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London Buses Discussion

APT618S

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7 Dec 2018
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Does anyone know the sudden reason for 2 permanent bus stands being created in Margaret Street either side of Regent Street and what route will use them?
Presumably this will be for the 55 on the east side of Regent St and 159 on the west side.
See p19 of the PDF "Oxford St District June 2021"
in the link:
PDF link:
 
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Timmyd

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I've seen some very busy 521s this week, even before the big return to the office next week. I suspect the brutal cuts on the Red Arrow routes might prove to be a bit too deep just at the time a bit more capacity is needed.
 
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Busaholic

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Seen some very busy 521s this week, even before the big return to the office next week. I suspect the brutal cuts on the Red Arrow routes might prove to be a bit too deep just at the time a bit more capacity is needed
You could well be right, but at least TfL have retained a peak frequency double the offpeak, which is otherwise almost unknown these days, the X68 excepted. There's certainly the capability of increasing the between-peaks service, or of adjusting the shoulders, I'd have thought. Hopefully. two or three buses will not have been reallocated in case an immediate amendment to the new timetable is required, possibly as scheduled or unscheduled 'extras'.
 

Snow1964

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TfL are continuing the cuts to frequencies, routes 29, 59 this weekend, routes 22, 436, D7 next weekend (full details on link, but it is rather long list)


The D7 reduction will see off the last of the ex-Metrobus Scania (fleet 971-974), and is likely to see off more early (2007-2008) Enviro400 in Go Ahead Fleet.

Stagecoach have hired ex Tower Transit Volvo Gemini (same ones Metroline used in summer) to cover routes 160 and 180 (which they gain in next 3 week) because their 25 new BYD-ADL electric buses won’t be delivered in time. Tower Transit need them back in January for the temporary bus route during Northern line Bank closure.

Arriva has put 2 of 22 (EA2, EA5) new electric buses for route 319 into service this week, their first electric double decks. It appears these have roof pantographs, but this must be for future as no pantograph chargers appear to have been installed yet.

The first of RATP new single deck (BE class) have arrived at Fulwell, for route 371, and takeover of 290 in 3 weeks time. However currently only limited charging is available at FW pending commissioning of chargers (and power supply upgrade) expected end October or early November. (Fulwell will have about 70 electric buses for routes 65, 281, 290, 371)

Abellio have also withdrawn many 2009 Enviro 400 (fleet 94xx) following loss of route 49, and PVR cuts, but 10 of the 2007 batch linger on for now. More will probably leave after 414 is lost in November.
 
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Robertj21a

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TfL are continuing the cuts to frequencies, routes 29, 59 this weekend, routes 22, 436, D7 next weekend (full details on link, but it is rather long list)


The D7 reduction will see off the last of the ex-Metrobus Scania (fleet 971-974), and is likely to see off more early (2007-2008) Enviro400 in Go Ahead Fleet.

Stagecoach have hired ex Tower Transit Volvo Gemini (same ones Metroline used in summer) to cover routes 160 and 180 (which they gain in next 3 week) because their 25 new BYD-ADL electric buses won’t be delivered in time. Tower Transit need them back in January for the temporary bus route during Northern line Bank closure.

Arriva has put 2 of 22 (EA2, EA5) new electric buses for route 319 into service this week, their first electric double decks. It appears these have roof pantographs, but this must be for future as no pantograph chargers appear to have been installed yet.

The first of RATP new single deck (BE class) have arrived at Fulwell, for route 371, and takeover of 290 in 3 weeks time. However currently only limited charging is available at FW pending commissioning of chargers (and power supply upgrade) expected end October or early November. (Fulwell will have about 70 electric buses for routes 65, 281, 290, 371)

Abellio have also withdrawn many 2009 Enviro 400 (fleet 94xx) following loss of route 49, and PVR cuts, but 10 of the 2007 batch linger on for now. More will probably leave after 414 is lost in November.
I guess that there' are still a few more cuts in peak vehicle requirement (PVR) to come. Those routes carrying commuters to/from key stations must have been significantly affected by the drop in volumes.
 
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Andyh82

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The 7 running every 12 minutes is quite a low frequency, almost like the sort of thing you’d get outside London.

Realistically I think everything in Central London should be at least every 10 minutes.

Are TFL going to start publishing the exact timings on bus stops etc, because people can just turn up and go when it’s a high frequency, when it’s every 12 minutes, but with a hidden timetable, combined with Central London traffic, before long you could be waiting 20 minutes for a bus, which is unacceptable in London.
 
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johncrossley

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The 7 running every 12 minutes is quite a low frequency, almost like the sort of thing you’d get outside London

Realistically I think everything in Central London should be at least every 10 minutes.

Are TFL going to start publishing the exact timings on bus stops etc, because people can just turn up and go when it’s a high frequency, when it’s every 12 minutes, but with a hidden timetable, combined with Central London traffic, before long you could be waiting 20 minutes for a bus, which is unacceptable in London

Every 10/12 minutes has long been the typical frequency in most of London. Every 12 minutes or better counts as 'high frequency', where operators are supposed to maintain an even gap as possible between buses, not necessarily keeping to a set timetable. On such routes 'excess waiting time' (waiting time in excess of the advertised frequency) is measured rather than punctuality. There are still many roads where there is more than one route operating, so it is often best to get the first bus that comes and change. In general, central London has less need for high frequency compared to other parts of London because of the Tube.
 

Andyh82

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Do people actually do that in practice? I know the hopper fare promotes it but away from forums like this, and people who are network experts, if there is no bus 1 coming, do they catch a 2, change at X onto a 3 etc? I also wonder how many times they do that before ending up with a long wait at X and then end up boarding the original bus 1 they could have got in the first place.
 
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AM9

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Do people actually do that in practice? I know the hopper fare promotes it but away from forums like this, and people who are network experts, if there is no bus 1 coming, do they catch a 2, change at X onto a 3 etc. I also wonder how many times do they do that before ending up with a long wait at X and then end up boarding the original bus 1 they could have got in the first place
That would more likely only happen where 'bus1' was the only route from the change point to the destination. There are places in central London where two broadly parallel road routes have more than on bus route running along them with a single route starts on one road and then crosses over to the other travelling in the same overall direction.
 

SECR263

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6 Jun 2018
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Sorry to go off topic but on the TfL 249 route two bus shelters have been removed which were opposite each other at the junction of Church Rd and Beulah Hill by the Church. These were illuminated with glass sides. Are Tfl going on a cost cutting exercise?
 

Deerfold

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Sorry to go off topic but on the TfL 249 route two bus shelters have been removed which were opposite each other at the junction of Church Rd and Beulah Hill by the Church. These were illuminated with glass sides. Are Tfl going on a cost cutting exercise?
Most TfL bus shelters are provided by advertising companies under contract.
 
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LTs have started to appear on the 349 with LT185 currently in the route and LT197 on the route earlier

 

londonteacher

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Stagecoach (PD garage) are out route learning and have been the last week for their route 180 as you would expect. Surprisingly, they are also using their new buses so maybe some will be in service when they takeover alongside Tower Transit loans!
 

Andyh82

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I’m not sure if this is the right thread, but following the removal of all the coach parking bays on Embankment a number of years ago, and now the removal of coach parking on Park Lane, where do coaches tend to pick up/drop off and layover all day now?
 

MotCO

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I’m not sure if this is the right thread, but following the removal of all the coach parking bays on Embankment a number of years ago, and now the removal of coach parking on Park Lane, where do coaches tend to pick up/drop off and layover all day now?

They used to park up on a spare site on the south side of Vauxhall Bridge, but that site has long since been developed. Even further ago, some used to park up at Stockwell Bus Garage. But nowadays - no idea :s.
 

busesrusuk

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They used to park up on a spare site on the south side of Vauxhall Bridge, but that site has long since been developed. Even further ago, some used to park up at Stockwell Bus Garage. But nowadays - no idea :s.
The removal of the Park Lane spaces will, I am sure, come back to haunt Tfl in due course as the cycle lane is completely pointless and the reduction of road space on Park Lane is now causing congestion virtually all day long now. Coach parking hasn't been an issue of late as there have been few tourists coming in to London on coaches but that will change.

A number of London bus companies offered parking for coaches during daytime hours but take up was pretty low. There was a charge to park in the garage - not sure if coaches had to pay for parking in Park Lane; if it was free then its understandable that parking offered by bus companies had a low uptake.

This is one to watch as CPT spent an awful lot of time and energy fighting for extra spaces - at a stroke the Park Lane changes have lost about 20 or so spaces. Not easy to replace in central London...
 

Mikey C

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I was genuinely surprised when I went up Park Lane on a 13 the other day, as I hadn't realised the cycle lane had been installed.

There's a perfectly decent cycle lane through Park Lane, light that 24 hours a day and sort out the fencing if necessary to close the rest of the park, it's so much nicer
 

busesrusuk

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I was genuinely surprised when I went up Park Lane on a 13 the other day, as I hadn't realised the cycle lane had been installed.

There's a perfectly decent cycle lane through Park Lane, light that 24 hours a day and sort out the fencing if necessary to close the rest of the park, it's so much nicer
If they had left well alone, the existing bus lane would have been perfectly OK for the numbers of nocturnal cyclists out there. The Hyde Park cycle route is infinitely better than the new, additional one and judging by the numbers that use the new cycle lane it isn't worth the loss of the coach parking spaces or to ensure that the road is free flowing - remember Park Lane is one of the only main north-south arteries that doesn't encroach into the congestion zone so will inevitably be well used.

To add insult to injury the speed limit up Park Lane (northbound) has been reduced to 20mph (southbound is now 30mph). However, given the volume of traffic (which now reduces from three to one lane outside queen mums gate), 20mph can for long periods of time be like an unattainable dream.
 

galwhv69

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If anyone isn't yet aware, LVF (London Vehicle Finder) (lvf.io) is being locked down to registered users only very soon, due to recent selfish DDoS attacks on the website. You should register now, as once the site gets locked down, verification will be done manually and will take considerably longer. Register at lvf.io/register

Quote from Brian Cheyney, LVF Admin:
We are making good progress towards having a fully registered user base with over a thousand registered users. However these users currently represent less than half of hits on the website. I've been trying to give those who haven't registered a gentle (or not so gentle) hint to register. We aim to lock down LVF this weekend, so if you haven't registered and still want to use LVF, time is running out.
 

GusB

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If anyone isn't yet aware, LVF (London Vehicle Finder) (lvf.io) is being locked down to registered users only very soon, due to recent selfish DDoS attacks on the website. You should register now, as once the site gets locked down, verification will be done manually and will take considerably longer. Register at lvf.io/register

Quote from Brian Cheyney, LVF Admin:
Thanks for this - I'll copy your post over to the Lothian thread, as there are a few readers there who use the site.
 

TitanMike

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6 Aug 2018
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Tower Transit's parent company is to form a joint venture with RATP-DEV London to operate Westbourne Park Garage. Lea Interchange stays with Tower Transit for now.



SEALINK ENTERS BINDING JOINT VENTURE AGREEMENT FOR WEST LONDON BUS OPERATIONS​

Wednesday 22 September 2021


RATP-Bulletlist.png

SeaLink Travel Group Limited (ASX:sLK) (“SeaLink”) advises that today it has entered into binding agreements (subject to certain conditions precedent) (“Transaction”) to form an incorporated joint venture with RATP Dev UK Ltd (“RATP Dev UK”), to be called RATP Dev London Transit Ltd (“RDLT”). The scope of the Transaction relates to SeaLink’s current West London public bus transport service operations conducted by its wholly owned subsidiary Tower Transit Operations Ltd (“TTOL”). The Westbourne Park London TTOL bus operations and those of London United Busways Limited and London Sovereign Limited are proposed to be acquired by RDLT on completion of the Transaction, with TTOL’s immediate parent Tower Transit Ltd then holding a 12.5% interest in RDLT (the joint venture company).
The Transaction includes the following:
  • Divesting contracts, staff and operating assets associated with the Westbourne Park London bus transport operations into the new joint venture, except the freehold Westbourne Park property which will be sub-leased to RDLT for a term of up to 40 years;
  • At completion of the Transaction, SeaLink will contribute net assets of around £500,000 including its interests in TTOL contracts for eight London routes for bus services operated out of the Westbourne Park depot in exchange for the initial 12.5% interest in the joint venture company;
  • SeaLink to have representation on the RDLT Board; and
  • Co-branding of the joint venture assets.
Management, staff and assets associated with TTOL London operations at Lea Interchange (currently operating ten routes with two more awarded) are not included in the initial operations to be transferred into the RDLT joint venture and options for this asset are still being analysed, with an outcome expected in a similar time frame to the completion of the Transaction.
The Transaction is targeted for completion in December 2021. Completion of the Transaction is subject to certain conditions precedent including:
  • Third party customer consents from Transport for London; • Grant of necessary operating licences and consents from relevant traffic regulatory authorities;
  • Consents for transfer and leasing of relevant property rights required to effect the Transaction and for RDLT to undertake the proposed operations at the relevant properties following completion;
  • Financier consents to novation of existing bus leasing and financing arrangements to RDLT and establishing new corporate facilities for RDLT; and
  • SeaLink financier consents for the restructure of its interests and assets as a result of the Transaction.
Following completion of the Transaction, other than indemnities proportional to its proposed 12.5% interest in the joint venture in favour of RATP Dev group companies who are responsible for RDLT financing and performance arrangements, the joint venture will operate on a ‘standalone’ basis and SeaLink will have no obligations to make further capital contribution to RDLT.

About RATP Dev​

Dev Founded in 2002, RATP Dev operates and maintains urban transportation systems in 13 countries on four continents (Egypt, the United Kingdom, France, Italy, Switzerland, Algeria, Morocco, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, China, the Philippines, and the United States of America). With more than 1.5 billion passengers travelling on its networks every year, RATP Dev demonstrates every day its extensive and renowned expertise in a wide range of mobility services, ranging from rail, regional express rail, tramway, to bus, cable car, and sightseeing activities. RATP Dev leverages in France, outside of Paris, and across international markets the technical expertise and experience of the RATP Dev group, the leader in driverless and tramway operations and operator of the Paris network, one of the largest public transportation networks in the world. For more information see : www.ratpdev.com
In London, RATP Dev UK employs over 3,500 valued team members transporting 250 million passengers each year around the capital. It operates 1,100 buses on over 100 routes from 10 garages located in West London. By 2022, 24% of the RATP Dev UK London fleet will be electric with the electrification of 6 of its garages operating 13 electric routes.
Authorised for release by the Mr Clinton Feuerherdt, Group CEO SeaLink Travel Group Limited

 

Busaholic

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Tower Transit's parent company is to form a joint venture with RATP-DEV London to operate Westbourne Park Garage. Lea Interchange stays with Tower Transit for now.




Presumably this has been 'run by' TfL and not met unbending opposition there. It'll be interesting to see what happens to Tower Transit's Lea Interchange operations.
 

Andyh82

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I noticed on a recent visit that the New Routemasters are increasingly looking scruffy with faded paint work, replacement panels in different shades of red, scrapes and dents, partially or fully missing roundals on the front.

Is this because they are owned by TfL rather than the private bus firms, so no money to repaint them, or maybe just my imagination due them being probably some of the oldest buses currently seen in Central London?
 

Robertj21a

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I noticed on a recent visit that the New Routemasters are increasingly looking scruffy with faded paint work, replacement panels in different shades of red, scrapes and dents, partially or fully missing roundals on the front.

Is this because they are owned by TfL rather than the private bus firms, so no money to repaint them, or maybe just my imagination due them being probably some of the oldest buses currently seen in Central London
Unloved by most, uncared for by many.
 

johncrossley

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It there anywhere to see a live map of London buses? They are excluded from bustimes.org.


has live maps for individual routes, but it would be good to see a map for all routes at once.
 

Andyh82

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Unloved by most, uncared for by many.
Well if you are suggesting TfL are allowing them to be run into the ground for political reasons, as I assume they haven’t got the funds to make the ultimate political statement and scrap them, they’d be best keeping them looking decent?
 

Robertj21a

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Well if you are suggesting TfL are allowing them to be run into the ground for political reasons, as I assume they haven’t got the funds to make the ultimate political statement and scrap them, they’d be best keeping them looking decent?
I wasn't suggesting that TfL was consciously doing anything. Perhaps that's the problem.
 

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