5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail

[Killingworth]

One would presume for the same reason that Transport Scotland want them: they have services that regularly struggle to carry the number of bikes or amount of luggage that they are tasked with carrying.

Having waited so long to get these units into service why would Scotrail give one up before they've had a summer to gain experience themselves?

 

[najaB]

Having waited so long to get these units into service why would Scotrail give one up before they've had a summer to gain experience themselves?

I didn't think they'll be using all of them this summer, will they?

 

[waverley47]

I didn't think they'll be using all of them this summer, will they?

I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

The whl and far north lines are incredibly busy during super normally, and this year is expect them to be even more so.

The current units aren't enough for the busy summer months, so I'd expect at least four of them to be in service each day over summer when the five arrive.

 

[najaB]

I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

I thought it was mentioned up-thread that they won't need them all until after some timetable improvements that won't be ready for this year.

 

[berneyarms]

I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

The whl and far north lines are incredibly busy during super normally, and this year is expect them to be even more so.

The current units aren't enough for the busy summer months, so I'd expect at least four of them to be in service each day over summer when the five arrive.

Until the Oban and Mallaig services on the WHL are separated, which will require a recast timetable (not happening this year), the Class 153 sets will only be on the 10:34 and 16:36 ex-Queen St and the 14:41 and 20:37 ex-Oban.

 

[waverley47]

I thought it was mentioned up-thread that they won't need them all until after some timetable improvements that won't be ready for this year.

It is true that the full timetable improvements won't be available until next year, however that doesn't preclude the use of four units this year if they're available.

the max unit length is six cars for both Oban and Fort William, and currently most Oban runs are four cars. You'd need to uncouple and leave a 153 at Oban for a while, but it's definitley possible.

in a similar vein, it's also possible to use a 153 on the Mallaig to fort bill sections, and leave it at fort hill for the next return run.

This is all very unlikely, however it is definitley technically possible to cheese it, provided several units stay away from cockerhill overnight at either Oban or fort William.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2021 ==

Until the Oban and Mallaig services on the WHL are separated, which will require a recast timetable (not happening this year), the Class 153 sets will only be on the 10:34 and 16:36 ex-Queen St and the 14:41 and 20:37 ex-Oban.

This is the current assumption yes, needing 3/5 units to be ready (2 in service each day) but if you really wanted to it would be possible to utilise the other two.

A bigger question is the whereabouts of the other three 153s, which won't be ready for a while if the current timescale continues.

 

[craigybagel]

It is true that the full timetable improvements won't be available until next year, however that doesn't preclude the use of four units this year if they're available.

the max unit length is six cars for both Oban and Fort William, and currently most Oban runs are four cars. You'd need to uncouple and leave a 153 at Oban for a while, but it's definitley possible.

in a similar vein, it's also possible to use a 153 on the Mallaig to fort bill sections, and leave it at fort hill for the next return run.

This is all very unlikely, however it is definitley technically possible to cheese it, provided several units stay away from cockerhill overnight at either Oban or fort William.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2021 ==



This is the current assumption yes, needing 3/5 units to be ready (2 in service each day) but if you really wanted to it would be possible to utilise the other two.

A bigger question is the whereabouts of the other three 153s, which won't be ready for a while if the current timescale continues.

That's also assuming you have the ability to get Fort William, Mallaig and/or Oban crews trained on 153s in time. With the current plan, I believe only Queen Street drivers need to sign them - which whilst I'm sure will be challenging, is less challenging than extending to other depots. Training is a very hard thing to do at the moment

 

[IanXC]

That's also assuming you have the ability to get Fort William, Mallaig and/or Oban crews trained on 153s in time. With the current plan, I believe only Queen Street drivers need to sign them - which whilst I'm sure will be challenging, is less challenging than extending to other depots. Training is a very hard thing to do at the moment

156 to 153 is typically a half day course where its happened at other TOCs. Not exactly a particularly challenging schedule. I know of one TOC that sorted this very rapidly by offering 1 rest day worked to do a half day course. Funnily enough they finished ahead of plan.

 

[scotraildriver]

It is true that the full timetable improvements won't be available until next year, however that doesn't preclude the use of four units this year if they're available.

the max unit length is six cars for both Oban and Fort William, and currently most Oban runs are four cars. You'd need to uncouple and leave a 153 at Oban for a while, but it's definitley possible.

in a similar vein, it's also possible to use a 153 on the Mallaig to fort bill sections, and leave it at fort hill for the next return run.

This is all very unlikely, however it is definitley technically possible to cheese it, provided several units stay away from cockerhill overnight at either Oban or fort William.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2021 ==



This is the current assumption yes, needing 3/5 units to be ready (2 in service each day) but if you really wanted to it would be possible to utilise the other two.

A bigger question is the whereabouts of the other three 153s, which won't be ready for a while if the current timescale continues.

No Oban trains run as 4 cars, they are all 2. Oban drivers will be trained on 153s. It's already started. The initial schedule will be a 153/156 combo on the 10.33 and 16.36 Glasgow to Oban and return. That's it until the timetable recast. End of.

 

[47827]

No Oban trains run as 4 cars, they are all 2. Oban drivers will be trained on 153s. It's already started. The initial schedule will be a 153/156 combo on the 10.33 and 16.36 Glasgow to Oban and return. That's it until the timetable recast. End of.

And from what I recall was discussed many moons ago about crew diagrams I think the 1033 off Queen Street is Oban crews off the early 0521 service from Oban. The 1441 ex Oban is another Oban crew, with them going down for the 1823 from Queen Street to Oban. The 1636 ex Queen Street would be the Glasgow crew for the 2037 ex Oban so be their initial only passenger turn on the 153s as well as the drivers being involved in taking them off and back to the depot off the 2 summer diagrams.

 

[InOban]

Now that the full timetable is operating, I'm fairly sure that the crews on the two early trains swap at Ardlui. Although Oban crews do sign to Glasgow I don't know on which services they go the distance.

 

[waverley47]

No Oban trains run as 4 cars, they are all 2. Oban drivers will be trained on 153s. It's already started. The initial schedule will be a 153/156 combo on the 10.33 and 16.36 Glasgow to Oban and return. That's it until the timetable recast. End of.

Of course, hence the hypothetical part of my post. This is the final timetable alteration prior to the full recast, however internally there was about a Fortnite of talk about parking one up at fort bill for a few weeks at a time.

 

[scotraildriver]

Now that the full timetable is operating, I'm fairly sure that the crews on the two early trains swap at Ardlui. Although Oban crews do sign to Glasgow I don't know on which services they go the distance.

The only job Oban crew work to Glasgow is the 12.11 and 18.24 return. The 10.33 to

And from what I recall was discussed many moons ago about crew diagrams I think the 1033 off Queen Street is Oban crews off the early 0521 service from Oban. The 1441 ex Oban is another Oban crew, with them going down for the 1823 from Queen Street to Oban. The 1636 ex Queen Street would be the Glasgow crew for the 2037 ex Oban so be their initial only passenger turn on the 153s as well as the drivers being involved in taking them off and back to the depot off the 2 summer diagrams.

All wrong. The 10.33 and 14.41 ex Oban are a Qn St crew. The 05.21 ex Oban crew work to Ardlui and return to Oban.

 

[47827]

The only job Oban crew work to Glasgow is the 12.11 and 18.24 return. The 10.33 to

All wrong. The 10.33 and 14.41 ex Oban are a Qn St crew. The 05.21 ex Oban crew work to Ardlui and return to Oban.

Apologies. I was working off wrong info from a good while ago there then. Sounds like Glasgow can cover the first 153 diagrams then until Oban are trained and their use is increased?

 

[scotraildriver]

Apologies. I was working off wrong info from a good while ago there then. Sounds like Glasgow can cover the first 153 diagrams then until Oban are trained and their use is increased?

Yes. The only jobs initially are the 10.36 Qn St Oban and 14.41 return and 16.33 and 2036 return. However Oban crews are being trained on them.

 

[gordonjahn]

I’m sure the training and competence plan is all coming along, and I’m not trying to question any of that..

Purely out of interest though, if a situation occurred, can a 156/153 combo be taken forward by a crew only trained in 156 if the 156 (and hence cab the driver can take) is in front? Or does the lack of driver competence mean it can’t be in the consist (even at the back). I’m guessing it’s a no as the guard wouldn’t be trained up in securing the 153?

 

[scotraildriver]

I’m sure the training and competence plan is all coming along, and I’m not trying to question any of that..

Purely out of interest though, if a situation occurred, can a 156/153 combo be taken forward by a crew only trained in 156 if the 156 (and hence cab the driver can take) is in front? Or does the lack of driver competence mean it can’t be in the consist (even at the back). I’m guessing it’s a no as the guard wouldn’t be trained up in securing the 153?

No. Because it it breaks down the driver won't have a clue what to do with it. Driving it is very similar to a 156, it's the fault finding processes that are significantly different and form most of the course.

 

[craigybagel]

No. Because it it breaks down the driver won't have a clue what to do with it. Driving it is very similar to a 156, it's the fault finding processes that are significantly different and form most of the course.

Like how to use the watering can every 153 is provided with?

But yes, 153s do have some very strange features, mostly as redundancies to permit them to operate solo. Apart from the delay in brake release (which is in itself worse in some units than others) they drive pretty much the same as any other sprinter.

 

[InOban]

Realtime Trains - 3T90 0902 Eastfield H.S. to Oban

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Although all public services are cancelled because of the strike, this STP suggests that there's a trip which might be a first visit to Oban?

And I've just noticed that it's down to spend ca ,5 minutes at each station, which confirms that it's some sort of test run.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jun 2021 ==

RTT confirms that it's a 153/156 combo on a test run to Oban.

 

[Scotrail88]

Apologies if already mentioned but can the Oban line accommodate 5 car (2x 156 & 1x 153)

 

[InOban]

It can accommodate a full length charter train headed by 2 class 37s, as it did yesterday! (9 mk2, 1 pullman, 1 generator car)

 

[Leviathan]

153380 wit 156458 working 3T90 0902 Eastfield - Oban and 3T91 1435 return today

 

[scotraildriver]

It can accommodate a full length charter train headed by 2 class 37s, as it did yesterday! (9 mk2, 1 pullman, 1 generator car)

It would require single door operation (pain) as various stations on the Oban line only accommodate 4 cars and Scotrail units don't have selective door opening.

 

[ScotRail158725]

It can accommodate a full length charter train headed by 2 class 37s, as it did yesterday! (9 mk2, 1 pullman, 1 generator car)

stations can take 4 coaches except oban which can take around 9 at most

 

[Wyrleybart]

One would presume for the same reason that Transport Scotland want them: they have services that regularly struggle to carry the number of bikes or amount of luggage that they are tasked with carrying.

So with Summer upon us and TS's first two on trials or training between Glasgow and Anniesland, why would they want to send one of theirs to Welsh Wales ? Unless of course not all five are franchised yet, and the Rosco might choose to temporarily send one to TfW as a concept demonstrator. If TfW want class 153 seats they miht be better off taking more off lease 153s ass 153/9s


Although TfW is a "national" transport concern pretty much like TS, I am not convinced the Welsh services could afford 24 seat motor bicycle vans to take precedence over seats. But that is just my view.

 

[47827]

It can accommodate a full length charter train headed by 2 class 37s, as it did yesterday! (9 mk2, 1 pullman, 1 generator car)

Yes. Taken several sets there in the past with the shortest 7 carriages and a few of them up to 12 mk2/Mk1s. They certainly didn't all fit on the platform itself and you'd struggle to water the full set without a load of extension pipes. The other stations on the route are mostly no use to long trains and the loops mostly can't have 2 longer trains passing making the Alcan freights tricky. Nothing Scotrail are planning at the moment sounds like it'll be an issue.

 

[InOban]

Arrived in Oban half an hour ago, without gauging incidents!

 

[D6975]

It does commit the (in my opinion) cardinal sin of blocking the windows with livery/advertising though. (I'm assuming however that those windows are the ones that would be obstructed by the bicycle racks anyway)

It looks to me like the vinyls over the windows are the same as the ones used on buses. Note the somewhat washed out colours. From the outside they look solid but are in fact perforated, so from the inside you can see out perfectly well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It looks to me like the vinyls over the windows are the same as the ones used on buses. Note the somewhat washed out colours. From the outside they look solid but are in fact perforated, so from the inside you can see out perfectly well.

From experience no you can't. Ray Stenning hates it and refuses to allow it in his designs, and he's spot on.

It's fine here because bikes don't need to look out of the window, but it should never, ever be used next to seats.

 

[py_megapixel]

It looks to me like the vinyls over the windows are the same as the ones used on buses. Note the somewhat washed out colours. From the outside they look solid but are in fact perforated, so from the inside you can see out perfectly well.

I'm yet to come across any perforated vinyl which looks perfectly transparent from the inside.

One of the Metrolink trams in Manchester had it as an advertising wrap for Vodafone for a while, and it made the interior of that particular vehicle feel very gloomy and looked as if you were seeing through a grid or some kind of honeycomb structure. The impact of this is creating an unpleasant feeling of claustrophobia and a disconnect from the outside world. Not what you want on a very scenic route!

As @Bletchleyite says, there's no issue with it being used next to the bike racks though - I just object to it covering the view from the seats.