ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[Mag_seven]

Have the RMT not even considered meeting the company half way or is it all "give us everything we want or else".

 

[Starmill]

I don't understand why so many people thought the strike was unlikely. It's plain that RMT won't agree to anything that doesn't cost ScotRail more money. It's also plain ScotRail won't actually have that money to agree a deal. There would have been a deal to be had on efficiency but of course that was also ruled out some time ago. Therefore, because the actual actors with the levers of power aren't in the negotiation there is little prospect of any resolution.

 

[Christmas]

Have the RMT not even considered meeting the company half way or is it all "give us everything we want or else".

Halfway would be reinstate the rest day working agreement, as it would only be a gesture and would cost ScotRail precisely nothing as they've filled all of their vacancies.

ScotRail has treated RMT members with contempt from the very beginning of this action. There's no money, not a penny, zero, zilch. Then ASLEF comes along and suddenly there's money. It's the same with the bonus for operating throughout COP of £300 pp. Where did this materialise from?

Make no mistake, this has nothing to do with Abellio, the blame lies firmly with the SNP executive.

Perhaps if they paid people for their efforts throughout the pandemic instead of trying to indoctrinate people into vanity issues like speaking Gaelic, we'd not be the laughing stock in a fortnight's time.

 

[68000]

Email from the union there to say they can't hold strikes relating to two disputes at the same time, so they are suspending the RDW enhancement related strike on Sunday the 7th of November.

I'm starting to get a bit confused now tbh.

I was told by one poster on here that the strike during COP26 was the RDW enhancement one

Now it appears it is nothing to do with the RDW one so what is it about?

 

[alangla]

I see ScotRail concentrating on the SPT DOO network, perhaps even the Edinburgh to Helensburgh.

Probably just Edinburgh to Dalmuir and maybe Rutherglen to Milngavie or Dalmuir. With the conference taking place on the Argyle line, presumably they’ll need to deploy some staff to keep GLC LL open (never seen any NR staff down there), Argyle Street and Exhibition Centre (it’ll probably be so busy it’ll need the concert crowd control staff). I can see Anderston and Dalmarnock being closed.
Theoretically, they could run 380s from Edinburgh via Shotts or Carstairs onto the Argyle Line as 380s operated Rutherglen to Garscadden shuttles during the Commonwealth Games but surely they’ll keep it simple.

 

[Starmill]

As for a £300 non-consolidated payment during the Conference, that's much, much less than an annualised and pensionable 3-4% rise would be. Also, haven't public transport operators been given special grants for the Conference? In exchange the attendees have passes valid for the area.

Probably just Edinburgh to Dalmuir and maybe Rutherglen to Milngavie or Dalmuir. With the conference taking place on the Argyle line, presumably they’ll need to deploy some staff to keep GLC LL open (never seen any NR staff down there), Argyle Street and Exhibition Centre (it’ll probably be so busy it’ll need the concert crowd control staff). I can see Anderston and Dalmarnock being closed.
Theoretically, they could run 380s from Edinburgh via Shotts or Carstairs onto the Argyle Line as 380s operated Rutherglen to Garscadden shuttles during the Commonwealth Games but surely they’ll keep it simple.

Can Class 385s work to Garscadden or Dalmuir via Glasgow Central?

 

[LoogaBarooga]

More talks arranged for tomorrow morning.

 

[320320]

Can Class 385s work to Garscadden or Dalmuir via Glasgow Central?

During the commonwealth games they were used for a shuttle between dalmarnock and garscadden with reversing points at rutherglen west curve and Yoker yard.

 

[Falcon1200]

Edinburgh to Glasgow are covered by LNER and CrossCountry

For years there has only been 1 LNER train a day each way between Edinburgh and Glasgow, and at present XC just run 3 each way, so a very limited service !

 

[Christmas]

For years there has only been 1 LNER train a day each way between Edinburgh and Glasgow, and at present XC just run 3 each way, so a very limited service !

The point is that people won't be stuck. East Coast paths between Glasgow and Edinburgh were mainly replaced by CrossCountry.

 

[gnolife]

The point is that people won't be stuck. East Coast paths between Glasgow and Edinburgh were mainly replaced by CrossCountry.

Unless you want to leave Glasgow, or worse, Motherwell after 8am, in which case you're stuffed until 7pm

 

[Falcon1200]

The point is that people won't be stuck. East Coast paths between Glasgow and Edinburgh were mainly replaced by CrossCountry.

True, but apart from three as I mentioned those XC trains no longer run ! There is, for example, no XC or LNER service from Glasgow Central to Edinburgh between 0748 and 1900.

 

[alangla]

During the commonwealth games they were used for a shuttle between dalmarnock and garscadden with reversing points at rutherglen west curve and Yoker yard.

That was definitely 380s, the 385s weren’t introduced till 2018! I think you’re right about the reversing points though, I had the bi-di on P1 in mind but I’m not sure that was there in 2014

 

[MDB1images]

Many trains are sometimes, but is it mandatory?

Tbh I'm not sure on what/if Avanti have as contingency Method of work.

 

[LowLevel]

Tbh I'm not sure on what/if Avanti have as contingency Method of work.

The train manager just gets on with it at more minor stations. Happens frequently at places like Tamworth known for their short staffing. At places where the station staff give the driver the RA they have to come to a clear understanding to use the buzzer instead but unless the risk assessment for the location says self dispatch is banned (at Birmingham New Street for example, not somewhere like Lockerbie) it just requires more care to be taken.

 

[320320]

That was definitely 380s, the 385s weren’t introduced till 2018! I think you’re right about the reversing points though, I had the bi-di on P1 in mind but I’m not sure that was there in 2014

You’re right, I read that as 380s. Reversing on p1 at rutherglen was possible as the signal was there but it’s only ever used for reversing if the line from cambuslang is blocked and nothing is being held up, otherwise you turn on the curve.

 

[Christmas]

I've been shown the email from someone named Ian McConnell, Chief Operating Officer for ScotRail. I've never heard of the man but he seems to be trying to terrify RMT members by telling them that their union is keeping them in the dark and they'll be losing 12 days wages.

Lies.

The most anyone will lose is 8 days pay after rest days are factored in.
Secondly safety briefings will be cut from 3 per year to just one, although I've yet to meet anyone who has been to 3 briefings in one year. The bulk of briefings will be delivered online for staff to brush up on in some vague period he calls 'downtime'. Would that be when conductors are spare but are suddenly sent to staff a barrier that ScotRail has failed to provide gateline staff for?

Honestly, these managers and executives are just grifters. Here today and gone tomorrow. Not career railway people but career scavengers. It really disgusts me that people like that are running Britain's railways.

 

[kkong]

I hope you are trolling, but sadly I fear you are being serious.

In what industry other the railway would someone sit around "spare" doing nothing instead of offering to help out their colleagues who might need a hand?

 

[bluesfromagun]

Probably just Edinburgh to Dalmuir and maybe Rutherglen to Milngavie or Dalmuir. With the conference taking place on the Argyle line, presumably they’ll need to deploy some staff to keep GLC LL open (never seen any NR staff down there), Argyle Street and Exhibition Centre (it’ll probably be so busy it’ll need the concert crowd control staff). I can see Anderston and Dalmarnock being closed.
Theoretically, they could run 380s from Edinburgh via Shotts or Carstairs onto the Argyle Line as 380s operated Rutherglen to Garscadden shuttles during the Commonwealth Games but surely they’ll keep it simple.

It's worth remembering that only one class of traction (334) and only one route (Bathgate) is passed for DOO passenger trains out of Edinburgh. So 380s, 385s - even though they are used as DOO trains in the former SPT area - cannot be used in that way outside of it.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

I hope you are trolling, but sadly I fear you are being serious.

In what industry other the railway would someone sit around "spare" doing nothing instead of offering to help out their colleagues who might need a hand?

What's the alternative to having spares?

 

[InOban]

What's the alternative to having spares?

In hospitals recently retired staff, or those who usually work part-time for, say, family reasons, go on the 'bank' and are called in when necessary. The idea of having spare staff waiting around in case they are needed? Unheard of.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Something like that wouldn't be practical if a train is urgently needing to be covered or if someone phones in sick at the last minute.

 

[Starmill]

In hospitals recently retired staff, or those who usually work part-time for, say, family reasons, go on the 'bank' and are called in when necessary. The idea of having spare staff waiting around in case they are needed? Unheard of.

While I agree with the sentiment, the "service" being provided by almost all British hospitals is severely degraded to the point of only just being safe as a result of chronic under-resourcing. There may even be a growing number of cases where care which does not meet the bar is now being offered, because the alternative is no care at all for someone else. Not a delivery model to take much inspiration from.

 

[43066]

I hope you are trolling, but sadly I fear you are being serious.

In what industry other the railway would someone sit around "spare" doing nothing instead of offering to help out their colleagues who might need a hand?

So next time you’re at work, if your boss asks you to go and clean the toilets because the cleaners are short staffed “and need a hand”, you’ll be fine with that will you? Laughable.

What's the alternative to having spares?

Allocating work effectively is the obvious alternative. It’s clearly news to people on here, but traincrew don’t get to choose to sit spare. Some would say that getting up at 0300 on a weekend, and trekking to work to sit in a gloomy mess room rather than spending time with family and loved ones, doesn’t count as “doing nothing” either

In hospitals recently retired staff, or those who usually work part-time for, say, family reasons, go on the 'bank' and are called in when necessary. The idea of having spare staff waiting around in case they are needed? Unheard of.

I’m not sure the NHS is exactly a shining beacon of efficient working practices - the last eighteen months have shown it’s utterly broken - so I’m not sure what your point is here?

 

[Berliner]

I hope you are trolling, but sadly I fear you are being serious.

In what industry other the railway would someone sit around "spare" doing nothing instead of offering to help out their colleagues who might need a hand?

In hospitals recently retired staff, or those who usually work part-time for, say, family reasons, go on the 'bank' and are called in when necessary. The idea of having spare staff waiting around in case they are needed? Unheard of.

I'm not sure what either of you are getting at.

In aviation most airlines have home or airport standby crews who are ready to be at the airport within a certain time or are already there. They will sit around In a rest room at the airport or at home for a set period until needed and then stand down if they aren't. They will be paid for these shifts as they are expected to be ready to work at a moment's notice if needed, it's not a day off.

Isn't this exactly the same as a spare shift on the railway? It's absolutely not unheard of or exclusive to the railway. I imagine many industries have a similar set up. If they didn't then things would never get covered as people on days off could rightly refuse to come in at a moment's notice. At least on a spare/standby shift you know that time isn't yours.

 

[320320]

I hope you are trolling, but sadly I fear you are being serious.

In what industry other the railway would someone sit around "spare" doing nothing instead of offering to help out their colleagues who might need a hand?

Why have you put spare in inverted commas? This is a requirement in the roster for service protection and if the roster is properly filled with no vacancies then their shouldn’t be any colleagues who might need a hand.

In hospitals recently retired staff, or those who usually work part-time for, say, family reasons, go on the 'bank' and are called in when necessary. The idea of having spare staff waiting around in case they are needed? Unheard of.

So what do you do when someone booking on at 5am has slept in or their cars broken down or later in the day when they have an emergency or go sick at the last minute? Who covers those services at immediate notice?
By the time you’ve phoned people at home and tried to get them to drop everything to come to work it’s too late, services have been cancelled and the cost of those cancellations and and associated delays of other services are far greater than the cost of having spare staff on duty.

 

[LowLevel]

Why have you put spare in inverted commas? This is a requirement in the roster for service protection and if the roster is properly filled with no vacancies then their shouldn’t be any colleagues who might need a hand.



So what do you do when someone booking on at 5am has slept in or their cars broken down or later in the day when they have an emergency or go sick at the last minute? Who covers those services at immediate notice?
By the time you’ve phoned people at home and tried to get them to drop everything to come to work it’s too late, services have been cancelled and the cost of those cancellations and and associated delays of other services are far greater than the cost of having spare staff on duty.

We have 4 x booked "service recovery" turns spread through the day for both drivers and guards that can cover all booked work if need be, are considered considered be running turns and thus will be filled if at all possible including with RDW. Of course sometimes you use them all but not often.

Not all depots have them but the larger ones with the most route knowledge do.

 

[InOban]

I believe that hospital managers will put their admin duties to one side and step in to cover gaps in a hospital. There will have been a great deal of that in the past two years.

 

[Fat Pav]

I've been shown the email from someone named Ian McConnell, Chief Operating Officer for ScotRail. I've never heard of the man but he seems to be trying to terrify RMT members by telling them that their union is keeping them in the dark and they'll be losing 12 days wages.

Lies.

The most anyone will lose is 8 days pay after rest days are factored in.
Secondly safety briefings will be cut from 3 per year to just one, although I've yet to meet anyone who has been to 3 briefings in one year. The bulk of briefings will be delivered online for staff to brush up on in some vague period he calls 'downtime'. Would that be when conductors are spare but are suddenly sent to staff a barrier that ScotRail has failed to provide gateline staff for?

Honestly, these managers and executives are just grifters. Here today and gone tomorrow. Not career railway people but career scavengers. It really disgusts me that people like that are running Britain's railways.

I am a TE for Scotrail, I read this email yesterday and assumed that the downtime meant my rest days. That's how I've interpreted it. Me being spare isn't downtime. It's working.

 

[scotraildriver]

I am a TE for Scotrail, I read this email yesterday and assumed that the downtime meant my rest days. That's how I've interpreted it. Me being spare isn't downtime. It's working.

The 2nd part of the 2 year deal that drivers got last year was in exchange for ALL face to face briefings. We don't get any now and yes, you are expected to read your briefings at home, or on you're break.