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Reports on effectiveness (or not!) and impacts of lockdown and other measures

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yorksrob

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Audiable and visible shock from the audience on question time last night when an audience member suggests that the problem is not with partygate, but the laws themselves.

Even with the various studies referred to in this thread, there is a long way to go before many in the public even consider that the lockdowns imposed might have been inappropriate.

Excellent that someone has made the point though.
 

takno

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Audiable and visible shock from the audience on question time last night when an audience member suggests that the problem is not with partygate, but the laws themselves.

Even with the various studies referred to in this thread, there is a long way to go before many in the public even consider that the lockdowns imposed might have been inappropriate.
I absolutely agree with the sentiment. Lockdowns, particularly the 2nd and 3rd lockdowns which were when most of Partygate happened, were a pretty terrible ineffectual and damaging policy which was allowed to drag on for a really stupid length of time.

To be fair to the audience, they got behind him fairly quickly after the initial shock. A lot of people have come round to the idea that a lot of what we did was stupid, but we're very much still in a phase of testing the boundaries of what can be said before somebody starts screaming themselves blue about supporting the NHS.

On a side note, that doesn't make Partygate any less bad. It's terrible that we were saddled with the awful laws, but if the people creating the laws are allowed to ignore them themselves then we've created an environment where awful laws are the norm. If you think the laws were necessary then Partygate has to lead to resignations because the activity was unconscionable. If you think the laws were stupid then it still has to lead to resignations, because if laws are too stupid for the lawmakers, then they should also be too stupid for the rest of us.
 

Jimini

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Audiable and visible shock from the audience on question time last night when an audience member suggests that the problem is not with partygate, but the laws themselves.

Even with the various studies referred to in this thread, there is a long way to go before many in the public even consider that the lockdowns imposed might have been inappropriate.

Lovely stuff. Thanks for sharing. Couldn't agree more!
 

greyman42

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If you think the laws were stupid then it still has to lead to resignations, because if laws are too stupid for the lawmakers, then they should also be too stupid for the rest of us.
The laws were stupid but for some reason some people followed them blindly and without question.
 

43301

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To be fair to the audience, they got behind him fairly quickly after the initial shock. A lot of people have come round to the idea that a lot of what we did was stupid, but we're very much still in a phase of testing the boundaries of what can be said before somebody starts screaming themselves blue about supporting the NHS.

I wonder whether there's going to be a backlash against the NHS-worship. They really aren't helping themselves at all now - the GP practice I am registered with continues to be aloof, difficult to contact, and unable to give answers to straightforward questions (the person who deals with that isn't in today...). Then there's the specialist services, where they send a link to a URL and the site has a massive officious banner across it about 'Zoom consultations', and any in-person appointments requiring 'social distancing' and 'you must wear a mask' (no mention of exemptions). How many people just think 'forget it' unless it's something really serious?
 

raspberrypeel

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It was pointed out by a Sunday Times columnist a few weeks ago, that the NHS is to all intents and purposes a quasi-religion.

For starters, the language used (doctors are heroes, nurses are angels) as well as rules around apostasy and blasphemy. The subtle animosity and judgement of anyone who uses private healthcare providers is becoming clear to me.

The 'clap for our heroes' had every hallmark of a religious ritual. I refused to participate, even at the most fervent NHS love-in at the start of lockdown.
 

Jimini

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Audiable and visible shock from the audience on question time last night when an audience member suggests that the problem is not with partygate, but the laws themselves.

Even with the various studies referred to in this thread, there is a long way to go before many in the public even consider that the lockdowns imposed might have been inappropriate.

OK I've watched this episode now. The whole tone of the show was pathetic, yet this chap really hit the mark with his question. Bruce's riposte? Ignore the question, talk about where next week's show is being filmed (complete with details of how you can join should you so wish), and then straight on to another unconnected question.

I also noted that the camera landed specifically on him several times before he asked the question (most of us wanted answering). Something quite odd going on editorially from what I saw.
 

duncanp

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Audiable and visible shock from the audience on question time last night when an audience member suggests that the problem is not with partygate, but the laws themselves.

Even with the various studies referred to in this thread, there is a long way to go before many in the public even consider that the lockdowns imposed might have been inappropriate.

I have shared that tweet on Facebook, as his point needs to put across more widely.
 

yorkie

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Lovely stuff. Thanks for sharing. Couldn't agree more!
I also completely agree.
It was pointed out by a Sunday Times columnist a few weeks ago, that the NHS is to all intents and purposes a quasi-religion....
I've lost faith in the NHS to provide adequate treatment or even diagnosis for my injury and am no longer proud to say I worked for the NHS.

Although I learnt a lot in the year I worked there and met some very nice people, and am grateful to those people, the organisation itself is not one I would ever work for again, at least not in its current guise and not with the nonsense some of its prominent members spout.

OK I've watched this episode now. The whole tone of the show was pathetic, yet this chap really hit the mark with his question. Bruce's riposte? Ignore the question, talk about where next week's show is being filmed (complete with details of how you can join should you so wish), and then straight on to another unconnected question.
I think some people working in the media industry in general don't want to be seen to go against the 'approved' narrative that lockdowns and authoritarianism were (or even still are!) necessary.

People who look at the bigger picture can be seen by some as providing misinformation when it is actually those who deny the onset of endemic equilibrium and the power of our immune systems who are the ones really spreading disinformation.

I think many people are becoming wise to the reality now.
 
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Bantamzen

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On a side note, that doesn't make Partygate any less bad. It's terrible that we were saddled with the awful laws, but if the people creating the laws are allowed to ignore them themselves then we've created an environment where awful laws are the norm. If you think the laws were necessary then Partygate has to lead to resignations because the activity was unconscionable. If you think the laws were stupid then it still has to lead to resignations, because if laws are too stupid for the lawmakers, then they should also be too stupid for the rest of us.
OK, controversial view coming up. I was actually glad when news broke about it, because it showed just how much of an ass the laws were. The fact that the political elite were not even trying to abide by them showed enough people that it was all just for show.

It was pointed out by a Sunday Times columnist a few weeks ago, that the NHS is to all intents and purposes a quasi-religion.

For starters, the language used (doctors are heroes, nurses are angels) as well as rules around apostasy and blasphemy. The subtle animosity and judgement of anyone who uses private healthcare providers is becoming clear to me.

The 'clap for our heroes' had every hallmark of a religious ritual. I refused to participate, even at the most fervent NHS love-in at the start of lockdown.
Like you, I refused to go along with it. Some of my neighbours, pot banging neighbours to boot have never really forgiven me for it. "Why didn't you take part?" they asked, "Because its utter <expletive> designed to make the proles feel like they are doing something" I replied. Ever since they just glare at me when they see me, I just laugh.
 

Eyersey468

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OK, controversial view coming up. I was actually glad when news broke about it, because it showed just how much of an ass the laws were. The fact that the political elite were not even trying to abide by them showed enough people that it was all just for show.


Like you, I refused to go along with it. Some of my neighbours, pot banging neighbours to boot have never really forgiven me for it. "Why didn't you take part?" they asked, "Because its utter <expletive> designed to make the proles feel like they are doing something" I replied. Ever since they just glare at me when they see me, I just laugh.
I didn't go along with the pot banging either. Agree it shows just how nonsensical the laws were if those who made them didn't even try to stick by them themselves
 

yorksrob

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I think most people were relieved when the pot banging ended. I'd almost forgotten about it !
 

island

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I think some people working in the media industry in general don't want to be seen to go against the 'approved' narrative that lockdowns and authoritarianism were (or even still are!) necessary.
Or are afraid of being slapped down by Ofcom.
I think most people were relieved when the pot banging ended. I'd almost forgotten about it !
I never participated; it was intensely annoying and I don't generally subscribe to the NHS worship that this country seems fond of.
 

yorkie

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Or are afraid of being slapped down by Ofcom.
Yes quite possibly.
I never participated; it was intensely annoying and I don't generally subscribe to the NHS worship that this country seems fond of.
Ironically the banging of pots is now seen as a protest symbol against lockdowns and other authoritarian restrictions and is being used extensively in China right now.
 

Eyersey468

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Yes quite possibly.

Ironically the banging of pots is now seen as a protest symbol against lockdowns and other authoritarian restrictions and is being used extensively in China right now.
There is one hell of an irony there
 

Cdd89

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This news story is on the front page of the BBC News web site:

Alex Lowndes refused to close his Gainz Fitness & Strength in Bedford in November 2020, when restrictions were imposed in England.

Bedford Borough Council's case collapsed but the authority said it had acted in the public interest.

A lawyer told the BBC she had successfully defended 23 similar cases.

Infection rates and hospital admission were rising in the area but Mr Lowndes said he felt strongly that gyms should remain open.

"It became clear it was an airborne disease, you're more prone to it if you're unhealthy, overweight, etc, and gyms contributed a very small amount to the spread of the virus," he said.

"From a mental health point of view, gyms are really important, people depend on them, and I think people underestimate that.

The authority requested an adjournment, which was rejected by magistrates.

Bedford Borough Council said regulations were enforced in line with its duty at the time.

"We brought this case because there was ample evidence for a successful prosecution following the non-payment of a fixed penalty notice and because it was in the public interest," said a council spokesman.

"It is important that we remember that the threat posed by the virus then was very different to that which we face now."

'Unfortunately' the only reason it was dropped was because of the incompetence of the council in failing to gather enough evidence, so it is a bit of a non-story.

However, I fully agree with the defendant that the closing of indoor exercise facilities during winter was a travesty given the mental and physical health implications of lack of exercise; especially as supermarkets remained open and people spent the lockdown browsing the alcohol and junk food aisles.
 

nw1

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I wonder whether there's going to be a backlash against the NHS-worship. They really aren't helping themselves at all now - the GP practice I am registered with continues to be aloof, difficult to contact, and unable to give answers to straightforward questions (the person who deals with that isn't in today...). Then there's the specialist services, where they send a link to a URL and the site has a massive officious banner across it about 'Zoom consultations', and any in-person appointments requiring 'social distancing' and 'you must wear a mask' (no mention of exemptions). How many people just think 'forget it' unless it's something really serious?

Do they actually understand that there are other illnesses besides Covid?

Time to return to how things were in 2019 or before. In 2022, presumed over-concern about Covid and the disgraceful attitude of some surgeries is, I'm sure, taking more lives than if the over-concern was not there. Is there really a valid reason not just to return doctors' surgeries back to how they operated in 2019? If so, I'd like to know it.
 
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bleeder4

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I've got a couple of NHS workers in my block of flats and they both hated the weekly clapping, were glad to see the back of it. It put undue pressure on them, made them out to be some sort of superheros here to save the country. During their shifts it would put a massive weight on their shoulders, and patients would view them as mystical beings, rather than just normal people trying to do a job. It was a lot of responsibility to have lumped on you. They spent all day being paranoid about doing something wrong.
 

brad465

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Audiable and visible shock from the audience on question time last night when an audience member suggests that the problem is not with partygate, but the laws themselves.

Even with the various studies referred to in this thread, there is a long way to go before many in the public even consider that the lockdowns imposed might have been inappropriate.
There are two things I can see causing a major shift: firstly China finally abandoning its zero-covid approach and that being well publicised, secondly, a future pandemic comes along within our lifetimes that causes us all to suddenly remember the experiences of covid lockdowns, in particular how challenging they were to endure. Lockdown 1 was a novelty experience in some ways, but by lockdown 3 many more people were dreading the experience, hopefully the latter is what people will remember.

OK, controversial view coming up. I was actually glad when news broke about it, because it showed just how much of an ass the laws were. The fact that the political elite were not even trying to abide by them showed enough people that it was all just for show.
I agree, and would add at least it united pro and anti-lockdown people in condemnation of the incidents, even if for different reasons. The only ones not critical of partygate were Johnson a**e-lickers.
 

greyman42

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There are two things I can see causing a major shift: firstly China finally abandoning its zero-covid approach and that being well publicised, secondly, a future pandemic comes along within our lifetimes that causes us all to suddenly remember the experiences of covid lockdowns, in particular how challenging they were to endure. Lockdown 1 was a novelty experience in some ways, but by lockdown 3 many more people were dreading the experience, hopefully the latter is what people will remember.


I agree, and would add at least it united pro and anti-lockdown people in condemnation of the incidents, even if for different reasons. The only ones not critical of partygate were Johnson a**e-lickers.
I was not critical of Johnson and partygate because i was at it myself, as were many others if they were honest.
 

Eyersey468

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I don't think that makes any difference. That is just looking for excuses. I have no regrets about what i did.
I don't blame you, personally I couldn't care less if the public followed the rules or not, however it is very poor if the politicians can't even try to follow their own rules themselves and to me says that 1) they did not believe the rules were necessary and 2) they don't believe rules should apply to them.
 

yorkie

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I don't blame you, personally I couldn't care less if the public followed the rules or not, however it is very poor if the politicians can't even try to follow their own rules themselves and to me says that 1) they did not believe the rules were necessary and 2) they don't believe rules should apply to them.
I agree.

The concern I have though is that the media tries to portray the biggest issue as the fact that they did these things, when by far the biggest issues are that these things were ever banned in the first place, and the irony of the people who banned these things themselves.

I think many ordinary people would now agree that the rules were bonkers but the media (in general) appears to portray it as if the rules were correct and it was merely the breaking of the rules that was what they did wrong.

Excellent that someone has made the point though.
Indeed.
 

Eyersey468

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I agree.

The concern I have though is that the media tries to portray the biggest issue as the fact that they did these things, when by far the biggest issues are that these things were ever banned in the first place, and the irony of the people who banned these things themselves.

I think many ordinary people would now agree that the rules were bonkers but the media (in general) appears to portray it as if the rules were correct and it was merely the breaking of the rules that was what they did wrong.


Indeed.
That is what I expect from the media to be honest, I didn't trust the media to start with and the last 2 years have caused my deep mistrust to get even deeper
 

brad465

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We can vote out or overthrow a Government, we cannot with the media.
Not directly, but we can try and shine a light on their behaviour more, such as with mass protests outside their offices and trying to blockade them. Yes plenty will condemn threats to free press, but the media at large have abused their right over all this so frankly deserve it. The problem we have is not enough currently realise they are the main issue to divert their protests at them.
 

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I think most people were relieved when the pot banging ended. I'd almost forgotten about it !
I didn't mind the Clap for the NHS thing at first, as I live alone me and the neighbours standing outside for a bit beforehand was about the only regular non-internet/phone interaction I was having with people outside work, it just got to the "who can make the loudest noise with household objects" stage too quickly (regular offenders round here were: pots & pans, fireworks, and a horn of some sort):rolleyes:
 

DustyBin

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I didn't mind the Clap for the NHS thing at first, as I live alone me and the neighbours standing outside for a bit beforehand was about the only regular non-internet/phone interaction I was having with people outside work, it just got to the "who can make the loudest noise with household objects" stage too quickly (regular offenders round here were: pots & pans, fireworks, and a horn of some sort):rolleyes:

I’ve got be honest, the whole thing got on my nerves and we didn’t do it once. I do find the fact it got competitive mildly amusing though!
 
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