Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Germany does have lower Positivity Rate than countries where it is not compulsory, I think most people would want to wear one if they knew everyone else would aswell.
Better to keep it than to lose it and have to bring it back, We will have to bring it back this winter in UK Im sure
I was in Germany in June, i quite liked their approach, it was very free and easy on the whole.
However, the police were doing random patrols on the S-Bahn in Berlin, if they come across someone who was unmasked they just gave them a free surgical grade mask (the ones that DO make a difference) and watched as the person put it on. They were very civil about it.
I was in Germany in June, i quite liked their approach, it was very free and easy on the whole.
However, the police were doing random patrols on the S-Bahn in Berlin, if they come across someone who was unmasked they just gave them a free surgical grade mask (the ones that DO make a difference) and watched as the person put it on. They were very civil about it.
That sounds delightful and not remotely authoritarian……
Whilst FFP2/3 masks (NOT surgical grade masks) do offer protection to the wearer, people will inevitably be exposed the virus when they remove them so strategically it’s pointless (as evidenced by Germany’s infection rates over the course of the pandemic).
At risk of repeating myself yet again, if an individual feels that they are entering a perceived high risk environment, and wishes to mitigate the risk by wearing a properly fitted FFP2/3 mask whilst in that environment, it’s entirely up to them. The theatre of mask mandates however needs to end, there’s been enough damage done.
Rubbish, as almost everyone who has the jab won't be vulnerable to virus and wouldn't have been hospitalised. Those who are vulnerable get it anyway so more like lose-lose if everyone has it.
Everyone's vulnerable to the virus, it doesn't stop at someone's nose and says "I can't go in there". So we have the jabs to protect ourselves once it gets in, and some people have no symptoms, some mild and some severe, the jabs should stop the majority of us being "severe" and needing NHS treatment.
It's not just the elderly or younger week who get ill; even our very own PM went down with it and I don't think he was in the "vulnerable" category? I can't see how one would "lose" by taking the jab, whatever their condition. But it isn't compulsory, each to their own.
Everyone's vulnerable to the virus, it doesn't stop at someone's nose and says "I can't go in there". So we have the jabs to protect ourselves once it gets in, and some people have no symptoms, some mild and some severe, the jabs should stop the majority of us being "severe" and needing NHS treatment.
Anybody can be infected by SARS-CoV-2 that’s correct, however the chances of somebody outwith the recognised vulnerable groups needing hospital treatment as a result are remote to say the least. It simply doesn’t result in serious illness for the overwhelming majority of people with a functioning immune system, regardless of what some people would have us believe.
It's not just the elderly or younger week who get ill; even our very own PM went down with it and I don't think he was in the "vulnerable" category? I can't see how one would "lose" by taking the jab, whatever their condition. But it isn't compulsory, each to their own.
Boris was (is?) overweight which increased the risk of serious illness considerably, certainly during the first wave. It’s well documented.
People have “lost” by taking the vaccine, it’s not 100% safe (like any other medical procedure). It’s good though that you respect freedom of choice as it’s important, regardless of our own views on what is a complex subject.
You may find that Liz Truss whoever the new Prime Minister is does precisely that.
People will have enough to worry about with the increase in energy bills.
But the locktivists and maskivists will no doubt be plotting their next move, no doubt citing the example of Germany, where there are compulsory FFP2 face nappies on public transport until 7th April 2023, and also
the threat of testing and vaccinations to enter certain indoor public spaces (eg restaurants and bars)
Why are Germany considering doing this, at such a very late stage? One would think their economy will be doing bad enough as it is without measures such as requiring a test to enter a bar or restaurant which will likely cause more people to stay at home and not go out.
Two of them say it's like having the flu, the care worker has been hit harder and given it to her elderly mum as well.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Once bitten, twice shy i guess. 17.000 shouting and singing in close proxitimity to each other for 4 hours plus, and all the congestion around the venue as well. I guess it's no surprise really.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Reasonably. We all took it carefully the week before in order to avoid testing positive before the event as the tickets cost a lot.
And they came down with it on Wednesday. So likely i would have said. But not 100 percent certain.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Yes, i'm aware that other things can hit you harder. She got Norovirus from a Chinese takeaway a few months ago. She said she feels about as rough with this as she did with that. She does have a few underlying health issues though - as do i.
I was offered the booster but she wasn't. Some conditions for some reason aren't included, even though she has one that responds very badly to any virus.
We are looking at covid on top of flu which is back with a vengance and the NHS nor any healthcare system will not be able to cope with that unless precautions are taken
Dont forget that the world health organization consider the pandemic ongoing and continue to advice basic precautions like masks, physical distancing, venitlation, avoiding travel and of course test test test.
none of us want a lock down this winter and a lock down would be very bad for bills but to avoid one we need to take these steps, basic steps in the summer like Germany are taking and stricter steps in the winter, balance the economy with health. if we have to lock down those who are not following basic precautions must take the blame
We are looking at covid on top of flu which is back with a vengance and the NHS nor any healthcare system will not be able to cope with that unless precautions are taken
Dont forget that the world health organization consider the pandemic ongoing and continue to advice basic precautions like masks, physical distancing, venitlation, avoiding travel and of course test test test.
none of us want a lock down this winter and a lock down would be very bad for bills but to avoid one we need to take these steps, basic steps in the summer like Germany are taking and stricter steps in the winter, balance the economy with health. if we have to lock down those who are not following basic precautions must take the blame
You're welcome to hide behind your sofa or take afternoon tea, socially distanced with comrade Michie, but I and everyone I know socially, professionally and otherwise, are not and will not be taking ANY of the steps you describe. At this point I fear you're trolling for shlts and giggles.
We are looking at covid on top of flu which is back with a vengance and the NHS nor any healthcare system will not be able to cope with that unless precautions are taken
Dont forget that the world health organization consider the pandemic ongoing and continue to advice basic precautions like masks, physical distancing, venitlation, avoiding travel and of course test test test.
none of us want a lock down this winter and a lock down would be very bad for bills but to avoid one we need to take these steps, basic steps in the summer like Germany are taking and stricter steps in the winter, balance the economy with health. if we have to lock down those who are not following basic precautions must take the blame
Just to pick you up here, NHS not coping they have had 2 years!, as with the masks etc how many did we see in the media and politicians following those guidelines? I’m sorry but people need to wake up and realise you been played by those that set out these things, switch off enjoy life!
Just to add you mentioned flu? I remember at a press conference maybe 2020 or 2021 that was brought up/mentioned, oh the irony in that! It comes more across as they done this on purpose knock one out get the other.
We are looking at covid on top of flu which is back with a vengance and the NHS nor any healthcare system will not be able to cope with that unless precautions are taken
Dont forget that the world health organization consider the pandemic ongoing and continue to advice basic precautions like masks, physical distancing, venitlation, avoiding travel and of course test test test.
none of us want a lock down this winter and a lock down would be very bad for bills but to avoid one we need to take these steps, basic steps in the summer like Germany are taking and stricter steps in the winter, balance the economy with health. if we have to lock down those who are not following basic precautions must take the blame
For the vast majority of people, neither COVID or flu requires hospitalisation, so even though the number of cases might look a bit scary, the effect on the NHS will be fairly small.
Those who are vulnerable to flu and COVID are due to be vaccinated with boosters starting in September, so that even if they do catch COVID or flu, they are far less likely to require hospitalisation.
All of this means that the downside of measures such as masks, social distancing, ventilation, avoiding travel and constant testing are considerably greater than any marginal benefit that they might have.
Today's economic news regarding interest rates, inflation and a probable recession is a direct result of the COVID measures that we have had to endure in the past.
The economy and people's mental health simply cannot take any more, and I think we have reached the stage in the COVID pandemic where the cure is worse than the disease, and we have to manage COVID just we have managed every other respiratory virus in the pasr.
You're welcome to hide behind your sofa or take afternoon tea, socially distanced with comrade Michie, but I and everyone I know socially, professionally and otherwise, are not and will not be taking ANY of the steps you describe. At this point I fear you're trolling for shlts and giggles.
Aah but think of the NHS and listen to what Auntie Beeb, Sky and ITV say it’s the truth!
I wonder how many in the media partied in lockdown but I still see we are silent on that since well media had a go at him with cake (whilst the very same in devolved nations too but still media silent).
Today's economic news regarding interest rates, inflation and a probable recession is a direct result of the COVID measures that we have has to endure in the past.
The economy and people's mental health simply cannot take any more, and I think we have reached the stage in the COVID pandemic where the cure is worse than the disease, and we have to manage COVID just we have managed every other respiratory virus in the pasr.
I suspect there will be increasing anger as people see the consequences.
I have no problem picking up the bill for an emergency response in March 2020. However it should never have become “business as usual” for well over a year, seemingly because the government didn’t have the bottle to confront the reality of all this. Then there was the Omicron scare, further damage over essentially nothing (and we seem to have been lucky more damage wasn’t done there).
But there’s still people who think the whole thing was wonderful because they got a few discount dinners, or like the idea of a “more localised economy”, whatever that is.
For the vast majority of people, neither COVID or flu requires hospitalisation, so even though the number of cases might look a bit scary, the effect on the NHS will be fairly small.
Unfortunately we can not guarantee that, im sure you are aware that the NHS barely makes it through winter as it is, we only got away with it last year because there was no flu as masks introduced far too late.
Yes Covid may not cause that many hospitalisations but if hospitals are 95% full in a normal winter and covid adds 10% where do you think that leaves us? and what if its even worse.
are you seriously saying that the NHS can cope with flu and covid in a wave together? covid may be over after this flu season but that depends on when a new variant comes out and we could be lucky with the timing or we could be unlucky. I admire your confidence but fear it is misplaced
That is why we need some basic measures in place before the winter:
-> If we put in place measures and find we did not need them, we have not lost anything
-> If we dont put in place measures and find out we did need them, it will be too late to avoid a lock down
Its been 2 and a half years and we know how to control cases, we all agree that lockdown should be history, but if we do not follow the science then it will not be.
Really? Because I've seen no evidence at all from all the places around the world that have tried all manner of different measures and combinations of measures, that anything we do makes any particular difference whatsover. And that's a lot of data we now have.
Unfortunately we can not guarantee that, im sure you are aware that the NHS barely makes it through winter as it is, we only got away with it last year because there was no flu as masks introduced far too late.
Yes Covid may not cause that many hospitalisations but if hospitals are 95% full in a normal winter and covid adds 10% where do you think that leaves us? and what if its even worse.
are you seriously saying that the NHS can cope with flu and covid in a wave together? covid may be over after this flu season but that depends on when a new variant comes out and we could be lucky with the timing or we could be unlucky. I admire your confidence but fear it is misplaced
That is why we need some basic measures in place before the winter:
-> If we put in place measures and find we did not need them, we have not lost anything
-> If we dont put in place measures and find out we did need them, it will be too late to avoid a lock down
Its been 2 and a half years and we know how to control cases, we all agree that lockdown should be history, but if we do not follow the science then it will not be.
I’m sorry but what? So let me get this straight priority is now over flu as well as COVID? Oh jeez I wonder where the planning has been, they have had more than enough time.
What about other health issues do we cast them aside and wish those people the best?
As for following the science what science was that exactly? Those that in media and politics can make up the rules for us plebs whilst they go for a party or jaunt off on holiday? I’m sorry it’s done and I mean done, if you want to believe everything that’s said by your media politicians or the scientists go ahead but let others get on in life.
Mind it was ok for Professor Ferguson to go for a bonk but us the public not too or even better the science in closing parks/play parks etc, it wasn’t science was it? It was basically stopping people socialising and enjoying life, but those actions have/are having consequences now aren’t they? Lo and behold those that advocated these things are the same ones doing the moaning, again rather than lay blame with the public why do you not turn this onto the media/scientists etc, it’s their actions that have caused these consequences.
Also remind me of that science of seeing people at a prom masked up dancing awkwardly? Where was the science in that COVID avoids you sitting down to standing up or the classic have a drink outside than inside or the final one it took politicians at least a year and half to suddenly wear masks where us the public were told to where them?
Come on it’s not science it’s theatre, the public are the participants in a reality show/real life and the media are pulling the strings! Take off the rose tinted glasses and see the reality.
All of the measures you are advocating have consequences, both for the economy and people's mental health.
YOU might not lose all that much as a consequence of COVID restrictions, but there are plenty of people who will.
If you look at the hospitalisation, serious illness and death figures for the current "wave" of COVID (that is just coming to an end, please note) you will see that the increase in hospitalisations compared to the increase in cases is very small.
Furthermore, a large proportion of those "COVID hospitalisations" were actually incidental, when people were admitted to hospital for reasons other than COVID and just happened to test positive.
And a lot of the current "pressure" on the NHS is them catching up on all the missed appointments and heathcare which didn't take place because of the lockdowns.
If we have any more significant and prolonged COVID restrictions, the healthcare backlogs will get even worse.
Oh and one other thing - if you want a decent functioning healthcare system which is fit for purpose, you have to have a healthy economy that is able to raise enough taxes to pay for the NHS.
The COVID restrictions who you advocate will damage the economy and make it more difficult to support the NHS in the future.
We are looking at covid on top of flu which is back with a vengance and the NHS nor any healthcare system will not be able to cope with that unless precautions are taken
Dont forget that the world health organization consider the pandemic ongoing and continue to advice basic precautions like masks, physical distancing, venitlation, avoiding travel and of course test test test.
Is it true that the World Health Organisation wish people to "avoid travel"? If so, why? What justification can they have, given Omicron is everywhere?
none of us want a lock down this winter and a lock down would be very bad for bills but to avoid one we need to take these steps, basic steps in the summer like Germany are taking and stricter steps in the winter, balance the economy with health. if we have to lock down those who are not following basic precautions must take the blame
Avoid travel would be for us the public but it be ok for Piers Morgan to do so, it’s becoming more of a class war in my book, the poor get stuffed and those in higher places go higher.
As for the suggestion of locking down it’s probably because GMB or BBC told the person we should..
We are looking at covid on top of flu which is back with a vengance and the NHS nor any healthcare system will not be able to cope with that unless precautions are taken
Dont forget that the world health organization consider the pandemic ongoing and continue to advice basic precautions like masks, physical distancing, venitlation, avoiding travel and of course test test test.
none of us want a lock down this winter and a lock down would be very bad for bills but to avoid one we need to take these steps, basic steps in the summer like Germany are taking and stricter steps in the winter, balance the economy with health. if we have to lock down those who are not following basic precautions must take the blame
Unfortunately we can not guarantee that, im sure you are aware that the NHS barely makes it through winter as it is, we only got away with it last year because there was no flu as masks introduced far too late.
Yes Covid may not cause that many hospitalisations but if hospitals are 95% full in a normal winter and covid adds 10% where do you think that leaves us? and what if its even worse.
are you seriously saying that the NHS can cope with flu and covid in a wave together? covid may be over after this flu season but that depends on when a new variant comes out and we could be lucky with the timing or we could be unlucky. I admire your confidence but fear it is misplaced
That is why we need some basic measures in place before the winter:
-> If we put in place measures and find we did not need them, we have not lost anything
-> If we dont put in place measures and find out we did need them, it will be too late to avoid a lock down
Its been 2 and a half years and we know how to control cases, we all agree that lockdown should be history, but if we do not follow the science then it will not be.
Is it true that the World Health Organisation wish people to "avoid travel"? If so, why? What justification can they have, given Omicron is everywhere?
Germany does have lower Positivity Rate than countries where it is not compulsory, I think most people would want to wear one if they knew everyone else would aswell.
Better to keep it than to lose it and have to bring it back, We will have to bring it back this winter in UK Im sure
I attended an A&E department earlier in the week, which was absolute mask central (it seems it is a view the hospital has taken since mid-May)
It was absolutely infuriating trying to understand all the muffled voices and I had to ask a few clinical staff to repeat and clarify what they had said as I was struggling to understand them. Plus don't get me started about all those on the desk, behind glass/plastic who had their masks under their chin until a patient rocked up at the window.
We are looking at covid on top of flu which is back with a vengance and the NHS nor any healthcare system will not be able to cope with that unless precautions are taken
Dont forget that the world health organization consider the pandemic ongoing and continue to advice basic precautions like masks, physical distancing, venitlation, avoiding travel and of course test test test.
none of us want a lock down this winter and a lock down would be very bad for bills but to avoid one we need to take these steps, basic steps in the summer like Germany are taking and stricter steps in the winter, balance the economy with health. if we have to lock down those who are not following basic precautions must take the blame
I will focus in this post on one thing you mentioned. Physical distancing, also known as social distancing. The WHO will probably say we need to "Keep your distance" forever. Here in the UK at least(not so sure about other countries), near enough everyone has long given up on that nonsense! But to bring strict social distancing restrictions back in, like it was was from March 2020, is just not possible now. As these restrictions/measures are FAR too damaging to the economy and millions of people's mental health. Just imagine if all that was brought back again, and we'd have things like this all over again.....
> Buses, trains, coaches restricted to only about a THIRD of their usual capacity. With frequent buses showing "SORRY BUS FULL" on the destination displays when the bus is only a THIRD full(in some cases buses had "SORRY BUS FULL" on the destination display when there was only a few people on them!!) , and meaning potentially long waits to be able to board a bus, because you'd keep seeing a number of these "SORRY BUS FULL" buses passing and/or a while till the next particular bus you want is due.
> Queues of up to an hour or more to get into supermarkets! And ridiculous one-way systems once you're in there!
> Capacity in public toilets severely restricted "to aid social distancing", meaning queues of up to half hour or more!(some people will simply not be able to wait that long!). Public toilets in department stores and supermarkets taken out of use "to aid social distancing"!!! Public toilets at train stations "FOR KEY WORKERS ONLY. Please obtain a key from the ticket desk.", as was the case at Gloucester station to name just one!!! Why should Key Workers only be allowed to use the toilets??!! No regard atall for people who really need to use the toilets in a hurry!
> Gyms, leisure centres, spas closed, or for strictly members only, severely reduced capacity at all times, and require pre-booking timeslots to attend and a ridiculous short time limit of only about 45 minutes!!
> Theatres, pubs, restaurants, etc with much reduced capacity allowed. These businesses in particular lost a LOT of revenue, and many collapsed, due to this social distancing nonsense which dragged on for far too long!!!!
> Hideous "Keep your distance"(and similar wording) hazzard stickers and markings all over the place, making everywhere look like a crime scene. Absolutely hideous and NOT needed!! Not good for one's mental health seeing all this all over the place!!!
I could go on and on of all the problems those strict social distancing restrictions/measures caused. But I'll leave it there! They were though an absolutely dam NUISANCE!
I for one found the combination of mandatory face mask wearing AND social distancing restrictions dragging on for THIRTEEN very long months extremely extremely draining on my mental health. All these signage and PA announcements about "You MUST wear a face covering" and "Please keep your distance" here there and everywhere. Very very depressing and dystopian. Drove me absolutely mad and I was very unhappy in myself during all that time. Originally the end of these restrictions was supposed to be "By Easter" 2021. But that didn't happen. It was then supposed to be 19th May. That got pushed back to 21st June. Then that got pushed back again to 19th July. And that was looking in danger of being pushed back again when apparantly over 1,200 scientists wrote to Boris Johnson urging him to delay yet again the ending of restrictions. Thankfully that didn't happen and those restrictions were scrapped then. To be honest I think if the end of those particular restrictions were delayed yet again, then I just don't think I'd be able to take any more of that highly depressing nonsense and could well have done myself in. Those restrictions really were effecting me THAT much.
Social distancing restrictions were scrapped 12 and a half months ago now. And haven't been brought back since, even when the Omicron variant flared things up a lot with Covid cases, hospital admissions and deaths rising a lot during Winter 2021/2022. The UK will just not tolerate the huge damage to the economy and people's mental health if those restrictions were brought back again. I'm about 99.5% confident the government will not bring this back ever again now. Those bad old days of social distancing are long gone now I think.
I will focus in this post on one thing you mentioned. Physical distancing, also known as social distancing. The WHO will probably say we need to "Keep your distance" forever. Here in the UK at least(not so sure about other countries), near enough everyone has long given up on that nonsense! But to bring strict social distancing restrictions back in, like it was was from March 2020, is just not possible now. As these restrictions/measures are FAR too damaging to the economy and millions of people's mental health. Just imagine if all that was brought back again, and we'd have things like this all over again.....
> Buses, trains, coaches restricted to only about a THIRD of their usual capacity. With frequent buses showing "SORRY BUS FULL" on the destination displays when the bus is only a THIRD full(in some cases buses had "SORRY BUS FULL" on the destination display when there was only a few people on them!!) , and meaning potentially long waits to be able to board a bus, because you'd keep seeing a number of these "SORRY BUS FULL" buses passing and/or a while till the next particular bus you want is due.
> Queues of up to an hour or more to get into supermarkets! And ridiculous one-way systems once you're in there!
> Capacity in public toilets severely restricted "to aid social distancing", meaning queues of up to half hour or more!(some people will simply not be able to wait that long!). Public toilets in department stores and supermarkets taken out of use "to aid social distancing"!!! Public toilets at train stations "FOR KEY WORKERS ONLY. Please obtain a key from the ticket desk.", as was the case at Gloucester station to name just one!!! Why should Key Workers only be allowed to use the toilets??!! No regard atall for people who really need to use the toilets in a hurry!
> Gyms, leisure centres, spas closed, or for strictly members only, severely reduced capacity at all times, and require pre-booking timeslots to attend and a ridiculous short time limit of only about 45 minutes!!
> Theatres, pubs, restaurants, etc with much reduced capacity allowed. These businesses in particular lost a LOT of revenue, and many collapsed, due to this social distancing nonsense which dragged on for far too long!!!!
> Hideous "Keep your distance"(and similar wording) hazzard stickers and markings all over the place, making everywhere look like a crime scene. Absolutely hideous and NOT needed!! Not good for one's mental health seeing all this all over the place!!!
I could go on and on of all the problems those strict social distancing restrictions/measures caused. But I'll leave it there! They were though an absolutely dam NUISANCE!
I for one found the combination of mandatory face mask wearing AND social distancing restrictions dragging on for THIRTEEN very long months extremely extremely draining on my mental health. All these signage and PA announcements about "You MUST wear a face covering" and "Please keep your distance" here there and everywhere. Very very depressing and dystopian. Drove me absolutely mad and I was very unhappy in myself during all that time. Originally the end of these restrictions was supposed to be "By Easter" 2021. But that didn't happen. It was then supposed to be 19th May. That got pushed back to 21st June. Then that got pushed back again to 19th July. And that was looking in danger of being pushed back again when apparantly over 1,200 scientists wrote to Boris Johnson urging him to delay yet again the ending of restrictions. Thankfully that didn't happen and those restrictions were scrapped then. To be honest I think if the end of those particular restrictions were delayed yet again, then I just don't think I'd be able to take any more of that highly depressing nonsense and could well have done myself in. Those restrictions really were effecting me THAT much.
Social distancing restrictions were scrapped 12 and a half months ago now. And haven't been brought back since, even when the Omicron variant flared things up a lot with Covid cases, hospital admissions and deaths rising a lot during Winter 2021/2022. The UK will just not tolerate the huge damage to the economy and people's mental health if those restrictions were brought back again. I'm about 99.5% confident the government will not bring this back ever again now. Those bad old days of social distancing are long gone now I think.
Please don't worry yourself about the possibility of social distancing returning.
The government didn't bring it back in January this year, when the Omicron variant meat cases were at record levels, and the only thing they did was compulsory face nappies on the bus for a couple of months.
If they didn't bring back social distancing then, they are not going to do it now.
For one thing, the economy cannot take any more restrictions, especially with the current news about inflation and energy prices.
This winter, people will be far more concerned about paying all their bills than worrying about COVID, and the government will be hoping that things start to get better long before the next general election 2024.
Thanks for your words Duncanp. But I'm not atall worried social distancing will ever return again here in the UK. As I said, I'm about 99.5% confident it will never be brought back again.
When cases rise again(whenever that will be), we'll no doubt see the likes of Sky News and The Mirror, etc with their headlines such as "COVID restrictions MUST be reimposed IMMEDIATELY, experts warns" all over again. But it's highly highly unlikely they'll bring back social distancing restrictions again now. Though I'm not quite so confident that they won't bring back mandatory face muzzle restrictions again.
Really we need to get through the rest of summer, into autumn, winter and spring without ANY restrictions brought back atall. Then hopefully the tiny minority of people who keep calling that "Covid restictions MUST return" can finally get the message that Covid restrictions are NOT needed and will NOT be returning again, and they can shut up with their nonsense. And the press and media can finally stop promoting their nonsense too!
So we have the jabs to protect ourselves once it gets in, and some people have no symptoms, some mild and some severe, the jabs should stop the majority of us being "severe" and needing NHS treatment.
It's not just the elderly or younger week who get ill; even our very own PM went down with it and I don't think he was in the "vulnerable" category? I can't see how one would "lose" by taking the jab, whatever their condition. But it isn't compulsory, each to their own.
He is obese; there is a huge link between obesity and more severe outcomes. He was also unvaccinated at the time, as it was before the vaccine was made available.
Infection rates have been extremely high lately and yet few people are getting particularly ill. As our population immunity increases, and the virus continues to evolve and adapt for humans, it will almost certainly continue to get less pathogenic over time.
We are looking at covid on top of flu which is back with a vengance and the NHS nor any healthcare system will not be able to cope with that unless precautions are taken
You are free to take any precautions you wish, but there is no escaping the fact that common endemic viruses are going to circulate. Are you familiar with endemic equilibrium models?
Dont forget that the world health organization consider the pandemic ongoing and continue to advice basic precautions like masks, physical distancing, venitlation, avoiding travel and of course test test test.
How much would your proposals cost? Regarding masks, you are free to wear a protective tight-fitting FFP2/3 mask which will delay your exposure to viruses, or you can wear a flimsy loose fitting mask which doesn't do anything, or you can wear no mask. Everyone has that choice. As for physical distancing, are you proposing reducing capacities at venues, events etc? Are you proposing to close nightclubs? Are you prepared to pay for this? As for testing, how often do you propose people test? Who is going to pay for this? If someone tests positive but is not unwell, what then? Are you proposing they isolate and if so who is going to pay?
Sars-CoV-2 is not the only virus currently deemed to be causing a pandemic, by the way.
and a lock down would be very bad for bills but to avoid one we need to take these steps, basic steps in the summer like Germany are taking and stricter steps in the winter, balance the economy with health.
No, we do not need to do anything to avoid a lockdown as there will not be a lockdown. You claim we need to do what Germany are doing, but where is your evidence for saying we should follow Germany and not Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark or any other more sensible country?
Unfortunately we can not guarantee that, im sure you are aware that the NHS barely makes it through winter as it is, we only got away with it last year because there was no flu as masks introduced far too late.
In any case masks do not reduce infections; infections increased after mandates were brought in, and reduced after mandates were lifted. There is no evidence that countries like Germany, Portugal, Italy and Spain (which are mask-mad) are doing any better than countries like Sweden (who never mandated masks and never saw more than a tiny proportion of people wearing masks) or other countries which now see sense on masks (such as all other Scandinavian countries, most central European countries and pretty much all Eastern European countries).
If you believe you have any evidence that countries like Germany are doing better than countries like Switzerland, I'd like to see it!
Yes Covid may not cause that many hospitalisations but if hospitals are 95% full in a normal winter and covid adds 10% where do you think that leaves us? and what if its even worse.
are you seriously saying that the NHS can cope with flu and covid in a wave together? covid may be over after this flu season but that depends on when a new variant comes out and we could be lucky with the timing or we could be unlucky. I admire your confidence but fear it is misplaced
That is why we need some basic measures in place before the winter:
-> If we put in place measures and find we did not need them, we have not lost anything
-> If we dont put in place measures and find out we did need them, it will be too late to avoid a lock down
Its been 2 and a half years and we know how to control cases, we all agree that lockdown should be history, but if we do not follow the science then it will not be.
The science? There is one Scientific viewpoint?! Really? So you are arguing that Germany is following "the" Science while all its neighbours are not? This is a joke, right?
RailUK was launched on 6th June 2005 - so we've hit 20 years being the UK's most popular railway community! Read more and celebrate this milestone with us in this thread!
