Scotrail, Abellio and April

[Blindtraveler]

I really miss the the two hourly xc2 Glasgow and back, used it so many times either if I wanted to go to Glasgow or if if to connect in and out of other services from Central. Say what you like about voyages but it was a much better offering all round in terms of quality comfort and service, as you were to all intents and purposes making a short journey on an intercity train. I can also have a drink on the late night service back from Edinburgh via the sub if I wanted it and and on the several occasions that I upgraded to first class they looked after passengers extremely well

 

[Deltic1961]

Traditionally whenever someone has had a go at Scotrail for ticket prices or increases they reply back its not them that sets the fares. Hmmmm.

Can't see why they don't just drop the whole peak thing and just charge by journey mile. Would be far more transparent. Plain to see those in government that use the train claim the fares on expenses.

Also pees me off they increase short commuter journeys by a minimum of 10p blaming the machines.

 

[Kite159]

To counter the LNER 3 trains a day to Aberdeen piece. There may only be 3, but, they do leave at predictable times and have done so for over 20 years. Many people know the times off by heart.
The service level is predictable.
The machine used is predictable.

In short, you are getting a guaranteed minimum level of service and that is what people want.

This is what the HST was supposed to bring to Scotrail, but it has not happened, and so many passengers are still using the LNER service which is having an impact on Scotrails income.

They are also 9 coaches long rather than somewhere between 2 & 5 coaches for the ScotRail services so a better chance of someone being able to get a seat if they are not boarding at the start of the journey

 

[Blindtraveler]

A little sad that perhaps that the majority of these nine coaches are fitted with seats that would be better in a torture chamber than on a train. But I'm away that's off topic

 

[Wynd]

I just read this morning that the "end user" or passenger is now covering 26% of the cost of scotrail services.

To me, that looks unsustainable.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If that is what we are paying based on the already somewhat hefty fairs on some flows in particular, I dread to think what those fears would actually be in real terms if they were adjusted so that the end user covers say 75%

 

[Wynd]

What needs to happen is revenue needs to go up. Dramatically. That means providing a service that competes with LNER and getting more carriages on services.

 

[Christmas]

It seems that ScotRail has forgotten that the name of the main station in the capital is Edinburgh Waverley. They seem to have dropped the Waverley part in all automated announcements both on trains and in station PAs, as well as on the departure boards. Very odd.

 

[Bald Rick]

I just read this morning that the "end user" or passenger is now covering 26% of the cost of scotrail services.

To me, that looks unsustainable.

it was only 39% Pre Covid.

What needs to happen is revenue needs to go up. Dramatically. That means providing a service that competes with LNER and getting more carriages on services.

Agreed that revenue needs to go up, but it also needs to go up by more than the increase in costs of generating it.

Filling existing seats is a first priority.

And taking passengers off other train operators doesn’t help, at all.

 

[Wynd]

it was only 39% Pre Covid.



Agreed that revenue needs to go up, but it also needs to go up by more than the increase in costs of generating it.

Filling existing seats is a first priority.

And taking passengers off other train operators doesn’t help, at all.

39% does not fill one with confidence either.

Filling existing seats is difficult when many people don't like the machines those seats are in.

I don't see how increasing the loading's, by offering something at least on a par with the competition, doesn't improve the situation?

 

[Ex-controller]

39% does not fill one with confidence either.

Filling existing seats is difficult when many people don't like the machines those seats are in.

I don't see how increasing the loading's, by offering something at least on a par with the competition, doesn't improve the situation?

I’m not sure it’s ever going to be any other way in Scotland. Some of the routes cross some of the most sparsely populated areas in Europe. It’s always going to be very heavily subsidised.

 

[InOban]

39% does not fill one with confidence either.

Filling existing seats is difficult when many people don't like the machines those seats are in.

I don't see how increasing the loading's, by offering something at least on a par with the competition, doesn't improve the situation?

I believe that Northern was worse than Scotrail pre-covid.

 

[Bald Rick]

Filling existing seats is difficult when many people don't like the machines those seats are in.

most people sim0y don’t care, or even notice the difference.

I don't see how increasing the loading's, by offering something at least on a par with the competition, doesn't improve the situation?

because if ‘offering something on par with the competition’ costs more to deliver than the revenue it generates, and/or the revenue generated is simply transferred from another part of the industry, it makes the industry worse off.

I believe that Northern was worse than Scotrail pre-covid.

slightly better, but in hair-splitting territory.

 

[PG]

most people sim0y don’t care, or even notice the difference.

See @Wynd's post #178 - I'd estimate over half of the passengers from Grampian/Tayside deliberately choose 'the London train' irrespective of their actual destination simply because they know exactly what they'll get, and what time it goes at. Opt for a Scotrail service and (in passengers minds) they've no idea what'll turn up or when.

 

[Bald Rick]

See @Wynd's post #178 - I'd estimate over half of the passengers from Grampian/Tayside deliberately choose 'the London train' irrespective of their actual destination simply because they know exactly what they'll get, and what time it goes at. Opt for a Scotrail service and (in passengers minds) they've no idea what'll turn up or when.

I don’t have figures to hand (and they will be hard to come by), but I would be astonished if half of passengers on that stretch deliberately choose the LNER service, let alone do so because of the type of train.

 

[Falcon1200]

I'd estimate over half of the passengers from Grampian/Tayside deliberately choose 'the London train' irrespective of their actual destination simply because they know exactly what they'll get, and what time it goes at.

Not if they want to go from Aberdeen or Dundee to Perth, Glasgow or Stirling, and not if they want to go from say Aberdeen to Edinburgh between 0952 and 1452, for example.
And if they did, the Scotrail services would be empty, which is certainly not my experience.

 

[ajrm]

Same

They used to until, I reckon about 4/5 years ago when they sped up the expresses, and also put on the local stopping services.
Non-stop from mostly from Leuchars, (sometimes Dundee or Cupar) to Haymarket is one good thing that came about in the Abellio franchise, and there seems to be slack in some schedules as it's often a slow run in from Dalmeny to Haymarket.

Surely this long predates Abellio taking over? The timetable shake-up followed the re-opening of the Alloa line in 2008 which took coal trains off the Forth Bridge and freed up more paths there.

 

[Wynd]

I don’t have figures to hand (and they will be hard to come by), but I would be astonished if half of passengers on that stretch deliberately choose the LNER service, let alone do so because of the type of train.

But BR, even if it's not half, you are still making the argument that I and others can categorically assure you is the case. Passengers do wait for the London train and avoid Scotrail. This is having an impact on SR's revenue.

Further, this is documented in Transports Scotland/NESTRAN's work that led to the introduction of HST's, which is contrary to the argument saying "people dont care what machine they are on" when the evidence suggests that they do.

 

[Jordan1296]

I don’t have figures to hand (and they will be hard to come by), but I would be astonished if half of passengers on that stretch deliberately choose the LNER service, let alone do so because of the type of train.

Have to confess that choose LNER over ScotRail when I travel to/from Edinburgh not because of the type of train, but because of the price. Far more affordable.

 

[Bald Rick]

But BR, even if it's not half, you are still making the argument that I and others can categorically assure you is the case. Passengers do wait for the London train and avoid Scotrail.

Im not saying it doesnt happen, just that I don’t believe that half of passengers deliberately choose their trains dependent on rolling stock.

and the broader point still stands - someone choosing LNER over Scotrail means the latter may be losing revenue, but the railway is not. Therefore Scotrail spending money to get money back off LNER makes the industry worse off, which is the precise opposite of what is needed.

 

[PG]

Scotrail spending money to get money back off LNER makes the industry worse off, which is the precise opposite of what is needed.

Completely agree. Let's hope that the Scottish government see it that way too. Dare we hope for an end to ORCATS raids for example...

 

[Sirius]

It seems that ScotRail has forgotten that the name of the main station in the capital is Edinburgh Waverley. They seem to have dropped the Waverley part in all automated announcements both on trains and in station PAs, as well as on the departure boards. Very odd.

Has been announced as such at stations Helensburgh/Milngavie - Edinburgh (west of Haymarket) since the Airdrie - Bathgate line reopened.

Separate from the quoted post, but on revenue vs subsidy that conversation should be resigned to decades past with a recognition that railways deliver a public good. Pigs might fly before that though...

 

[AY1975]

I see from the BBC news website that First Minister Nicola Sturgeon unveiled a plaque on a Class 385 EMU at Glasgow Queen Street on 1st April to mark the transition into public ownership. Does anyone know which 385 it was?

ScotRail goes back into public ownership

An arms-length Scottish government company takes over running the rail franchise from Abellio.

www.bbc.co.uk

"ScotRail goes back into public ownership

ScotRail is back in public ownership for the first time in 25 years.
The train operator will now be run by a company owned by the Scottish government.
The previous operator, Abellio, had its franchise ended early amid criticism of the quality of the service.
The UK's rail network was privatised in the 90s by John Major's Conservative government. Before Abellio, ScotRail was run by National Express and First Group."

 

[Davester50]

Surely this long predates Abellio taking over? The timetable shake-up followed the re-opening of the Alloa line in 2008 which took coal trains off the Forth Bridge and freed up more paths there.

Don't think so.

 

[320320]

It seems that ScotRail has forgotten that the name of the main station in the capital is Edinburgh Waverley. They seem to have dropped the Waverley part in all automated announcements both on trains and in station PAs, as well as on the departure boards. Very odd.

334s announce as Edinburgh Waverley.

 

[alangla]

Completely agree. Let's hope that the Scottish government see it that way too. Dare we hope for an end to ORCATS raids for example...

Watch for LNER and XC paths north/west of Edinburgh evaporating…

334s announce as Edinburgh Waverley.

Ironically, showing Edinburgh on the front would probably be better as it could probably be shown without scrolling. Same with “Helensburgh” rather than “Helensburgh Central” when going the other way

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Completely agree. Let's hope that the Scottish government see it that way too. Dare we hope for an end to ORCATS raids for example...

If people are buying interavailable tickets, it doesn't matter which operator's train you use, the carve up of revenue will be the same.
Scotrail trains may be emptier, but they still get their revenue cut.
It will be different with Advances and operator specific fares.

 

[Davester50]

It seems that ScotRail has forgotten that the name of the main station in the capital is Edinburgh Waverley. They seem to have dropped the Waverley part in all automated announcements both on trains and in station PAs, as well as on the departure boards. Very odd.

Wouldn't be a problem if there was only one station called Edinburgh, but there's Waverley and Park.
Unlikely to cause confusion for regulars, but for others, when Park is a convenient Train/Tram interchange a bit daft.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

I can sort of see where the idea for this policy comes from, they don't want large numbers of people with crates of cheap lager or strong cider disrupting the atmosphere for other passengers and potentially putting staff at risk, I would agree with that and would also agree with certain services being designated as dry. Where are my support for this stops and where this idea completely falls foul of basic human rights and and enjoyment for passengers is is that someone like myself who might have wanted to go by train from say, Inverness to Edinburgh and would maybe have chosen to do so show on an evening service with a couple of quiet drams to relieve the boredom and compensate for The horror of riding in a 170 will now take the faster coach and drink at home or pop into a pub on their way back from the bus station. So floating passengers and I'm sure there are many of us waiting in the woodwork just to come out and hit their are numbers for usage will pick the option that now works best for them as the train has no advantage anymore

Issue with the human rights argument is that you putting the right of the individual to consume booze over the right of the rest to enjoy a safe quite train journey. There's also the issue around accidents as I can imagine dealing with drunks in an accident would be a night especially a serious accident as the drink impairs there cognitive function and also thins the blood so they bleed like a bigger

 

[Davester50]

Issue with the human rights argument is that you putting the right of the individual to consume booze over the right of the rest to enjoy a safe quite train journey.

Consuming booze doesn't necessarily mean an unsafe noisy journey.
And the fact the other operation they control positivity encourages it (Hello Cally Sleeper!), it's a bit hypocritical.

What needs curbed is antisocial behaviour. Plenty sober eejits cause bother.