Rail strikes discussion

[adc82140]

Who is actually working on the railways today?

I understand over 95% of drivers are ASLEF or non union so are theoretically available for work today.

AIUI the majority of guards are RMT so won't be working.

What is the percentage of unionised signallers, gateline staff, maintenance staff etc?

Genuine question: how many different grades of staff are needed to run a DOO service from Station A to Station B safely and legally?

 

[Gems]

All governments have missed a simple answer to pension retirement age. It should simply be based on average life expectancy - x years and recalculated annually. Despite waspi women claiming to be hard done by, women live longer and pay less in, so arguably their pensions might reflect this. Alternatively, just take mean of men and women Life expectancy - x and keep it simple.

You're havin a laugh. Linking pension age to life expectancy was all the rage with the Tories whilst the expectancy age was rising. But now it is falling again, and I see no rush to lower the pension age.
No, lets be honest before we start to kid ourselves. It's all to do with the one thing Tories understand. Money.

 

[yorksrob]

it has been in place at NR for many years, as a general bonus scheme. Employees got* a bonus related to the success of the company each year which was based on a number of measures, including safety, performance, finance, passenger satisfaction etc. It typically paid out somewhere around £1000 per year.

I agree with such a scheme, but it should be heavily geared towards passenger/freight volumes carried,

The rest is all peripheral.

 

[pemma]

And some of the job sectors listed by the poster (who was just asking an innocent question!) as a comparison have had pay rises in 2022 and earlier during Covid.
Supermarket workers at various firms have had them as have bus drivers here in Manchester and I'm sure elsewhere around the country.

By law anyone who is paid the minimum wage needs to get an increase in pay when the minimum wage increases. Many supermarket workers are paid the minimum wage or just above. Then if you give the checkout workers a pay rise to £9.50, you can't exactly keep supervisors on £9.60 an hour! I'm sure any cleaners in the rail industry who were on minimum wage or just above already had a pay rise in April to comply with the increase in the minimum wage.

Bus drivers are poorly paid compared to train guards and for the first time in a long time the industry has struggled with staffing shortages, which is why many operators have needed to increase the pay of bus drivers. Local railways around London are the opposite. There's less demand than pre-pandemic but the staffing and rolling stock levels are at roughly the pre-pandemic levels.

 

[yorksrob]

You're havin a laugh. Linking pension age to life expectancy was all the rage with the Tories whilst the expectancy age was rising. But now it is falling again, and I see no rush to lower the pension age.
No, lets be honest before we start to kid ourselves. It's all to do with the one thing Tories understand. Money.

I vaguely recall a professional body (for actuaries maybe) suggesting that retirement age now needed to be adjusted back to take account of falling life expectancy. Needless to say, the Government/Establishment will do squat about it.

 

[Bald Rick]

I agree with such a scheme, but it should be heavily geared towards passenger/freight volumes carried,

The rest is all peripheral.

well have to disagree with that. I would never call safety peripheral.

 

[KM1991]

Out of curiosity - has anyone else been balloted by ASLEF? My letter has just arrived.

What TOC? Haven’t read anything else regarding new ASLEF disputes tbh

 

[yorksrob]

well have to disagree with that. I would never call safety peripheral.

Safety should be a given.

Volumes are the railway's business.

 

[baz962]

Who is actually working on the railways today?

I understand over 95% of drivers are ASLEF or non union so are theoretically available for work today.

AIUI the majority of guards are RMT so won't be working.

What is the percentage of unionised signallers, gateline staff, maintenance staff etc?

Genuine question: how many different grades of staff are needed to run a DOO service from Station A to Station B safely and legally?

All drivers are available who would of been anyway. Some companies are Doo or use contingency guards. But without signallers it's all pointless.

 

[PringlePopper1]

What TOC? Haven’t read anything else regarding new ASLEF disputes tbh

Southeastern, just wondered if anyone else is in the same boat

 

[Balol25]

Is there a chance this could be resolved this week and the remaining days be called off?

 

[bengley]

Is there a chance this could be resolved this week and the remaining days be called off?

Of course there is, although it's unlikely that things would be 100% back to normal for Thursday at this point.

 

[duncanp]

I vaguely recall a professional body (for actuaries maybe) suggesting that retirement age now needed to be adjusted back to take account of falling life expectancy. Needless to say, the Government/Establishment will do squat about it.

I don't know that the government will reduce the state pension age, but it could postpone or abandon increases in the state pension age that are already in the pipeline.

What might happen in the future is that people can choose to accept a lower state pension if they retire earlier than the state pension age, in a similar fashion to those who get an increased pension if they defer taking their state pension after state pension age.

 

[nottsnurse]

Other than an increasingly visible sense of arrogance and entitlement by some of them, I’m still trying to establish what actually sets railway workers aside from bank clerks, supermarket staff, NHS workers, dentists, vets, emergency services, bus drivers, road maintenance teams, council members etc. who are also suffering the cost of living increases too?

Please don't use my industry as ammunition for your quite obvious anti-Union diatribes.

The fact many of my colleagues in the NHS are too gutless to stand up for their professions and demand reasonable pay rises is why my profession (nursing) has seen its pay effectively cut by a fifth since 2010. I'm sure the fact we currently have approximately 40k vacancies for Registered Nurses (with all the impacts such shortages have on patient care) is no coincidence...

As multiple people have said on here, it's not a race to the bottom. From the financial illiteracy that was 'austerity', the idiocy of Brexit, through to the mismanagement of public funds that has led to Tory donors being given preferential contracts during Covid and £11Bn being written-off by the Treasury, this government has done all it can to attack the less well-off and feather the nests of the rich. Industrial Action was always going to be the result of such politically-driven assaults on the population.

Solidarity with all those on strike today.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't know that the government will reduce the state pension age, but it could postpone or abandon increases in the state pension age that are already in the pipeline.

What might happen in the future is that people can choose to accept a lower state pension if they retire earlier than the state pension age, in a similar fashion to those who get an increased pension if they defer taking their state pension after state pension age.

Abandoning/postponing increases would seem most sensible, as I can't see expectancy rising much, barring some unforseen medical breakthrough.

I don't know that the government will reduce the state pension age, but it could postpone or abandon increases in the state pension age that are already in the pipeline.

What might happen in the future is that people can choose to accept a lower state pension if they retire earlier than the state pension age, in a similar fashion to those who get an increased pension if they defer taking their state pension after state pension age.

Abandoning/postponing increases would seem most sensible, as I can't see expectancy rising much, barring some unforseen medical breakthrough.

 

[dan5324]

Well I’m not seeing this predicted chaos and apocalypse that was predicted. Yes, roads are a little busier. But I thought we’d have nationwide gridlock. Nope. All a bit of a damp squib really. Just shows that the railways aren’t as important as they may think. We had more chaos during the fuel shortages late last year….

Even London isn’t the usual carnage that it is when then tubes are striking. What a way to hasten your own demise.

 

[HL7]

I agree. She is usually well-briefed and can put interviewees under pressure. But Mick was completely unfazed and answered her question patiently 5 or 6 times but it still did not register with her how picketing worked. I suspect that Mick was relishing seeing her squirm as she dug a hole ever-deeper for herself.

I think she knows exactly how picketing works, IMO, she was attempting to goad Mick Lynch into snapping at her.
It was a pretty amateur attempt at trolling him into an an angry or exasperated response.

 

[yorksrob]

Well I’m not seeing this predicted chaos and apocalypse that was predicted. Yes, roads are a little busier. But I thought we’d have nationwide gridlock. Nope. All a bit of a damp squib really. Just shows that the railways aren’t as important as they may think. We had more chaos during the fuel shortages late last year….

It depends on the individual.

The strike has affected my plans, whereas I'd not even noticed there was a fuel shortage last year, let alone experienced "chaos" due to it.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

All drivers are available who would of been anyway. Some companies are Doo or use contingency guards. But without signallers it's all pointless.

So what does a DOO driver do when told to book on but there are no signallers to change those fancy lights? Get sent home?

 

[Watershed]

Well I’m not seeing this predicted chaos and apocalypse that was predicted. Yes, roads are a little busier. But I thought we’d have nationwide gridlock. Nope. All a bit of a damp squib really. Just shows that the railways aren’t as important as they may think. We had more chaos during the fuel shortages late last year….

Even London isn’t the usual carnage that it is when then tubes are striking. What a way to hasten your own demise.

That probably shouldn't come as a huge surprise given that only 2% of all journeys that people make are made by rail.

London is certainly worst affected but with a skeleton service still running on many lines, it is just about managing.

The big issue will come if the TSSA join the strike action as that will put paid to any sort of contingency service running.

 

[pemma]

You're havin a laugh. Linking pension age to life expectancy was all the rage with the Tories whilst the expectancy age was rising. But now it is falling again, and I see no rush to lower the pension age.
No, lets be honest before we start to kid ourselves. It's all to do with the one thing Tories understand. Money.

When it was proposed the state retirement age would be made the same for men and women, it was reported that changing it to 63 for both men and women would be cost neutral, as well as achieving the aim of equality. However, the government went for 65 instead.

 

[gazr]

Well I’m not seeing this predicted chaos and apocalypse that was predicted. Yes, roads are a little busier. But I thought we’d have nationwide gridlock. Nope. All a bit of a damp squib really. Just shows that the railways aren’t as important as they may think. We had more chaos during the fuel shortages late last year….

Even London isn’t the usual carnage that it is when then tubes are striking. What a way to hasten your own demise.

Maybe Labour will call on their XR chums to up the anti on Thursday?

 

[DelayRepay]

It depends on the individual.

The strike has affected my plans, whereas I'd not even noticed there was a fuel shortage last year, let alone experienced "chaos" due to it.

The only impact it's had on me today is that more of my colleagues are working at home, and a face to face workshop that was supposed to be in London on Thursday has been changed to next week. To be honest after all the disruption over the last two+ years it's something of nothing.

I do feel for those who run coffee shops etc though, who will be badly impacted by loss of takings today.

 

[dan5324]

It depends on the individual.

The strike has affected my plans, whereas I'd not even noticed there was a fuel shortage last year, let alone experienced "chaos" due to it.

You probably don’t go out much. Or you live in the sticks. Every petrol station had queues which was blocking traffic, buses and even obstructing pedestrians.

 

[baz962]

So what does a DOO driver do when told to book on but there are no signallers to change those fancy lights? Get sent home?

Well I'm not doo anymore. Some trains are running , more drivers would be spare or jobs would be split. I wouldn't be surprised if the company also granted all leave requested rather than some getting denied. Also certain other things like rules or safety days would be caught up on , or training on the simulator.

 

[Mojo]

Well I’m not seeing this predicted chaos and apocalypse that was predicted. Yes, roads are a little busier. But I thought we’d have nationwide gridlock. Nope. All a bit of a damp squib really. Just shows that the railways aren’t as important as they may think. We had more chaos during the fuel shortages late last year….

Even London isn’t the usual carnage that it is when then tubes are striking. What a way to hasten your own demise.

I’m not surprised that in the rest of the country traffic is largely as normal, because the number of people travelling by train between the cities is probably a drop in the ocean compared to the motorway traffic capacity. Going into city centres is where the impact will be felt most, but I respectfully disagree about London, the whole of the West End is extremely busy with journeys being better off walked due to the speeds. The A40 this morning heading into town was queueing all the way from the Target Roundabout to Concord and that was at 6am!

 

[yorksrob]

The only impact it's had on me today is that more of my colleagues are working at home, and a face to face workshop that was supposed to be in London on Thursday has been changed to next week. To be honest after all the disruption over the last two+ years it's something of nothing.

I do feel for those who run coffee shops etc though, who will be badly impacted by loss of takings today.

Yes, I think a lot of businesses will feel it.

The real worry is that it drags on and on like disputes seem to nowadays.

I'm not quite sure what the PM was blathering on about regarding commuters "staying the course" as we don't have a choice. As a passenger I've no interest in "staying the course", I want it resolved quickly.

You probably don’t go out much. Or you live in the sticks. Every petrol station had queues which was blocking traffic, buses and even obstructing pedestrians.

Funnily enough, I go out quite a lot - I just don't use road transport (the local petrol station I walk past has been a hand car wash for some years now !).

 

[KendalR]

Well I’m not seeing this predicted chaos and apocalypse that was predicted. Yes, roads are a little busier. But I thought we’d have nationwide gridlock. Nope. All a bit of a damp squib really. Just shows that the railways aren’t as important as they may think. We had more chaos during the fuel shortages late last year….

Even London isn’t the usual carnage that it is when then tubes are striking. What a way to hasten your own demise.

Disgruntled bus driver jealous of railway staff after being knocked back for a train driver job himself.

I'll take whatever you say with a pinch of salt.

The working class really do love to turn on each other.

 

[HL7]

So what does a DOO driver do when told to book on but there are no signallers to change those fancy lights? Get sent home?

This DOO driver set his alarm for 5 this morning, phoned in to book on and went back to sleep.

 

[Frankfurt]

Out of curiosity - has anyone else been balloted by ASLEF? My letter has just arrived.

Marked and already popped in post with a yes to both!