Where will the last semaphore signals be on the national network?

[GRALISTAIR]

Well I see that the Sellafield Box is now all women staffed - nice piece here
Sellafield signal box staffed entirely by women - BBC News

Just seen this - fantastic

 

[1955LR]

I went past last Tuesday 29th and noticed it was a Female watching us go by.

 

[zwk500]

I went past last Tuesday 29th and noticed it was a Female watching us go by.

Off-topic, but the true goal is for the gender of any staff member to be considered irrelevant. As well as everything else in the equality act. Of course, we are still many, many years from that happening. So I am glad that NR is making some noise about making opportunities available for all. There's still lots for NR to do, and much of it is behind time, but progress is still worthy of praise.

 

[Western 52]

Coming back to the subject of semaphore gantries upthread, it seems we have identified just three survivors, at Llandudno, Hilton Jct and Shrewsbury (the latter with only one semaphore arm remaining). Are these all that are left? Remember all those lovely gantries from years ago at places such as Southampton, Taunton, Newton Abbot, Scarborough, Exeter and Aberdeen.....

 

[Peter C]

Coming back to the subject of semaphore gantries upthread, it seems we have identified just three survivors, at Llandudno, Hilton Jct and Shrewsbury (the latter with only one semaphore arm remaining). Are these all that are left? Remember all those lovely gantries from years ago at places such as Southampton, Taunton, Newton Abbot, Scarborough, Exeter and Aberdeen.....

Would this one at Worcester Shrub Hill count? The caption says it's a gantry but it's not as large as others and it doesn't span over the track:

Semaphore Signals at Worcester Shrub Hill
A London Midland service entering Worcester Shrub Hill railway station past a gantry of semaphore signals.

© Copyright David Robinson and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

Semaphore Signals at Worcester Shrub... © David Robinson

A London Midland service departing Worcester Shrub Hill railway station past an array of semaphore signals.

www.geograph.org.uk

-Peter

 

[LowLevel]

Would this one at Worcester Shrub Hill count? The caption says it's a gantry but it's not as large as others and it doesn't span over the track:
View attachment 99279

© Copyright David Robinson and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

Semaphore Signals at Worcester Shrub... © David Robinson

A London Midland service departing Worcester Shrub Hill railway station past an array of semaphore signals.

www.geograph.org.uk

-Peter

That's a bracket signal, not a gantry.

 

[Western 52]

Yes I agree, it's a bracket.

 

[zwk500]

Coming back to the subject of semaphore gantries upthread, it seems we have identified just three survivors, at Llandudno, Hilton Jct and Shrewsbury (the latter with only one semaphore arm remaining). Are these all that are left? Remember all those lovely gantries from years ago at places such as Southampton, Taunton, Newton Abbot, Scarborough, Exeter and Aberdeen.....

To be fair, the gantries at all those places went because they were either to complex to maintain, too busy to work for signallers or not suited to modern high-speed traffic. Shrewsbury would probably have gone by now if it wasn't such a pain to resignal the other end of the station.

 

[Peter C]

That's a bracket signal, not a gantry.

Yes I agree, it's a bracket.

Ah cool - thanks both

-Peter

 

[Western 52]

Is there a list anywhere of surviving signalboxes with semaphores?

 

[BS56]

Is there a list anywhere of surviving signalboxes with semaphores?

As I have said on another thread on this site the only book I can think of is the Signalling Atlas and signal box register ( 3rd edition ) 2010 a bit out of date but contains all that you want to know.

 

[Western 52]

As I have said on another thread on this site the only book I can think of is the Signalling Atlas and signal box register ( 3rd edition ) 2010 a bit out of date but contains all that you want to know.

Many thanks! I'll look out for that. Maybe it will get updated at some time, but possibly too few boxes left now to make it worthwhile.

 

[Gloster]

Many thanks! I'll look out for that. Maybe it will get updated at some time, but possibly too few boxes left now to make it worthwhile.

It will probably be updated in the none too distant future, when those who do the work can find the time. It covers not just manual boxes, but all boxes and signalling throughout Britain and Ireland, including preserved and redundant boxes.

 

[Graham H]

Just a reminder: the reason for overlaps is two fold, first, to mitigate driver error (late braking, distraction, loss of concentration) and secondly, possible loss of braking performance (wet/slippery rails, wheel slide, braking system fault).

The standard overlap is a nominal 200 yards / 183 metres in length. But a reduced overlap of 50 yards / 183 metres can be used if the line speed is low, or the preceding signal is approached released (approached controlled) from red (and hence, the approach speed of the train is reduced).

Alternatively, it may be possible to have swinging overlaps, if it is possible for the points ahead of the signal to move, and so provide an alternative length of track that will now form the overlap distance.

In special circumstances, it appears it is possible to have modern colour light signalling with no overlap or very short overlaps. See the signalling at Bristol Temple Meads for an example, especially the mid platform signals.

When the Havant area was resignalled in 2007 (?), a very short overlap was built in for down trains entering the station. Not totally sure of its purpose as its after the two crossovers and from experience it does prevent the level crossing gates being opened as presumably part of the train hasnt operated any release mechanism. Overlap seems very short as shown in the attached photo of a SWT 450 at the signal with a Southern unit still platformed. Theres also a signal for down trains to enter the up platform just at the end of the crossover

 

[swt_passenger]

When the Havant area was resignalled in 2007 (?), a very short overlap was built in for down trains entering the station. Not totally sure of its purpose as its after the two crossovers and from experience it does prevent the level crossing gates being opened as presumably part of the train hasnt operated any release mechanism. Overlap seems very short as shown in the attached photo of a SWT 450 at the signal with a Southern unit still platformed. Theres also a signal for down trains to enter the up platform just at the end of the crossover

Is it intended to allow a train from the Petersfield route to get past the junction rather than be held before it, if an up train is heading along the coast? Although it wouldn’t allow for a 10 or 12 car train.

 

[Graham H]

Is it intended to allow a train from the Petersfield route to get past the junction rather than be held before it, if an up train is heading along the coast? Although it wouldn’t allow for a 10 or 12 car train.

Thats the only reason I can think of but as you say probably only a four car train otherwise various releases at the crossing and junction may not trigger but thats conjecture. I posted the photo in response to the comment about longer overlaps being the norm with colour lights as I was surprised just how little overlap there is here

 

[louis97]

When the Havant area was resignalled in 2007 (?), a very short overlap was built in for down trains entering the station. Not totally sure of its purpose as its after the two crossovers and from experience it does prevent the level crossing gates being opened as presumably part of the train hasnt operated any release mechanism. Overlap seems very short as shown in the attached photo of a SWT 450 at the signal with a Southern unit still platformed. Theres also a signal for down trains to enter the up platform just at the end of the crossover

The full overlap beyond that signal is 200 metres, however there is a reduced/restrictive overlap which is only 45 metres. Generally when using the shorter overlap the signal before will be approach controlled. The presence of these signals essentially allows a shorter platform re-occupation, referred to as closing up signals. Ignoring the shorter overlaps, this works in this circumstance by allowing a following train to proceed past the signal protecting the junctions outside the station before the train in front has fully departed the platform.

 

[Freightmaster]

The full overlap beyond that signal is 200 metres, however there is a reduced/restrictive overlap which is only 45 metres. Generally when using the shorter overlap the signal before will be approach controlled. The presence of these signals essentially allows a shorter platform re-occupation, referred to as closing up signals. Ignoring the shorter overlaps, this works in this circumstance by allowing a following train to proceed past the signal protecting the junctions outside the station before the train in front has fully departed the platform.

I understand that there are similar 'closing up' signals at Ashford on platforms 1/2 and 5/6.



MARK

 

[childwallblues]

I travelled between Smethwuck Galton Bridge and Great Malvern on Tuesday. Asemaphore signal heaven. The Class 800s look quite out of place.

 

[Graham H]

All colour light

There are still semaphores at Deal (Kent) and Littlehampton/Bognor Regis (West Sussex) but I reckon these will go sooner rather than later, and thus won't be the last on the national network

Went through Deal recently, nice to see semaphores again. Does anyone know why this tiny island exists among a sea of colour lights ? Same thought about Beeston Castle between Crewe and Chester. Is there some historic reason why they still remain, perhaps both sites had some local need for a man on the ground (coal at Beeston ?) that made it logical to leave a manned box if the signals were all in good condition.

 

[40129]

Went through Deal recently, nice to see semaphores again. Does anyone know why this tiny island exists among a sea of colour lights ? Same thought about Beeston Castle between Crewe and Chester. Is there some historic reason why they still remain, perhaps both sites had some local need for a man on the ground (coal at Beeston ?) that made it logical to leave a manned box if the signals were all in good condition.

Helsby also appears to be a semaphore island on the North Cheshire route from Chester to Warrington Bank Quay.

Does anyone know how long they are likely to last?

 

[The Planner]

Helsby also appears to be a semaphore island on the North Cheshire route from Chester to Warrington Bank Quay.

Does anyone know how long they are likely to last?

Will probably go when Chester gets re-signaled. That's knocking 40 years old so it depends on how much life extension it gets.

 

[59CosG95]

The last semaphores in Peterborough Eastfield Yard are due to be removed soon, according to this Flickr post. https://flic.kr/p/2mwaB2o

 

[matchmaker]

I wonder how long Anderson's Piano on the Oban line will last (see my avatur!)

 

[najaB]

I wonder how long Anderson's Piano on the Oban line will last (see my avatur!)

Its future replacement (which I desperately hope someone has christened Anderson's Synthesiser) is the optical landslip detection equipment that's been installed at some points on the network already. I posted a thread about one that I saw recently - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/landslip-detection.220007/.

 

[Andyjs247]

There are a few semaphores remaining between Ely and Peterborough, particularly at Manea and at Whittlesea. Also a few at March in the yard.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Helsby also appears to be a semaphore island on the North Cheshire route from Chester to Warrington Bank Quay.
Does anyone know how long they are likely to last?

There's Frodsham Jn too on the same stretch, recently upgraded for the Halton Curve route, and Norton (a more modern box), and Mickle Trafford.
All should really have gone into Chester or Warrington PSBs by now, but will probably wait till Manchester ROC takes the lot over.
Crewe resignalling should sort out Beeston Castle and Crewe Steel Works (it's an awkward long block between them).
The trouble it that the 1960/70s power boxes with obsolete electronics are needing renewal, while the manual boxes can carry on almost indefinitely.

Rail 940 has a picture of the ex-Midland Railway lower-quadrant semaphore at Ketton (Peterborough-Oakham route) which looks like being a heritage survivor - it's pre-1900.
It's said to be the only lower-quadrant signal left which is not of GWR origin.

 

[D6130]

The trouble it that the 1960s power boxes with obsolete electronics are needing renewal, while the manual boxes can carry on almost indefinitely.

I thought that Crewe and Chester power boxes only date from the 1980s?

 

[The Planner]

There's Frodsham Jn too on the same stretch, recently upgraded for the Halton Curve route, and Norton (a more modern box), and Mickle Trafford.
All should really have gone into Chester or Warrington PSBs by now, but will probably wait till Manchester ROC takes the lot over.
Crewe resignalling should sort out Beeston Castle and Crewe Steel Works (it's an awkward long block between them).
The trouble it that the 1960/70s power boxes with obsolete electronics are needing renewal, while the manual boxes can carry on almost indefinitely.

Rail 940 has a picture of the ex-Midland Railway lower-quadrant semaphore at Ketton (Peterborough-Oakham route) which looks like being a heritage survivor - it's pre-1900.
It's said to be the only lower-quadrant signal left which is not of GWR origin.

Crewe won't touch Beeston as far as I know.

I thought that Crewe and Chester power boxes only date from the 1980s?

Still means they are reaching the end of their design life. Its normally only 40 years.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I thought that Crewe and Chester power boxes only date from the 1980s?

They are mid-1980s, and there are certainly some older, like Warrington/Preston/Carlisle.
All these 3, and Crewe, are likely to be swept up in the WCML upgrades necessary for HS2 in the north-west in the next decade, but no doubt older pockets will remain.

There's an article on the recent North Wales modular signalling in Modern Railways (Oct), suggesting that this Siemens low-cost technology is ripe for use on many rural routes.
That put Connah's Quay-Llysfaen into Cardiff ROC, sadly removing all semaphores on the route.