Reports on effectiveness (or not!) and impacts of lockdown and other measures

[nedchester]

I’ve got be honest, the whole thing got on my nerves and we didn’t do it once. I do find the fact it got competitive mildly amusing though!

Pointless virtue signalling promoted by the same people who’d spent years cutting essential services in the public sector.

 

[yorksrob]

I didn't mind the Clap for the NHS thing at first, as I live alone me and the neighbours standing outside for a bit beforehand was about the only regular non-internet/phone interaction I was having with people outside work, it just got to the "who can make the loudest noise with household objects" stage too quickly (regular offenders round here were: pots & pans, fireworks, and a horn of some sort)

The BBC sitcom "Here we Go" included a good re-enactment of the pot banging in its pilot episode, which captured the faintly awkward vibe rather well

On the plus side, I've found a new use for my face covering as a washable mat to stop my beer sliding around on train tables

 

[Eyersey468]

I’ve got be honest, the whole thing got on my nerves and we didn’t do it once. I do find the fact it got competitive mildly amusing though!

It got on my nerves as well. One thing I found especially annoying as a key worker myself was it was all about the NHS, key workers that worked in other industries got no recognition at all.

Pointless virtue signalling promoted by the same people who’d spent years cutting essential services in the public sector.

Agreed

 

[kristiang85]

I read comments from people saying they timed their evening run so it felt like the clapping was for them as they came down the street

 

[brad465]

I read comments from people saying they timed their evening run so it felt like the clapping was for them as they came down the street

This happened to me on one of my evening cycle rides passing through a village at 8pm, and as I had just gone up a hill and was only 5-6 miles from home it had a Tour de France like feel to it

 

[Tracked]

On the plus side, I've found a new use for my face covering as a washable mat to stop my beer sliding around on train tables

Good plan, I've rarely taken beer on the train since Covid, but I might keep a mask in my bag just in case I used mine as an extra scarf to keep my mouth warm last winter, instead of faffing about with my proper scarf. Just wondering if this needs a "101 Uses for an Old Facemask" thread, if we haven't got one already

 

[VauxhallandI]

Khan‘s TfL still bombarding us with covid waffle yet he himself doesn’t show the PM or Royalty the “respect” he drones on about

Check out his hypocrisy in the photo

Elizabeth line: Queen makes surprise visit to Paddington Station

Buckingham Palace says the visit, ahead of the line's opening on 24 May, is a "happy development".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[DustyBin]

Khan‘s TfL still bombarding us with covid waffle yet he himself doesn’t show the PM or Royalty the “respect” he drones on about

Check out his hypocrisy in the photo

Elizabeth line: Queen makes surprise visit to Paddington Station

Buckingham Palace says the visit, ahead of the line's opening on 24 May, is a "happy development".

www.bbc.co.uk

I'd expect nothing better to be honest!

 

[Mojo]

Khan‘s TfL still bombarding us with covid waffle yet he himself doesn’t show the PM or Royalty the “respect” he drones on about

Check out his hypocrisy in the photo

Elizabeth line: Queen makes surprise visit to Paddington Station

Buckingham Palace says the visit, ahead of the line's opening on 24 May, is a "happy development".

www.bbc.co.uk

And yet yesterday he was wearing a muzzle when he was on the train to open Bank station’s new Southbound platform, yet took it off when on the platform.

Rather like most Maskivists seems they make it up as they go along ...

 

[Howardh]

The difference is you did not make the rules, they did.

Let's be kind and say the rules were confusing so those that made them were incompetent - the evidence is the fines against those making the rules!

Therefore all lockdown fines should be quashed, at least L2 & 3. I'm actually surprised the public put up with the second and third lockdowns, especially the tier farces, and the fact that it went on and on with no clear endpoint.

Even so, on social media when May finally arrived, some were calling it "Freedumb Day" - presumably those enjoying lockdown and hating the prospect of people having fun?!

Did anyone here come across those?

 

[Eyersey468]

Let's be kind and say the rules were confusing so those that made them were incompetent - the evidence is the fines against those making the rules!

Therefore all lockdown fines should be quashed, at least L2 & 3. I'm actually surprised the public put up with the second and third lockdowns, especially the tier farces, and the fact that it went on and on with no clear endpoint.

Even so, on social media when May finally arrived, some were calling it "Freedumb Day" - presumably those enjoying lockdown and hating the prospect of people having fun?!

Did anyone here come across those?

I certainly did at work, there was a guy came out with something to the effect of it should be a total lockdown with nobody able to work, it caused me to blow a fuse at him, he hadn't considered the fact there would be no water, no gas, electric, bin collections, fire, police, ambulance, no staff in the hospitals etc etc.

I agree Boris and his cronies are incompetent, though I still feel it is very poor that they couldn't even try to follow their own rules

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Let's be kind and say the rules were confusing so those that made them were incompetent - the evidence is the fines against those making the rules!

Therefore all lockdown fines should be quashed, at least L2 & 3. I'm actually surprised the public put up with the second and third lockdowns, especially the tier farces, and the fact that it went on and on with no clear endpoint.

Even so, on social media when May finally arrived, some were calling it "Freedumb Day" - presumably those enjoying lockdown and hating the prospect of people having fun?!

Did anyone here come across those?

I remember some of the zero covid fanatics calling it "genocide day".

In fact zerocovidzoe has resurfaced and called for a 3/4 month hard lockdown because of monkeypox.

 

[Eyersey468]

I remember some of the zero covid fanatics calling it "genocide day".

In fact zerocovidzoe has resurfaced and called for a 3/4 month hard lockdown because of monkeypox.

If she wants a lockdown let her have her own personal one by all means but we can't keep going into lockdown every time something threatening comes along. I see her vote she has is variations of yes with no option for no.

 

[Bantamzen]

I remember some of the zero covid fanatics calling it "genocide day".

In fact zerocovidzoe has resurfaced and called for a 3/4 month hard lockdown because of monkeypox.

Dammit, I'm blocked from that account. I was looking forward to a good heckle..

 

[Howardh]

If she wants a lockdown let her have her own personal one by all means but we can't keep going into lockdown every time something threatening comes along. I see her vote she has is variations of yes with no option for no.

It's the basic answer to those wanting..or still want lockdown "to keep themselves safe". Well, the easiest solution is personal lockdown, as they won't be venturing out into the wild anyway, so no need to force lockdown on anyone else.

 

[Eyersey468]

I wonder how quickly zerocovidzoe would change her tune if they said OK we will have a lockdown BUT there is no furlough, no support for businesses etc so once the money runs out that's it.

 

[kristiang85]

I still can't work out if Zerocovidzoe is a troll or not. But the fact she blocks people who don't agree with her COVID stance means it probably is a real person with that opinion. Which does make me worry for her mental health...

 

[takno]

I still can't work out if Zerocovidzoe is a troll or not. But the fact she blocks people who don't agree with her COVID stance means it probably is a real person with that opinion. Which does make me worry for her mental health...

I mean it's got to be a troll surely? Not least because literally nobody who's even remotely in touch with reality is suggesting that's an appropriate response to monkey fever

 

[Eyersey468]

I mean it's got to be a troll surely? Not least because literally nobody who's even remotely in touch with reality is suggesting that's an appropriate response to monkey fever

I've no idea if it's a troll or not but they clearly aren't in touch with reality

 

[kristiang85]

From Australia:

Lockdowns did more harm than good | The Spectator Australia

Third World v. First World: what’s the difference? In a nutshell, the way they make public policy. For the most part, policy in First World nations is not ideological, but process-oriented.

spectator.com.au

The main points being:

Its highlights are:

1. The government has lied about the magnitude of the Covid pandemic, which is 50-500 times less lethal than the Spanish flu. Once we consider the fact that Covid kills mainly the elderly, its effective lethality is even less.
2. Lockdowns have prevented a maximum of around 10,000 Covid deaths during 2020-21 in Australia, not the 40,000 lives Mr Morrison claims to have saved.
3. There were at least 7,940 additional non-Covid deaths from lockdowns in the first two years of the pandemic (in fact, there were more: ABS data shows over 3,000 excess cancer deaths just in 2021 of people so terrorised by the lockdowns and hysteria in 2020 that they did not get their cancer identified and treated in time).
4. Every policy-driven harm that reduces our lifespan or earning power, every harm to our children, and every harm through reduced capacity of the government to buy wellbeing is added up in the CBA. Gigi Foster estimates that the harms from lockdowns exceed any benefits by at least thirty-six times.

 

[Eyersey468]

From Australia:

Lockdowns did more harm than good | The Spectator Australia

Third World v. First World: what’s the difference? In a nutshell, the way they make public policy. For the most part, policy in First World nations is not ideological, but process-oriented.

spectator.com.au

The main points being:

The locktivists will never admit they got it wrong though

 

[brad465]

I was quite thankful to have passed my driving test in September 2019, as I avoided this lockdown-induced inevitability:

Driving test backlog sees exams sold for over £200

Tests are being resold on a secondary market as learners face months-long waits for an exam.

www.bbc.co.uk

Driving tests are being bulk booked and resold for profit, as a chronic backlog means learners are otherwise waiting months for a test date.
Learner drivers say they have paid more than £200 for a practical test - more than twice the standard fee.
One operator said it used automated software to book tests, and the BBC has seen evidence encouraging driving instructors to sell tests for profit.
The DVSA urged applicants to only book tests via its official website.
The demand for driving tests, caused by the pandemic, means in many places - including London, Birmingham and Cardiff - tests aren't available to book online for up to six months. At other centres, the earliest availability is September or October.
It has seen many learners turn towards a secondary market. Some are paying a nominal fee to companies which find them cancelled tests. Others are buying from sellers which offer tests for vastly inflated prices.

'A cancellation'​

Amelia, not her real name, told the BBC she had paid £210 for a cancelled test through her instructor in London.
The standard fee is £62 for a weekday test and £75 for one in an evening, at the weekend or over a bank holiday, if booked through the Driving Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA). The DVSA is the official body that carries out driving tests in Great Britain.
"It was very on-the-go," 23-year-old Amelia said. "My driving instructor would call me and say, 'quick, there's a cancellation, do you want it?' The day we booked my test it all happened within a three or four-minute phone call."
She said she'd had to reply with a picture of her provisional licence number, after which she received a reference number allowing her to change the test booking with her own details.
Another driver said her instructor had paid £235 for her test. A third paid £186 - although £54 of this was for the car hire and £62 for the standard test fee.

The BBC has looked into how this is possible. One operator claimed to be using "AI-powered software" to scoop up vacant test slots as soon as they became available on the DVSA website.
They said they used software that constantly refreshes the agency's booking website, together with VPNs, or virtual private networks, to hide their computer's identity, meaning it avoided being banned.
They sent an email - seen by the BBC - to driving instructors, encouraging them to use their service to profit from pupils.

When we contacted them, they said: "This software… [is] like if you're pressing on the search button. It just automates your press, or clicks, on the button."
We also found multiple posts on Facebook Marketplace and within some Facebook groups, offering a variety of test times for sale.
Behind such posts are people like Alex, who runs a "short-notice driving exam business". He posted an advert on Facebook claiming he "can guarantee exam bookings within three weeks".
The advert said approved driving instructors who work with him "make upwards of £400-£600 a week" by reselling exams to pupils.
When contacted, Alex would not reveal how his business booked tests. But the BBC found one way of booking a slot and then transferring it - or potentially selling it - to someone else.

 

[kristiang85]

Another eviceration of lockdowns:

An analysis of studies of the effects of lockdowns on COVID-19 mortality has just been released by a team of researchers at Johns Hopkins University, and their conclusion is depressing.

“Our study finds that lockdowns had little to no effect in reducing COVID-19 mortality,” they wrote. “However, lockdowns during the initial phase of the COVID-19 pandemic have had devastating effects.”

One of the papers reviewed by the Johns Hopkins researchers, “COVID-19 Pandemic: A Review of the Global Lockdown and Its Far-Reaching Effects,” published in the journal, “Science Progress,” concluded that “the impact of the lockdown has had far-reaching effects in different strata of life, including; changes in the accessibility and structure of education delivery to students, food insecurity as a result of unavailability and fluctuation in prices, the depression of the global economy, increase in mental health challenges, wellbeing and quality of life amongst others.”

Other studies reviewed by the researchers found that lockdowns had contributed to political unrest, domestic violence, and the undermining of liberal democracy.

Particularly depressing is a 2021 study cited by the researchers titled, “Learning Loss Due to School Closures During the COVID-19 Pandemic,” published in the journal, “Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.” It found that “children, on average, learn almost nothing in the weeks they received virtual education,” with the effect “particularly pronounced in less educated homes, where the negative effects for children with low-educated parents were 60 percent greater than those from well-educated homes.”

The researchers found similar conclusions in numerous other studies. “The losses in early development are significantly greater among poor and poorly educated families,” they reported.

Published in May, “A Literature Review and Meta-Analysis of the Effects of Lockdowns on COVID-19 Mortality” follows a working paper of the same title published in January and answers its critics, among them Neil Ferguson of Imperial College London. If his name is familiar, it’s because his influential but wildly incorrect computer modeling projections of coronavirus disease and death in the spring of 2020 set off an international panic in government offices, and lockdowns.

Ferguson’s model simulation at Imperial College predicted that a “suppression” (lockdown) strategy would reduce COVID-19 mortality up to 99%. It didn’t work out that way.

The Johns Hopkins researchers, who are economists, began by searching and screening over 19,000 studies, seeking all available empirical evidence to determine the effect of lockdowns on COVID-19 mortality. For perspective, they found that more people are killed by the flu every year than were saved by lockdowns.

Far from a 99% reduction, the researchers found that COVID-19 mortality was reduced by 3.2% by the average lockdown in Europe and the U.S. in the spring of 2020, 2.0% by shelter-in-place orders and 10.8% by specific non-pharmaceutical interventions such as school and workplace closures, travel restrictions and border closures.

The Johns Hopkins team said their findings were “consistent with the view that voluntary changes in behavior” were helpful in mitigating the pandemic,” and they called for more research “to determine how voluntary behavioral changes can be supported.” But without evidence that lockdowns have “large and significant reductions in mortality,” they wrote, “lockdowns should be rejected out of hand as a pandemic policy instrument.”

With public health officials in California again warning that restrictions may be reimposed, we should pay close attention to the costs, and especially to who is paying them.

And to think of all those who villified those of us for speaking out against lockdowns (including on this forum) - so many of these negative effects were predictable right from the start.

 

[Eyersey468]

Another eviceration of lockdowns:



And to think of all those who villified those of us for speaking out against lockdowns (including on this forum) - so many of these negative effects were predictable right from the start.

Exactly, I bet those who vilified us will not admit they were wrong though

 

[DustyBin]

Another eviceration of lockdowns:



And to think of all those who villified those of us for speaking out against lockdowns (including on this forum) - so many of these negative effects were predictable right from the start.

Absolutely. As @Eyersey468 has said though, I don’t think many restriction addicts will admit to being wrong.

 

[MikeWM]

It is very interesting now to see that all the things that *felt* wrong, had been ruled out by previous pandemic planning, and were incompatible with a free society - lockdowns, school closures, mandatory masks, vaccine passports - turn out to have not only been useless, but (at least in some cases) are now proven to have actually caused harm.

I've argued all along that they were *wrong*, even if it tuirned they had some effect on the spread or severity of a pandemic of a respiratory virus. However, the fact that they are now shown to have been useless at that, while being harmful in other ways, makes them even more important to oppose in future.

Some places are still clinging to this superstitious nonsense. Some 'blue' counties of the US are going back to mandatory masks, the Biden admin is appealing against the ruling removing the transport mask mandate, the CDC is advising mask-wearing to avoid catching monkeypox (!), Germany is talking about measures coming back in the autumn...

Hopefully the UK is past all of this and we won't see any more of it. But, unfortunately, everywhere on the planet isn't so fortunate, and we still need to keep showing that all this stuff was plain wrong.

 

[DustyBin]

BBC economic correspondent Andrew Verity has just claimed that "we're only now finding out what happens when you shut down* entire industries for two years".... Really? Is the current economic turmoil not something else that was entirely predictable, and indeed predicted by many of us on here? Yes there's the war in Ukraine but that's only compounding the problem.

*Heavily disrupt may be more accurate, but the point stands regardless.

 

[greyman42]

Hopefully the UK is past all of this and we won't see any more of it.

Providing we keep Labour out of power, I am sure we won't.

 

[kristiang85]

BBC economic correspondent Andrew Verity has just claimed that "we're only now finding out what happens when you shut down* entire industries for two years".... Really? Is the current economic turmoil not something else that was entirely predictable, and indeed predicted by many of us on here? Yes there's the war in Ukraine but that's only compounding the problem.

*Heavily disrupt may be more accurate, but the point stands regardless.

The war in Ukraine is becoming a very convenient excuse for Western governments to use to blame the situation, rather than their own gross mishandling of the pandemic response. Yes the war is disruptive, but all the problems were there in the first place - namely the supply chain issues and rampant inflation caused by excessive borrowing to pay half the working citizens to do nothing.

 

[brad465]

Providing we keep Labour out of power, I am sure we won't.

Depends, if they were in power and introducing such restrictions, I think large sections of the media opposed to the party generally would be throwing outrage and/or doing whatever it takes to stop certain restrictions coming in, so actually they don't happen.

Right now Partygate has increased Labour's chances of getting into power and the Tories are not helping themselves by keeping Johnson in place. Get rid of him and bring someone in completely untainted by the scandal, while also not being pro-restriction and you may get a different story.