Rail strikes discussion

[2021_Signaller]

Feel its important again to point out that these are the first strikes Network Rail signallers have taken since 1994!

 

[Towers]

Feel its important again to point out that these are the first strikes Network Rail signallers have taken since 1994!

Poor show, where have you all been??!

(I jest!)

 

[ANorthernGuard]

This post makes no sense. Are you suggesting that questioning the strike - or even disagreeing with it - is the same as intimidating, ignoring or ganging up on colleagues that choose not to strike? The latter is bullying.

The former most certainly isn’t. As for hatred, there’s most certainly none from me; I simply like to know why these things take place particularly as they affect me (both as a passenger - and a railway worker concerned about these bullying allegations against strike breakers), so please do not throw the “hate” tag around in such a silly, immature way as if anything it’s insulting to those on the opposing end of genuine hate.

You come across as very little person who is bitter against anyone who actually uses the right to industrial action instead of towing the Tory Propaganda Bulls*it and the Daily Heil zombies who will be happy when workers rights will be diminished to a point like they have in the United States where there is no legal Holiday pay, Maternity and very few Workers rights.

 

[baz962]

I’m sure at this point you just have a copy and paste response at the ready for those that disagree with you; there’s a running pattern with you calling everyone bitter.

No one has said they’re set aside; the point is that all other industries seem to acknowledge at the moment the economy is badly damaged; the country cannot afford to give immense pay rises at the moment and that is due to COVID, the Russian-Ukranian situation, etc. And it sucks, but the aforementioned industries understand why this is rather than causing national chaos. My query was why the railway must be different.

Your last comments highlight my points further, your stubborn and defensive attitude and childish remarks such as that last one will get you nowhere, especially you are responding to a query of mine, not a statement.

We aren't different and other industries deserve a raise too , but it's their fight to have. As for other sectors accepting it , are they. Pretty sure NHS , teaching unions are warning of strikes and also barristers

 

[Starmill]

No one has said they’re set aside; the point is that all other industries seem to acknowledge at the moment the economy is badly damaged; the country cannot afford to give immense pay rises at the moment and that is due to COVID, the Russian-Ukranian situation, etc. And it sucks, but the aforementioned industries understand why this is rather than causing national chaos. My query was why the railway must be different.

To be fair there are almost half a million National Education Union members and they're being balloted for strike action. Between NEU, Unison, GMB and Unite school staff of all grades are very likely to be taking industrial action this year.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You come across as very little person who is bitter against anyone who actually uses the right to industrial action instead of towing the Tory Propaganda Bulls*it and the Daily Heil zombies who will be happy when workers rights will be diminished to a point like they have in the United States where there is no legal Holiday pay, Maternity and very few Workers rights.

How can you expect me to take your post seriously with such hyperbole, not to mention the language and childish phrases? You have no grounds for making such a presumption.

We aren't different and other industries deserve a raise too , but it's their fight to have. As for other sectors accepting it , are they. Pretty sure NHS , teaching unions are warning of strikes and also lawyers/solicitors.

Wonderful. This is an answer to my question, without any silly language or presumptions. That was all I wanted. Thank you.

 

[High Dyke]

Just seen a tv interview given by Rob Macintosh (Network Rail - Eastern Region route director). He was asked about agency staff. His reply was to the effect of re-skilling staff to be competent in their duties, whether that is current employees or agency workers. However he never specified which staff this applied to.

On the subject of the pay offer that Network Rail made last week.i.e 2% + 0.5% + 0.5%. Putting some context to this. On my current rate of pay an increase of 0.5% equates to a one-off payment of £160, which is one month's payment to my energy supplier.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

To be fair there are almost half a million National Education Union members and they're being balloted for strike action. Between NEU, Unison, GMB and Unite school staff of all grades are very likely to be taking industrial action this year.

Again, many thanks for explaining. I did not state anything, rather I questioned that it seemed the railways were the only industry taking action. Now I have two sensible answers from you and baz962 and my query has been resolved.

 

[Mag_seven]

Mick Lynch has just claimed that NR have sent out statutory redundancy notices - is this true and if so what group of NR workers have they been sent to?

 

[GeordieO]

When was their last pay rise? If they've had pay freezes for 10 years then a 25% pay rise now would be less than 2% every year for the last 10.

How many people are affected? And how much would the pay rise cost? I would guess rail workers make up a far greater number of people than publicly funded barristers.

Didn't I also read something about them having to do unpaid work due to government cuts to legal aid?

Be careful what comparisons you make.

To be honest I have no idea of the answers to those questions.

I don't like to make comparisons but essentially though the questions you ask are eerily similar and relevant to the rail industry too and the current dispute.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Mick Lynch has just claimed that NR have sent out statutory redundancy notices - is this true and if so what group of NR workers have they been sent to?

Not sure which group but it was apparently sent out yesterday according to BBC News.

 

[Bald Rick]

When was their last pay rise? If they've had pay freezes for 10 years then a 25% pay rise now would be less than 2% every year for the last 10.

According to the Bar Council, the average pay of barristers working on publicly funded criminal work has fallen in cash terms from £61k to £47k. That doesn’t allow for inflation, so that 23% reduction is worse in real terms.

so a 15% increase seems reasonable In that case.

 

[pemma]

I don't like to make comparisons but essentially though the questions you ask are eerily similar and relevant to the rail industry too and the current dispute.

While there's multiple different rail strikes happening simultaneously, I'm pretty sure we'd had rail pay disputes in recent years because the initial offer has been for roughly the rate of inflation when the parent company of operator has turned over a multi-million pound profit, so the union thinks it should be more.

 

[Need2]

Here we go then, just for you!

and entitlement by some of them, I’m still trying to establish what actually sets railway workers aside

What makes the railway think we deserve a better payrise than them

Once again, who has said that?

No one has said they’re set aside

Please see first copy and paste.

 

[gazr]

I can not understand why the Unions have to be affiliated with Labour (or any party) at this point in history. Surely, they should be independent and want what is only good for their members? As an outsider, Unions look like a Ponzi scheme with mob mentality; if you're not for unions, you're Tory (even if you vote Green, etc) and will be treated as such- and as such, everyone joins to not be an outcast. Sure, I know Unions have good points, and help individual members, but how many pay in week on week and never make use of them? Sorry if it's ignorance of my part, but that's how I see it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While there's multiple different rail strikes happening simultaneously, I'm pretty sure we'd had rail pay disputes in recent years because the initial offer has been for roughly the rate of inflation when the parent company of operator has turned over a multi-million pound profit, so the union thinks it should be more.

Profit sharing and company performance related bonuses are often paid for this kind of situation in private companies. This gives employee buy-in on ensuring the company makes a fat profit. Perhaps that should be considered? Or is that dirty capitalism?

 

[Ex-controller]

One rule that should change regarding strikes in any sector is that staying at home shouldn't be permitted. If you're on strike, you should be compelled to attend a picket line for the duration of your shift.

Then people would complain about hundreds of people on a picket line, ‘intimidating’ etc.

Speaking of which, Kay Burley’s ridiculous questioning of Mick Lynch this morning regarding picketing of agency staff was quite something.

Semantics. They're not turning up for work.

Yes, because they are on strike. ie, legally withdrawing their Labour, as is their right.

 

[pemma]

I can not understand why the Unions have to be affiliated with Labour (or any party) at this point in history.

The RMT are one of the founding members of the TUSC, a far left political party that have actively stood candidates against Labour in marginal seats and indirectly helped the Conservatives and SNP to gain seats.

 

[2021_Signaller]

Poor show, where have you all been??!

(I jest!)

I think that's a question that needs asking. Why are these the first strikes since 1994 - it certainly doesn't play into the common view of the critics on here, media or government.

The senior management at NR have really soured relations between them and front line workers after seemingly goodwill for many years. I see that many staff on the NR internal Yammer openly rebuke and mock the senior management team. I would expect now that this line has been drawn, strike action will become much more common from signallers in future. It will also not have escaped any workers notice that NR senior management are parroting government talking points.

 

[pemma]

Profit sharing and company performance related bonuses are often paid for this kind of situation in private companies. This gives employee buy-in on ensuring the company makes a fat profit. Perhaps that should be considered? Or is that dirty capitalism?

As an employee I certainly prefer pay rises to bonuses. If you get a £500 pay rise, you get the extra £500 next year and every subsequent year as well, on top of any future pay rise. If you get a £1000 bonus one year then that's good but next year you might get no bonus.

 

[kristiang85]

In my circles, that’s because it’s just another excuse to WFH & people are discreetly saying that they hope the strikes continue. It’s not like a pre-covid strike.

I can work from home and the strike isn't much skin off my nose, but I certainly don't hope they continue as I can see the bigger picture - they are going to be very damaging to an already fragile economy, and ultimately it affects all of us.

Much like during COVID when so many workers in various industries were celebrating what they saw as effectively paid holidays at home on the government's dime, I was certain it was going to bite us in the backside at some point, which is very much happening now. I'm getting fed up of my seeing my own quality of life in potential decline whilst many short-termists in this country think its all rather jolly. And they will be the first to complain and scream at the government when they realise this too.

(This is a slight at the people you're talking about, not you!).

 

[bengley]

It's worth mentioning the RMT are not affiliated with the labour party

 

[Starmill]

Profit sharing and company performance related bonuses are often paid for this kind of situation in private companies. This gives employee buy-in on ensuring the company makes a fat profit. Perhaps that should be considered? Or is that dirty capitalism?

For publicly-traded companies, free share options are also often used as their tax treatment is preferential.

 

[Snow1964]

Profit sharing and company performance related bonuses are often paid for this kind of situation in private companies. This gives employee buy-in on ensuring the company makes a fat profit. Perhaps that should be considered? Or is that dirty capitalism?

Considering we have had over 25 years of privatised railway, I can only assume that the rail unions have never made any serious attempt to ask for profit related pay, perhaps the workers taking an uplift in any good profits is not seen as them as desirable (people getting bonuses automatically rather undermines some of their thinking)

 

[Bletchleyite]

As an employee I certainly prefer pay rises to bonuses. If you get a £500 pay rise, you get the extra £500 next year and every subsequent year as well, on top of any future pay rise. If you get a £1000 bonus one year then that's good but next year you might get no bonus.

Yes, a pay rise is more secure. But profit-sharing is a solution to the "the evil company makes profit and I don't get a share of it". Well, here you go, here's a share of it. It's not evil now, is it?

For publicly-traded companies, free share options are also often used as their tax treatment is preferential.

Could certainly be done for e.g. FirstGroup TOCs.

 

[Snow1964]

On the subject of the pay offer that Network Rail made last week.i.e 2% + 0.5% + 0.5%. Putting some context to this. On my current rate of pay an increase of 0.5% equates to a one-off payment of £160, which is one month's payment to my energy supplier.

Can’t really expect Government to give both a fuel rebate and an inflation based pay rise when high fuel cost is the cause of inflation.

If you got the inflation (including high energy inflation) pay rise, then only reasonable to forgoe the fuel rebate

 

[sfieldhouse@me]

I've read this thread with interest, I'm a regular reader, but seldom do I comment. This is a genuine question, from a rail user - I'm not trolling!

In terms of going on strike, what is the intended outcome? What happens next?

 

[windingroad]

Profit sharing and company performance related bonuses are often paid for this kind of situation in private companies. This gives employee buy-in on ensuring the company makes a fat profit. Perhaps that should be considered? Or is that dirty capitalism?

Happy to be corrected here, but does that really make sense in the context of the railway? My (admittedly uninformed) perception is that, by and large, railway workers do a fairly strictly defined job which doesn't allow them much leeway to be high or low performers. In terms of the financial success of the railway, I'd argue that's almost entirely out of their hands.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Happy to be corrected here, but does that really make sense in the context of the railway? My (admittedly uninformed) perception is that, by and large, railway workers do a fairly strictly defined job which doesn't allow them much leeway to be high or low performers.

That's why everyone would get the same based on how the company does. I'm not proposing individual performance related pay which would indeed be difficult.

In terms of the financial success of the railway, I'd argue that's almost entirely out of their hands.

It might e.g. motivate lazy West Midlands Trains guards to get out of the cab and bother doing tickets, for instance. Though to be fair a "commission" per ticket scan might do that better.

 

[ComUtoR]

In terms of going on strike, what is the intended outcome? What happens next?

The aim is to force renegotiation and to get people talking round the table. Striking is a last resort tactic to show you are unwilling to accept an offer or to get an offer in the first place.