What changes would you make for the tube

[aspierail]

Im going to post a few questions about changes for the tube.


Which tube lines do you think should be extended?

Which tube line in your opinion should be renamed?

 

[generalvegitable]

Which tube lines do you think should be extended?
I think that the Met should be extended back to Aylesbury and take over all passenger services to the town, dunno why but I just think it is a sensible idea

Which tube line in your opinion should be renamed?
The Northern Line, surely the trade descriptions act applies here?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

1) I'd go ahead with the often considered splitting of the Northern Line into two lines, with the Charing X branch terminating at Kennington. Can't make up my mind which branch should serve which northern end destinations though!

2) Southern end of Northern Line - extend to Sutton, in tubes, create interchange with the existing Sutton station by putting the tube station directly underneath it.

3) Extend Waterloo and City Line to Liverpool Street ( though I realise that this cannot be done in reality because of what lies ahead of the present tunnels at Bank ).

4) That other old chestnut, Holborn to Charing Cross via Aldwych would be on my radar as well, as a shuttle in similar vein to the "bis" lines on the Pris Metro.

5) Re-livery the fleet; a deep red shade with light grey roofs, golden lettering for the branding and numbering on the carriage sides and green and cream interiors would be nice...

 

[causton]

Extension to Hertfordshire? (as in, further than Watford)

and erm, rename the central line as an entire loop of it is not at all central!

 

[A0wen]

Extension to Hertfordshire? (as in, further than Watford)

and erm, rename the central line as an entire loop of it is not at all central!

The only possibility would be extending the Northern line to Bushey (which was originally planned to happen but dropped after WW2). There's no point in extending the tube beyond that as surface rail routes cover Herts well enough.

My changes / improvements:

Re-link Mill Hill East - Edgware (Northern Line)

Re-link Finchley - Finsbury Pk

Separately I'd also insist all new stock deliveries were air-cond as standard. Tube is decidedly unpleasant in the middle of summer.

 

[ushawk]

Mine would be extend the Bakerloo Line up to Watford Jct.

 

[jopsuk]

Major works? See about lowering the track bed/extending the tunnel upwards enough to convert the Sub Surface lines to OHL and run AC stock along it. This would allow for more "end point" destinations further out. I'd also terminate the Bakerloo at Queen's Park, OHL the Watford DC and make that a far more intensive service. I'd see if the branches of the Picadilly beyond Acton could be included- terminating the Picadilly at Acton.
I'd split the Northern into Edgeware-Charing Cross-Battersea and Barnet-Bank-Morden. I'd rename both lines.
So, with mainline compatible stock now running the Sub Surface, I'd make a land-grab of mainline "Metro" services run by the TOCs and incorporate them into TfL Overground. I'd then look at comprehsively reworking the metro services into a more integrated system.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Jopsuk, a number of years ago I actually wrote in with a detailed suggestion that the sub surface lines should be used more like their original purpose ( ie through routes ) than how they are the moment.

The idea being that instead of having everyone change across London, it would be a series of through services somewhat like the Paris RER but without having to dig lots of new tunnels.

For capacity I proposed a version of the Networker ( which was just being introduced at the time ) designed with full articulation ( and shorter carriages but more of them to get around the tight clearances in places ) and, like the 378s now, full walk through.

Frequencies would be like they are now, the only differences being services running through to outer suburban main line desinations. It would still serve all stations within the present area with all trains.

Such a service would be designed to reduce the crowding on the tubes and at the main termini stations in pretty much the same way the RER relieves the Metro in Paris while still moving all the intermediate journey people on the SSLs. ( Think of the capacity a fully walk through Networker would have; I further proposed using this walk through feature combined with the door positions and platform monitors to allow the stock to have ½ a carriage in the tunnels at each end of each station to avoid having to extend platforms... ).

The reason it was rejected?

They thought it would attract far too many new passengers....:roll:

 

[At_traction]

Rename Charing X @Bakerloo back to Trafalgar Sq.

Extend tube towards Chelsea poshiers (as a Victoria branch?), perhaps continuing across the river to Battersea/Clapham.

Extend Victoria towards Camberwell/Deptford as a second east-west connection south of the river.

Extend Jubilee from Charing X toward Aldwych & City according to the original plan (though mainly as a relief line for Piccadilly and Metropolitan).

 

[jopsuk]

The reason it was rejected?

They thought it would attract far too many new passengers....:roll:

Crikey. They never think about what they're saying when they say this do they?

One side effect would be that it would substantially alter the tube map. The south of London does actually have a decent metro network provided by SouthEastern, Southern, SouthWest Trains, FCC and Overground. But this only appears, in somewhat confusing form, on the "London Connections" map. The "Tube Map" makes it look as if south of the river is poorly served.

 

[At_traction]

The south of London does actually have a decent metro network provided by SouthEastern, Southern, SouthWest Trains, FCC and Overground. But this only appears, in somewhat confusing form, on the "London Connections" map. The "Tube Map" makes it look as if south of the river is poorly served.

Well. Depends on what the distance between urban rail service lines and stations comprises good service. Of course there are always buses etc. but the fact is that, for example, the huge triangle between London Bdge, Brixton and Deptford is poorly served by anything but buses. The contrast to the connections north of the river (even rather far north, in fact) or even the area immediately south of Thames is notable. And of course there are other such large pockets poorly served by rail. Especially large when on foot.

 

[Aictos]

I think the most important thing would be to include Potters Bar as being within Zone 6 as Epping served by the Central line is outside London.

If possible, I would welcome a link between Mill Hill East - Edgware to act as a loop to which LUL services can be turned and also if possible finalise the extension to Sutton (Northern Line)

I would also close the Northern City Line as a former LUL line for a period of time in order to lower the track and also at the same time install step free access to Finsbury Park, Highbury & Islington, Old Street and Moorgate.

Finally I would welcome a link between Richmond and Wimbledon on the District line.

 

[Mojo]

I'd like to see a new station on the Victoria line between Oxford Circus and Warren Street (preferably at the top of my street where it passes) so I can have an extra 10 minutes in bed and get less wet/cold on my way to work.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Crikey. They never think about what they're saying when they say this do they?

Sad thing is I think they actually meant it; they also failed to realise that a lot of the people using the SSL by changing at the extremeity connections at present would be ones who would use a through service without changing at those locations, so it wouldn't really add to the passenger volume much - just move them in a more efficient way.

Unfortunately, of course, as we now have the S stock coming on stream the opportunity is now lost for another 40 years or so isn't it?

 

[313103]

The one thing i would do is make the circle a circle line again, making trains run to Hammersmith instead of going round and round means that upto 500 people trying to use the tiny ill equipped staircase on the western extremity of Paddington (Met) station whilst an equal amount are trying to get down.

 

[colchesterken]

I like the idea of joining up the sub surface lines with B R
Have i been dreaming or did i read that platform 1 & 2 at Liverpool st were once joined to the circle line
Reconnect them and run from Enfield & Chingford to Uxbridge or join up with Thameslink
Build suitable gague dual voltage stock and run trains from Ealing to Southend like they used to do
Join up the circle to Thameslink at the old Kings Cross Thameslink station
all the new work would mean they could not join at Farringdon
Join Hammersmith and city at Paddington and run direct from the city to London airport or when they electrify the GWR on to Devon --now I am being silly

 

[313103]

I like the idea of joining up the sub surface lines with B R

Now thats a blast from the long distance past!

 

[jopsuk]

Ideally though if more "through" services (I'd restrict them to "metro" area- which extends a bit beyond zone 6- only) were using the Circle a second pair of tracks would be useful the whole way round to allow a grade-seperated, high-intensity, Circle service with cross-platform interchange.
Would also be useful for Thameslink and Crossrail to be four-track through the middle- could then have long distance (on TL- the services to/from Brighton, Gatwick, Luton and Bedford) being "limited stop" through the centre, with stopping services forming part of the new grand London Overground Metro.

 

[Wolfie]

Naive possibly questions from a non-insider:

1 Could the Waterloo and City line be hooked up with the FCC service which runs into Moorgate? I know Bank/Monument to Moorgate is no great distance but what is in the way?

2 Failing that could the DLR at Monument be connected to the Waterloo and City line? I suspect loading guages might be an issue....

 

[jopsuk]

Both have been suggested in the past. Both are technically possible as I understand it.

 

[Wolfie]

Both have been suggested in the past. Both are technically possible as I understand it.

Interesting.

To my mind both would make what is a limited spur much more useful as well as freeing a number of trains for Central Line use - yes I know new (or additional) stock would be needed for the extension.....

A further Q: Given that the FCC line down from Finsbury Park to Moorgate was originally built to be part of the Northern line would the existing rolling stock be able to run on the Waterloo and City (general terms rather than a comprehensive clearence!!!)?

 

[At_traction]

Both have been suggested in the past. Both are technically possible as I understand it.

What's the level of the W&C platforms at Bank? I thought that the Central Line platforms (and line) effectively block at least a direct route to Moorgate from the existing W&C platforms.

Similarly, as I've understood, with its existing platforms, the DLR would have to make a 90-ish degree tight turn to align with the W&C line and the current W&C terminus would have to be abandoned due to the height difference of the lines. On the other hand, if the DLR stock replaces the W&C one (what's the gauge difference, reboring needed?), the present DLR station could become the new common station. An assault course away from the Bank entrance concourse...

 

[LE Greys]

Met back to Aylesbury in conjunction with electrifying Chiltern (overhead). Stock would change over at Harrow with a second changeover point at Moor Park if necessary. Also, the new stock would have gangways throughout and toilets, just like (say) a 450.

Build a flyover at Canonbury and get the ELL to Finsbury Park. Consider extending it to Edgware via Mill Hill East, possibly taking over the High Barnet branch as well, with the Northern going to Alexandra Palace.

Run the proposed Chelney line up the Thames via Fulham, Barn Elms, Chiswick and Brentford, where it would split. One branch would go to Boston Manor, then follow the old Brentford Goods branch to Southall. The other would run via Syon Lane, Hounslow and Feltham to Hatton Cross, then go around the Heathrow Loop the opposite way to the Piccadilly, but including Terminal 5.

Plug the Waterloo and City into the DLR at Bank, with a new station at Blackfriars

Extend the Bakerloo to Camberwell, Queen's Road Peckham, New Cross Gate and Lewisham

Extend the Victoria to Crystal Palace

Extend the Central to Denham

Put the Epping-Ongar Railway on the diagram

Modify the diagram so it looks more like the HC Beck 1964 version (which was a lot clearer than the one they used)

 

[317 forever]

Although this doesn't involve London Underground, I think the Lewisham-Hayes service of SouthEastern should be transferred to the DLR (extended from Lewisham) or even London Overground (extended from New Cross). About 10 years ago it was intended that the Surrey Quays-New Cross service would cease when the Overground service started but now that it has been reprieved this would make good use of it.

 

[Class377/5]

Although this doesn't involve London Underground, I think the Lewisham-Hayes service of SouthEastern should be transferred to the DLR (extended from Lewisham) or even London Overground (extended from New Cross). About 10 years ago it was intended that the Surrey Quays-New Cross service would cease when the Overground service started but now that it has been reprieved this would make good use of it.

And in the 70's they looked at extending the ELL to Liverpool Street and to Lewisham so its a case of ideas going around in circles.

Question is do the Hayes customers want the City or do they want Central London? Operationally it may be a good idea but if no-one wants it then its not a good idea.

 

[317 forever]

Actually it occurs to me that the Hayes section could probably not be taken over by the DLR as it is a useful diversionary route for trains to/from Sevenoaks and beyond when the main line via Grove Park is closed.

Another route that could go over to the Underground would be Ealing Broadway-Greenford, replaced by an extension of the Central Line. Meanwhile the District Line could be extended from Ealing Broadway to Heathrow T4 via Hayes & Harlington.

The District Line could also be extended from Richmond to Kingston via Twickenham, and from Wimbledon to Chessington South.

As you may have gathered, I prefer rail routes entirely in Greater London being operated by London Underground or Overground rather than National Rail franchisees. The SWT routes outlined above could thus be replaced by extensions of London Overground from Clapham Junction or Richmond instead.

 

[Bunting14]

Extend District line to Cranham using part of Upminster depot.

 

[ConSiding]

I would rename the District Line between Edgware Road and Wimbledon. It makes no sense for this to be called the District Line, there are no through trains to other parts of the District Line, and it's not even operated by District Line stock. I don't know what it should be called - it would need a new name.

 

[jopsuk]

I've heard it referred to as the "Wimbleware" service- in a similar fashion to the "Bakerloo" line.

 

[313103]

Guess what, whilst it is not really part of this thread, the circle line operated as a proper circle line service over the weekend, none of this nonsense that they normally do.