Rail strikes discussion

[KM1991]

Marked and already popped in post with a yes to both!

What is the SouthEastern dispute about? Also Pay/Ts&Cs? Can’t find anything online

 

[dan5324]

Disgruntled bus driver jealous of railway staff after being knocked back for a train driver job himself.

I'll take whatever you say with a pinch of salt.

The working class really do love to turn on each other.

Ha I think you have the wrong person there. I also like how you didn’t disagree.

 

[Bryan111]

Ha I think you have the wrong person there. I also like how you didn’t disagree.

He doesn't have the wrong person, Dan. I also saw your previous posts before you just changed the settings on your profile.

 

[PringlePopper1]

What is the SouthEastern dispute about? Also Pay/Ts&Cs? Can’t find anything online

We are one of the lowest paid driving grades in the country yet we are living in the second most expensive part of the UK, many of us drive 377’s for Southern which are paid a lot more, yet alone sharing messrooms with various drivers who are paid more than us when we have one of the busiest networks on the country. Also no pay rise since 2019, and with the shambles of the franchise extension we were promised we’d be brought up to a matching salary.

 

[2021_Signaller]

Well I’m not seeing this predicted chaos and apocalypse that was predicted. Yes, roads are a little busier. But I thought we’d have nationwide gridlock. Nope. All a bit of a damp squib really. Just shows that the railways aren’t as important as they may think. We had more chaos during the fuel shortages late last year….

Even London isn’t the usual carnage that it is when then tubes are striking. What a way to hasten your own demise.

Again, those that accused the RMT of causing chaos for people and then saying haha it hasn't. These people can't make their minds up what they want to attack those striking for a better industry for. There's a job for you in this u turning useless government - who will u turn yet... We're just getting started

 

[KendalR]

Ha I think you have the wrong person there. I also like how you didn’t disagree.

I've seen silly comments from yourself in the past so thought I'd check your profile to make sure it was the same person, so no I definitely didn't get the wrong person.

I didn't disagree because the initial statement was nonsense. Predicted apocalypse, really - where did you see that?

He doesn't have the wrong person, Dan. I also saw your previous posts before you just changed the settings on your profile.

Cheers Bryan111

 

[PringlePopper1]

Again, those that accused the RMT of causing chaos for people and then saying haha it hasn't. These people can't make their minds up what they want to attack those striking for a better industry for. There's a job for you in this u turning useless government - who will u turn yet... We're just getting started

Couldn’t agree more

 

[WiredUp]

Guess Mick Lynch was telling some version of the truth....​

This message has been sent to all Network Rail colleagues​

21 June 2022​

Dear colleague Yesterday, Monday 20 June, we signalled we would be moving into formal consultation with the trades unions on Modernising Maintenance and invited them to meet us formally on Friday 1 July. The proposed changes affect all colleagues who work in Maintenance and Works Delivery/Construction Services. We’ve been meeting with the trades unions since January to discuss ideas for how we can make the required savings while also improving our working practices to make us safer and more efficient. We’ve met many times and been very open about the challenges we face. These conversations have been running alongside the negotiations in pay as we’ve been clear that being more efficient in how we work helps us to find money for a pay deal. As part of the Modernising Maintenance discussions with the trades unions, we’ve gone through all our ideas and data in detail and considered other ideas. The talks being inconclusive last night has meant that we will be moving to formal consultation – it’s the natural next step in that process, given the urgent need to reform. We remain committed to working with the trades unions through our collective bargaining process and will start consultation on National Principles first and then move to local consultation when national consultation ends. These processes do take time and nothing will change until they’re concluded. Our aim is to have a negotiated settlement with the trades unions and to look at options that will mitigate against compulsory redundancy. We’d like to have a job for everyone who wants to work, is committed to safety and service and willing to be flexible. We’ve been very clear with you and the trades unions about why we must change. By modernising maintenance and doing things differently, we can be safer, provide a better service and have more varied jobs for our people. We can all win by creating a more sustainable future for the railway. If you would like to read the letters sent to the trades unions and see the answers to some common questions, these are available on the Modernising Maintenance page on MyConnect Ongoing maintenance of our railway is critical and we appreciate that affected colleagues will continue to provide a safe, reliable service. While we’re consulting on these proposals, I’m grateful for your awareness and understanding of the impact of the consultation process on colleagues. Tim​

 

[GB]

He doesn't have the wrong person, Dan. I also saw your previous posts before you just changed the settings on your profile.

He might have changed his profile settings but his previous posts are still there for all to see and I think KendalR is spot on.

 

[KGX]

Well I’m not seeing this predicted chaos and apocalypse that was predicted. Yes, roads are a little busier. But I thought we’d have nationwide gridlock. Nope. All a bit of a damp squib really. Just shows that the railways aren’t as important as they may think. We had more chaos during the fuel shortages late last year….

Even London isn’t the usual carnage that it is when then tubes are striking. What a way to hasten your own demise.

Just out of interest. When you say hasten the demise… are you thinking along the lines of frequency/capacity cuts or whole line closures?

 

[cjmillsnun]

One rule that should change regarding strikes in any sector is that staying at home shouldn't be permitted. If you're on strike, you should be compelled to attend a picket line for the duration of your shift.

That would be illegal unless no more than 6 people were on strike for each workplace affected.

 

[BrokenSam]

According to the Bar Council, the average pay of barristers working on publicly funded criminal work has fallen in cash terms from £61k to £47k. That doesn’t allow for inflation, so that 23% reduction is worse in real terms.

so a 15% increase seems reasonable In that case.

Just read The Secret Barristers book again and after deductions the take home is something ridiculous like £15,000 a year for a criminal barrister who works ludicrous hours as is. They deserve better.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’ve said rather a lot on this thread, so I’m going to just say one final thing.

This topic has been exceptionally dividing, and several posts have caused issue with other members, including my own. This is a controversial topic, and while I stand by my anti-strike stance, I recognise the extremely complex nature of railway jobs and the hard, hard work put into them by staff everyday, and have so much respect for them despite not being a supporter of strikes.

Therefore, if any of my posts have upset anyone due to me being against strike action, then I just want to apologise for that. I do have a anti-strike stance and I won’t be changing that despite some of you challenging it, but first and foremost we are all humans with individual opinions and I do not wish for anyone to be upset by my posts. For me, respect for others comes before getting my point across and that is why I just wish to add that I may not approve of strike action but I accept the right for workers to strike and the hard work of those choosing to.

And even though I loathe strikes with all my heart, if the railway industry do come out of it with a rise, I will be raising a glass with you. I cannot deny one is well deserved.

 

[baz962]

Ballot papers just hit arriva rail London Overground driver doormats.

 

[mrmartin]

On the train back from Cardiff to Paddington and it's completely dead. I was worried that it might be quite busy with the big reduction in frequencies/services, but it looks like people aren't travelling at all instead. I wonder if the TOCs have slightly scared people off travelling on lines that are running?

 

[142blue]

Please don't use my industry as ammunition for your quite obvious anti-Union diatribes.

The fact many of my colleagues in the NHS are too gutless to stand up for their professions and demand reasonable pay rises is why my profession (nursing) has seen its pay effectively cut by a fifth since 2010. I'm sure the fact we currently have approximately 40k vacancies for Registered Nurses (with all the impacts such shortages have on patient care) is no coincidence...

As multiple people have said on here, it's not a race to the bottom. From the financial illiteracy that was 'austerity', the idiocy of Brexit, through to the mismanagement of public funds that has led to Tory donors being given preferential contracts during Covid and £11Bn being written-off by the Treasury, this government has done all it can to attack the less well-off and feather the nests of the rich. Industrial Action was always going to be the result of such politically-driven assaults on the population.

Solidarity with all those on strike today.

And as a couple going through IVF and the birth of our first child soon we absolutely respect the amazing work the NHS does and will never tolerate people criticising you and your colleagues

 

[Thumper1127]

I totally agree

You say that but if you look at the financial mess the railway is in, workers for companies in a similar situation in other industries would be very worried about whether they would still have a job in a few months. They wouldn't be saying how much more are you going to pay me?

I’ve said rather a lot on this thread, so I’m going to just say one final thing.

This topic has been exceptionally dividing, and several posts have caused issue with other members, including my own. This is a controversial topic, and while I stand by my anti-strike stance, I recognise the extremely complex nature of railway jobs and the hard, hard work put into them by staff everyday, and have so much respect for them despite not being a supporter of strikes.

Therefore, if any of my posts have upset anyone due to me being against strike action, then I just want to apologise for that. I do have a anti-strike stance and I won’t be changing that despite some of you challenging it, but first and foremost we are all humans with individual opinions and I do not wish for anyone to be upset by my posts. For me, respect for others comes before getting my point across and that is why I just wish to add that I may not approve of strike action but I accept the right for workers to strike and the hard work of those choosing to.

And even though I loathe strikes with all my heart, if the railway industry do come out of it with a rise, I will be raising a glass with you. I cannot deny one is well deserved.

Well said. There are differences obviously and I have winced at some of the postings, especially the political ones, as well as some awful attitudes to others. But we are all in this earth for a limited time so, disagree with others by all means but do so in a respectable manner.

 

[Bald Rick]

Safety should be a given.

indeed, and Lots of people work very hard to make it so. Should bonuses still be paid if there is a major safety lapse?

Volumes are the railway's business.

indeed they are, although I don’t think that paying big bonuses for shifts lots of passnegrs and freight that was consistently late would be well received.

I’ll also remind you of that when we come back to opening new lines in rural areas!

Is there a chance this could be resolved this week and the remaining days be called off?

even if the remaining days are called off, the train service will be as planned until at least Saturday.

 

[moleman212]

Again, those that accused the RMT of causing chaos for people and then saying haha it hasn't. These people can't make their minds up what they want to attack those striking for a better industry for. There's a job for you in this u turning useless government - who will u turn yet... We're just getting started

I rather think you'd prefer there to be chaos so you'd imagine the strikers would have a better chance of their demands being met sooner?

Striking won't necessarily get you a better industry. The longer it goes on, the fewer members of the public will support a strike. I doubt a majority of the public supports it as it is...

The longer the strike goes on, the more members of staff will sign on to work anyway...talks of 15% pay rises are lunacy.

 

[dk1]

This DOO driver set his alarm for 5 this morning, phoned in to book on and went back to sleep.

Oh you where lucky. We had to go in for a few hours in the messroom with those booked on nearest the few trains running at departure time having to work them.

On the train back from Cardiff to Paddington and it's completely dead. I was worried that it might be quite busy with the big reduction in frequencies/services, but it looks like people aren't travelling at all instead. I wonder if the TOCs have slightly scared people off travelling on lines that are running?

I think they probably have with several asking passengers not to travel at all. I expect it’s the fear of too many turning up for last trains this afternoon & not being able to accommodate everybody. Makes sense to not put themselves in that position.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ballot papers just hit arriva rail London Overground driver doormats.

Is this the same as the RMT-TOC disputes, or is it different (ie is what's on the table the same or different)?
We seem to have three different disputes going on at the same time, with pay being only one component.

 

[Need2]

Just read The Secret Barristers book again and after deductions the take home is something ridiculous like £15,000 a year for a criminal barrister who works ludicrous hours as is. They deserve better.

As long as it doesn’t increase inflation, say 2-3%, then I agree.

 

[baz962]

Is this the same as the RMT-TOC disputes, or is it different (ie is what's on the table the same or different)?
We seem to have three different disputes going on at the same time, with pay being only one component.

I believe pay only. But I could be wrong.

 

[Need2]

This DOO driver set his alarm for 5 this morning, phoned in to book on and went back to sleep.

I don’t think that’s anything to boast about really.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So what does a DOO driver do when told to book on but there are no signallers to change those fancy lights? Get sent home?

Same as anyone else who makes themselves available for work but the employer doesn't have any for them - they get a free day off. That happens in IT too - sometimes between projects I get a couple of weeks of "free holiday" because there is no work. I'm asked to do online training etc which I do as requested (it's quite interesting, if nothing else) but that can be done from anywhere and at any time, so if I'd rather go out during the day for a walk, bike ride or train ride or whatever and do it in the evening I can provided I've got my phone on me just in case.

 

[moleman212]

From the financial illiteracy that was 'austerity', the idiocy of Brexit, through to the mismanagement of public funds that has led to Tory donors being given preferential contracts during Covid and £11Bn being written-off by the Treasury, this government has done all it can to attack the less well-off and feather the nests of the rich. Industrial Action was always going to be the result of such politically-driven assaults on the population.

Solidarity with all those on strike today.

It was mostly the "less well off", as you put it, who voted for Brexit in their millions...many of them former Labour voters.

 

[yorksrob]

indeed, and Lots of people work very hard to make it so. Should bonuses still be paid if there is a major safety lapse?



indeed they are, although I don’t think that paying big bonuses for shifts lots of passnegrs and freight that was consistently late would be well received.

I’ll also remind you of that when we come back to opening new lines in rural areas!

Paying bonuses for safety seems like paying a bonus for doing the job properly, which they ought to be anyway.

I think the bonus should be more heavily geared towards growing the business. Given the current issues around lack of rolling stock where trains are being scrapped without replacement, busy trains where pre-pandemic timetables haven't been restored, inability to run the advertised service because of lack of rest day working agreements etc, this is the thing that the industry as a whole needs to be addressing and isn't.

 

[DorkingMain]

So 2%+1% does sound a little stingy compared to where the private sector settlements are right now (+ where public sector likely to be) but the rest really doesn't sound that unreasonable to be honest - you would still have a very good set of T&Cs compared to the wider economy.

2% + 1% 6 months later might be a reasonable offer in a normal year.

In the context of soaring inflation and with a ton of productivity clauses added in, it's really poor.

 

[BrokenSam]

As long as it doesn’t increase inflation, say 2-3%, then I agree.

They're self employed. They need legal aid funding to be increased by a substantial amount more. But this is going off topic.

 

[Bald Rick]

Paying bonuses for safety seems like paying a bonus for doing the job properly, which they ought to be anyway.

that doesnt answer my question.