and appearance?

[221101 Voyager]

Ooh, these are quite appealing - the West Coast one in particular. The blue and orange offset each other very nicely.

Thank you!

I think I better get them design ideas submitted to Great British Railways then!

 

[Gareth]

Again, it's nothing massively outside the norm of most other countries. You only notice it because you've been used to seeing it seldomly in this country until recently.

Shapps' profile picture is a bit cheesy and wouldn't be my style but it's not outwidth the realm of politicians the world over. Not a reason to hate the flag, regardless of your level of fondness for Mr Shapps.

 

[thenorthern]

I am not sure a single appearance is a good idea, at stations where there is a choice of operators it normally means passengers can chose which operator they see as nicest. For example at Stoke-on-Trent it was common for people to choose Avanti over CrossCountry to get to Manchester as many people don't like voyagers. At the same time many chose Virgin over London Midland to get to London as it was much faster.

 

[Gareth]

Thanks - I'll use this to help illustrate why I don't want the union flag to represent my country. But you're more than welcome to keep it!

Not at all. The pleasure's all mine. The Union Jack will represent our country until the day you die and many years beyond.

 

[camflyer]

I am not sure a single appearance is a good idea, at stations where there is a choice of operators it normally means passengers can chose which operator they see as nicest. For example at Stoke-on-Trent it was common for people to choose Avanti over CrossCountry to get to Manchester as many people don't like voyagers. At the same time many chose Virgin over London Midland to get to London as it was much faster.

In busy stations with multiple operators it also helps catching the correct train. If all look the same then there is a danger that I'll get on the wrong one. I'm not going to accidentally get on a Cross Country train rather than a Greater Anglia one.

 

[Grumpy Git]

If GB Railways wants to use red, white and blue, that's absolutely fine. Heck, bring back NSE! But let's not pretend this whole thing hasn't been named as part of a post-Brexit attempt to show how we've taken back control.

100% this.

 

[Gareth]

Could've called it French Railways instead, I suppose.

 

[zwk500]

Not at all. The pleasure's all mine. The Union Jack will represent our country until the day you die and many years beyond.

Technically the Union Jack only represents our country on one of Her Majesty's Ships, when on land it's the Union Flag, but that's beside the point.

I personally think the Hitachi 800 series would look quite smart with some variant of this on the cabs, and a red/white/blue stripe NSE-style along the body:

Somebody better with visual packages than me will be required to show it properly.

 

[Gareth]

And technically Big Ben is the bell. Who cares?

But yes, I quite like the BA livery. I doubt they'd be happy having it copied too closely by the railway though.

 

[MotCO]

Also, using silver as a base colour will mean they hide the dirt well!

And any cracks

 

[jon0844]

I personally think the Hitachi 800 series would look quite smart with some variant of this on the cabs, and a red/white/blue stripe NSE-style along the body:
View attachment 96675

Not too high though, as it will play havoc with the OHLE!

 

[43096]

In busy stations with multiple operators it also helps catching the correct train. If all look the same then there is a danger that I'll get on the wrong one. I'm not going to accidentally get on a Cross Country train rather than a Greater Anglia one.

What happens if CrossCountry hire in a train from Greater Anglia, would you miss the train then?

 

[physics34]

I just don't get this view at all. We must be the only country in the world ashamed of our flag. Literally every country displays it proudly, and many even stick it on their trains e.g. US, Canada, Switzerland...

It's odd to me. Most people on here I suspect liked Network SouthEast branding, which is in the Union Flag colours. Yet as soon as someone suggests that's what it is, they hate it.

Yes, ridiculous. Most probably the far left

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, ridiculous. Most probably the far left

Or Scottish nationalists. But even if Scotland does secede, which there is a decent chance it will, there are still going to be international trains from England, most probably operated by English TOCs, just like there are international trains all over Europe and nobody overly cares that they might be using a DB, SNCF or FS train for their domestic Swiss journey, for example (other than that the FS one is highly likely to be late ).

 

[387star]

Sorry but where does it say liveries will change, surely all will stay the same

Will swr continue repaints?

 

[Gareth]

It's not just the "far left" and a few anglophobes in Scotland though, is it. Unless, we're calling much of the English middle class "far left" now.

 

[Mat17]

It's unhealthy, isn't it? A sneering snobbery and self-loathing of their own country and the idea that literally everywhere else is more wholesome & civilized, except perhaps the US, which is essentially seen as Britian on steroids.

And for 99% of them, it's not an aversion to flags in general. They love seeing Scottish saltires on their Aberdeen Angus packaging. They love seeing Jamaican flags at their local Carribbean restaurant. They'll happily snap photos of flag standards abroad as part their holiday experience. And the EU flag, essentially their replacement national flag, brings tears to their eyes.

It's not even that, so far as I'm aware, we've seen any proposed livery, whether said livery will feature the Union Jack or that there will even be a uniform livery at all. It's pure speculation at the moment. But hey, it's "pathetic", regardless.

I couldn't agree more!

I might draw the line at having an oath to the flag as they do in the states, but I really wish people in this country had more pride in it - be that the individual countries themselves or the greater group.

So much time is spent dissecting the negatives of Britain and Britain's colonial past (and like all former empires there's plenty to go at), but there's equally as much to be proud of too. History isn't like a fairy tale, good versus bad - sterotypical black and white thinking. That's far too simplistic. History is more complex, there are many shades of good and bad, nothing is perfect.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You should see my Intercity livery proposals Bletchleyite!

I think you'll like them!

So my concept is to use the same livery design, but in different colours for different regions of intercity services.

I know they won't be on 91s, but it's just an example train I had!

Just Imagine these are 800s!

Also, using silver as a base colour will mean they hide the dirt well!


So what I'm saying here is basically, whenever any 80x or other train needs repainting roll out an identity like these.

Let me know what you think!

Anglia
View attachment 96662

East Midlands
View attachment 96664

GWR
View attachment 96663


West Coast
View attachment 96665

North Eastern
View attachment 96666

I very much like "family" liveries, where you have a familiar shape but different colours, so yes, that very much appeals. Other examples are the Regional Railwaus PTE liveries, the SWT ones and the very similar 1990s DB one which had a white body and burgundy, blue, green or orange window bands for IC, IR, RB/RE and S respectively.

 

[Purple Orange]

It's unhealthy, isn't it? A sneering snobbery and self-loathing of their own country and the idea that literally everywhere else is more wholesome & civilized, except perhaps the US, which is essentially seen as Britian on steroids.

And for 99% of them, it's not an aversion to flags in general. They love seeing Scottish saltires on their Aberdeen Angus packaging. They love seeing Jamaican flags at their local Carribbean restaurant. They'll happily snap photos of flag standards abroad as part their holiday experience. And the EU flag, essentially their replacement national flag, brings tears to their eyes.

It's not even that, so far as I'm aware, we've seen any proposed livery, whether said livery will feature the Union Jack or that there will even be a uniform livery at all. It's pure speculation at the moment. But hey, it's "pathetic", regardless.

I’m not sure who you have in mind here. Nobody sheds a tear for a flag as far as I can see, other than the type who cheers at a royal event.

 

[Gareth]

You mean a racist, basically. Maybe they do. I wouldn't know.

I was being figurative anyway.

 

[mvm03]

I personally do not think there should be a standard livery across the network on the grounds that regional identity would be lost. I would rather that operations were branded similar to how they are now, but with a few changes compared with the existing TOC areas as follows:

• Avanti merged with LNWR to form a GNWR brand.
• Cross Country merged with EMT to form a brand called Midland Connect.
• WMT (operationally separate from LNWR by this point) brand to be used additionally on XC services to Nottingham and Leicester (stopper only).
• Great Northern split, with the Moorgate services becoming part of the London Overground brand and the Kings Lynn route becoming part of the LNER brand.
• Chiltern Railways renamed as Chiltern & Oxbridge, with brand used on all planned EWR services in addition to those from London Marylebone.
• Northern and TPE split into separate Northwest and Northeast brands.
• All HS2 and NPR services to be branded as Intercity Express.
• All other brands (SE, Southern, Thameslink, SWR, GWR, TfW, Merseyrail, Overground, Crossrail, GA, c2c, Scotrail) remain as they are.

I would personally like what france does with its TER services a single brand but with regional identifiers/liveries

 

[FileTrekker]

Honestly, I look back at the original British Rail redesign manual and even now it strikes me how clean, easy to understand, and even modern it looks. It was flat design before it was trendy.

It's a design language and brand scheme that has survived well beyond BR for a reason. It works, really well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Honestly, I look back at the original British Rail redesign manual and even now it strikes me how clean, easy to understand, and even modern it looks. It was flat design before it was trendy.

It's a design language and brand scheme that has survived well beyond BR for a reason. It works, really well.

I think it looks dated. The Regional Railways one is good and more modern, though.

 

[FileTrekker]

I think it looks dated. The Regional Railways one is good and more modern, though.

Eh? Regional Railways and even Intercity's final branding (as good as it is) screams 1980s. The double arrow / Rail Alphabet does have a timeless quality and actually (as trends have come full circle) is bang on trend.

I mean it uses serif fonts, for crying out loud.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Eh? Regional Railways and even Intercity's final branding (as good as it is) screams 1980s.

That's a fair point, and its from way before my time, but when I see InterCity swallow livery stock like LSLs 90 + MK3s I think it looks really classy and it stands out compared to the privatised brands we have these days.

I think if the Intercity 'Swallow' and other BR sector liveries were bought back and modernised slightly it'd be a good look for our railways, but as I've said earlier only replace existing signage and liveries on stock when they require doing so you don't have the issue of wasting money.

The double arrow / Rail Alphabet does have a timeless quality and actually (as trends have come full circle) is bang on trend.

I mean it uses serif fonts, for crying out loud.

It certainly does.

 

[infobleep]

One of my family members said that it should be called Great Britain Railways and not Great British Railways as the latter suggests the British are Great. By calling it Great Britain, it reflects the area it covers.

I felt that is precisely why they wanted to use it. Brexit and all that. Not that I want to start a Brexit debate. Just that I'm sure that influenced the name choice.

I love the green colour of the Great Western Railway and would like to see more of that.

Obviously, if it's broken into regions then different regions will have different colours.

 

[FileTrekker]

Intercity Swallow is very classy, but it's also easily dated. The first step is to realise that dated does not = bad, necessarily, just not appropriate for something new.

So the obvious tells that Swallow / RR is very late 1980s are typical design cues, lots of sharp angles, dark grey's and creams, serif fonts, stripes and patterns (such as the Swallow element, or the 3 stripes at the end of the blue border / logo for RR).

But when you look at modern design, it's typically flat, one or two colours, sans-serif fonts, fairly simplified, bold use of colour meeting minimal design, it's the original 1960's BR design language to a T.

Obviously everything is objective, but any designer would look at the 1960's BR design spec and see how with very little work it could have been done yesterday.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Lion and wheel logo, green suburban, blue and white Intercity, Crimson and Cream Regional, bring back comfortable seats, make tickets prices actually competitive against car or air travel, get rid of ticket prices complicated BS, have visibile staff on ALL trains to make lone female customers feel safe, stop charging expensive fares to subsidise European state railways and bring in a culture whereby railway staff have the respect that they used to have.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Eh? Regional Railways and even Intercity's final branding (as good as it is) screams 1980s.

That's quite odd, as they are both 1990s brands.

I think Rail Alphabet looks very dated indeed (unlike LU's New Johnston) and needs to be replaced.

 

[Grumpy Git]

I think Rail Alphabet looks very dated indeed (unlike LU's New Johnston) and needs to be replaced.

Rubbish, its very clear / easy to read, why change it for the sake of "progress"?

It's like stations which have white on black name boards, complete style over substance and horrible (i.e. impossible) to read in poor light.

While I'm at it, what about having platform numbers listed in timetables, (like BR managed for 40 odd years)? When I'm abroad, the guard can tell me where to change AND the platform number.