Vegan Cake

[Deerfold]

Tofu and Quorn both are imported and require more land to be cultivated, compared to say UK meat products (reasearch commissioned by the WWF at Cranfield University).

Given how much soy is typically consumed by animals (many times their body mass) I'd be surprised by that. I'll try and find that research.

Large numbers of vegetarians eat fish - well known that a great deal of fish stocks have been in decline for the past 100 years.

No vegetarians eat fish - by pretty much any definition I've seen. Some people who eat fish cause confusion by describing themselves as vegetarian.

Vegetable production is mostly intensive farming with large amounts of fertiliser and pesticides needed (unless organic, but not many vegetarians I know eat only organic fruit and veg).

This is true - but so is most meat produce. I estimate I probably eat about 60% organic - and strive to increase that.

If you can find an article about soy bean production by Matthew J. Rales (Wise Traditions [the Weston A. Price Foundation quarterly journal]), it will be an eye opener.

I shall try. I don't consume a lot of soy and do ensure it is all organic as that also ensures that it's not grown on plains created from reainforest clearance like some soy produced for animal feed (and unfortunately supermarket own-brand veggie meals).

A lot of land cannot be used for anything else, apart from rearing cattle or sheep.

 

[button_boxer]

If you can find an article about soy bean production by Matthew J. Rales (Wise Traditions [the Weston A. Price Foundation quarterly journal]), it will be an eye opener.

I'd hardly call the Weston Price Foundation an unbiased and objective source of scientifically sound information. They're widely known to be anti-soya and pro-animal-products, even though the scientific consensus is against them.

 

[Dave R]

A vegetarian who eats fish and other seafood is called a pescatarian.

Maybe a hypocritical meat eater myself, I'd be a bit squeamish about killing for my own food as i suspect many other meat eaters would

I can accept vegetarianism, but pescatarianism and veganism I can't understand at all. I don't see how fish are different from any other animal, and i can't see the problem with 'exploiting' animals if it does them no harm.

Personally I would like to see animals more ethically treated (against battery hens etc.) but I have no problem with eating animals.

Admittedly I do not know a lot about diets such as these, so it would be interesting to hear from a vegan or a pescatarian.

 

[Zoe]

If they put photos of animals getting slaughtered on the front of animal products I think it would put people off.

 

[Failed Unit]

If they put photos of animals getting slaughtered on the front of animal products I think it would put people off.

Why? I have seen many and still enjoy meat. Anyway why should anyone be put off food? Surely that is as wrong as slagging off Vegans?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Why? I have seen many and still enjoy meat. Anyway why should anyone be put off food? Surely that is as wrong as slagging off Vegans?

Agreed, I watched that Kill It, Cook It, Eat It a while back on BBC3, which showed cows being slaughtered (uncut etc), and made me feel no different.

 

[Zoe]

Why? I have seen many and still enjoy meat. Anyway why should anyone be put off food? Surely that is as wrong as slagging off Vegans?

I'm just saying that anyone that eats meat should be fully aware of the conditions the animals are kept in and of the slaughter process. Many people disassociate the meat they buy from the animal.

 

[Failed Unit]

I'm just saying that anyone that eats meat should be fully aware of the conditions the animals are kept in and of the slaughter process. Many people disassociate the meat they buy from the animal.

But why is that a bad thing? If people enjoy the food then why spoil the pleasure. Oh for the record I have looked an animal in the eyes before it was on my plate.

 

[Zoe]

But why is that a bad thing? If people enjoy the food then why spoil the pleasure.

You are ulitmately gaining pleasure from the suffering of an animal.

 

[Failed Unit]

You are ulitmately gaining pleasure from the suffering of an animal.

Yes - deal with it. Who are you to tell people what they should or should not enjoy.

 

[Zoe]

Yes - deal with it. Who are you to tell people what they should or should not enjoy.

I think people should just realize the suffering these animals are going through to get their enjoyment. As I said above, not everyone thinks of a living animal when they have some meat on their plate.

 

[43021HST]

I used to be Vegetarian, until i tried bacon then I stopped, it shows how thin the veneer of vegetarianism can be. If we were'nt ment to eat animals, why do they taste so good? (tasteless joke)

 

[Zoe]

If we were'nt ment to eat animals, why do they taste so good? (tasteless joke)

I doubt you'd eat another human, even if they did taste good.

 

[Failed Unit]

I think people should just realize the suffering these animals are going through to get their enjoyment. As I said above, not everyone thinks of a living animal when they have some meat on their plate.

The only reason that they suffer is because people don't want to pay a fair price. But I have the feeling you have no idea what you are talking about. Animal welfare in the UK is very good. But again if people want to enjoy meat and be detached who are you to judge? Forcing opinions that meat production as cruel down peoples throats is as bad as forcing the to go to church every Sunday. If people want to enjoy meat that is their choice and no-one has a right to lecture them. It is not illegal FFs
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I doubt you'd eat another human, even if they did taste good.

Probably because canablism is illegal. You don't eat meat. People do. Accept it and shut up.

 

[Zoe]

It is not illegal FFs

Murder is illegal though and that's what you are effectively doing to the animals.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Oh, true delight, we've bumped into a animal rights activist who canaot accept that the human race is carnivorous, I eat meat, i would happily eat it if it was born, raised, killed and cooked in front of me. I eat meat, get over it :roll:

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The only reason that they suffer is because people don't want to pay a fair price. But I have the feeling you have no idea what you are talking about. Animal welfare in the UK is very good. But again if people want to enjoy meat and be detached who are you to judge? Forcing opinions that meat production as cruel down peoples throats is as bad as forcing the to go to church every Sunday. If people want to enjoy meat that is their choice and no-one has a right to lecture them. It is not illegal FFs
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Probably because canablism is illegal. You don't eat meat. People do. Accept it and shut up.

And you are forcing the opposing opinion down everyone's throats. "Accept it and shut up".

Anything where any kind of animal is slaughtered by definition is true. But that's how nature works. The bigger thing kills the little thing and the biggest thing kills the bigger thing.

 

[Failed Unit]

Murder is illegal though and that's what you are effectively doing to the animals.

But it is all worthwhile because it tastes so good. But if you want a countryside with no sheep, cattle etc then that is your choice.

 

[thefab444]

Murder is illegal though and that's what you are effectively doing to the animals.

And that's what you are effectively doing to the plants.

They might not be cute and have cuddly fur, but they are still living!

 

[Failed Unit]

And you are forcing the opposing opinion down everyone's throats. "Accept it and shut up".

Anything where any kind of animal is slaughtered by definition is true. But that's how nature works. The bigger thing kills the little thing and the biggest thing kills the bigger thing.

Yes you are right. I apologise. It justs winds me up when people say you shouldn't eat meat because if is murder. It is as bad as the smoking ban people should have choices. Maybe we should ban cats as they play with food before killing it.

 

[43021HST]

I doubt you'd eat another human, even if they did taste good.

Same species of animal physically cannot eat each other, (with some exceptions) I hope this also answers the cannibalism comments, also this thread has strayed from baking a Cake for a one year old goddaughter to cannibalism, some people on here must have some screwed up minds.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Same species of animal physically cannot eat each other, (with some exceptions) I hope this also answers the cannibalism comments, also this thread has strayed from baking a Cake for a one year old goddaughter to cannibalism, some people on here must have some screwed up minds.

Really? Obviously those two Germans who took part in some nefarious activities with cooking and themselves weren't human then!

 

[Hydro]

Really? Obviously those two Germans who took part in some nefarious activities with cooking and themselves weren't human then!

Of course they weren't, they were German for God's sake.


Joke.

 

[thefab444]

some people on here must have some screwed up minds.

You certainly do!

 

[Failed Unit]

You certainly do!

Makes interesting reading. I hope the cake worked and tasted good.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I hope the cake worked and tasted good.

So do I ! (Though I have some doubts from experiences in a vegan cafe I pop into from time to time!).
But, hey, Who would have thought that you'd get a cake recipe here on RailForums ?

I'm still intriged, thefab444,

And that's what you are effectively doing to the plants.

They might not be cute and have cuddly fur, but they are still living!

Nup, I think I'd avoid eating plants that had gone furry, and tomatoes have a nasty habit of doing that after a few days too many!

But seriously, and in all naievety on my part, still being quite surprised and puzzled, I asked you in post #25 on this thread if you could explain your conclusion that vegetarians are hypocritical but I don't think you've replied. I'd be so grateful if you could, please, purely for my own enlightenment. (You may PM me if you'd prefer not to explain publically).
Thanks

 

[button_boxer]

I can accept vegetarianism, but pescatarianism and veganism I can't understand at all. I don't see how fish are different from any other animal, and i can't see the problem with 'exploiting' animals if it does them no harm.

Personally I would like to see animals more ethically treated (against battery hens etc.) but I have no problem with eating animals.

Admittedly I do not know a lot about diets such as these, so it would be interesting to hear from a vegan or a pescatarian.

I'm a vegan because I don't believe in causing un-necessary suffering to any sentient being, human or otherwise. Since humans can live perfectly healthily without the use of animal products, any exploitation of animals for food or clothing is by definition un-necessary. That's enough of a reason for me, regardless of any welfare issues (of which there are many, possibly more so in dairy production than in meat production if anything). In my view it shouldn't be up to vegetarians and vegans to justify why they don't eat meat/milk/eggs/honey/whatever, it should be up to the meat eaters to justify why they do (see this book for more on that subject).

But unless I'm asked I'll keep my views to myself. If anyone wants to know the facts I'm happy to point them in the right direction but I don't push it.

 

[Failed Unit]

I eat meat because I enjoy it and it tastes good - simple. There that's it justified for me.

But button boxer I like your attitude and respect your opinion.

 

[thefab444]

I eat meat because I enjoy it and it tastes good - simple. There that's it justified for me.

Agreed.

Also agree with comments made by Dave R about pescatarianism, he's exemplified a lot of the hypocrisy I was talking about.

 

[button_boxer]

I eat meat because I enjoy it and it tastes good - simple. There that's it justified for me.

But button boxer I like your attitude and respect your opinion.

I applaud your honesty. Most people would try and rationalise their choice with arguments like "humans are carnivores" (we aren't - compare a human digestive system with a cat's) or "you need milk for calcium" (you don't, there are plenty of plant sources that are better than milk for various reasons) rather than admit it's all down to taste.