• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
4,493
This winter, people will be far more concerned about paying all their bills than worrying about COVID, and the government will be hoping that things start to get better long before the next general election 2024.
That is definitely the case for me. Along with rising interest rates though fortunately I have a fixed rate mortgage so I don't need to worry about that for a few years.

The NHS can never "cope" in any winter depending on how you define "cope".
It can barely cope now. Try calling for an ambulance. Or booking an appointment with a dentist. No idea what the solution is but it isn't masks.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Mikw

Member
Joined
20 Apr 2022
Messages
405
Location
Leicester
We are looking at covid on top of flu which is back with a vengance and the NHS nor any healthcare system will not be able to cope with that unless precautions are taken

Dont forget that the world health organization consider the pandemic ongoing and continue to advice basic precautions like masks, physical distancing, venitlation, avoiding travel and of course test test test.

none of us want a lock down this winter and a lock down would be very bad for bills but to avoid one we need to take these steps, basic steps in the summer like Germany are taking and stricter steps in the winter, balance the economy with health. if we have to lock down those who are not following basic precautions must take the blame
That's effectively it. We've got precariously close to restrictions during a bad flu seasons.

As you say, nobody wants a lockdown, but people still don't seem to get one thing. It's not whether anyone wants restrictions, this isn't what will make them happen, it's purely a metric of the NHS's ability not be overwhelmed as there is little spare capacity.

Some will be triggered by any mention of restrictions, but - to be clear - i'm not advocating that, i don't want that, nobody wants that.

But it's not a case of "it will never happen", nobody can ever say that, especially people like us on a rail message board, we don't matter. We all lost our freedom of movement and i expect many of us thought that would never happen.

And the bidding process for Charter Cities has already started - where there's no obligation for human and worker's rights at all. We can all say "that will never happen", but it's already being embarked on.

The "will of the people " doesn't actually mean anything. Unless we do a "France" and take to the streets, but that's been made much harder with the policing bill passed recently.
 
Last edited:

MikeWM

Established Member
Joined
26 Mar 2010
Messages
4,382
Location
Ely
That's effectively it. We've got precariously close to restrictions during a bad flu seasons.

? Prior to 2020, not a single (sane) person was calling for any restrictions on healthy people, even in the worst flu years.

We got the stories in the papers every year - indeed, it was part of the 2019 election campaign, which has now been largely forgotten - but we'd come to accept that NHS capacity was clearly inadequate and had been for many years, and just hoped we'd not be unlucky enough to get ill and need it while it was at capacity.

One other thing I'd add - I think an awful lot of people are far less positively disposed towards the NHS now than they were in 2020, for a wide variety of reasons, though probably primarily the fairly dreadful way most GP surgeries are now run. I don't think 'do this to save the NHS' would be remotely as popular a message as it was a mere 2 years ago. It doesn't matter whether the NHS is at capacity or not if there is the perception it won't be there for you when you need it.
 

Mikw

Member
Joined
20 Apr 2022
Messages
405
Location
Leicester
? Prior to 2020, not a single (sane) person was calling for any restrictions on healthy people, even in the worst flu years.

We got the stories in the papers every year - indeed, it was part of the 2019 election campaign, which has now been largely forgotten - but we'd come to accept that NHS capacity was clearly inadequate and had been for many years, and just hoped we'd not be unlucky enough to get ill and need it while it was at capacity.

One other thing I'd add - I think an awful lot of people are far less positively disposed towards the NHS now than they were in 2020, for a wide variety of reasons, though probably primarily the fairly dreadful way most GP surgeries are now run. I don't think 'do this to save the NHS' would be remotely as popular a message as it was a mere 2 years ago. It doesn't matter whether the NHS is at capacity or not if there is the perception it won't be there for you when you need it.
I volunteer for the NHS and i can assure you, plans are drawn up for every single time it looks like there's going to be a bad flu season. Restrictions are very much part of this.

I don't want restrictions, you don't, nobody does.

What i'd like is get rid of the "Better care together" plan, where services are cut down, ITU capacity is reduced further, and hospitals are closed, with renovated sites being trumpeted as "new" hospitals.

What i'd like would be honest information and debate rather than the nudge unit being in charge of messaging. What i'd like is an informed population rather than one fed on soundbites and spin.
 

MikeWM

Established Member
Joined
26 Mar 2010
Messages
4,382
Location
Ely
I volunteer for the NHS and i can assure you, plans are drawn up for every single time it looks like there's going to be a bad flu season. Restrictions are very much part of this.

I don't want restrictions, you don't, nobody does.

I'm not sure if you're talking about restrictions *within the NHS* or on the general population. The post you replied to was very much talking about restrictions on the general healthy population (masks, distancing, avoiding travel). But within the NHS, well yes, that's part of what we heard almost every winter, patients stuck on trollies, surgeries cancelled, etc. etc.

What i'd like is get rid of the "Better care together" plan, where services are cut down, ITU capacity is reduced further, and hospitals are closed, with renovated sites being trumpeted as "new" hospitals.

What i'd like would be honest information and debate rather than the nudge unit being in charge of messaging. What i'd like is an informed population rather than one fed on soundbites and spin.

Well, I'd certainly agree with all that! I've been arguing on here for increased NHS capacity for at least two years. It simply doesn't make any sense to restrict the entire population of the country and destroy the economy and the mental health of the nation, rather than reverse continuing cuts and add more capacity. I can somewhat understand it as a very short-term measure in an emergency if there are no better options available, but we're almost 30 months into this now and precisely nothing has been done.
 

Richard Scott

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2018
Messages
3,673
I volunteer for the NHS and i can assure you, plans are drawn up for every single time it looks like there's going to be a bad flu season. Restrictions are very much part of this.

I don't want restrictions, you don't, nobody does.

What i'd like is get rid of the "Better care together" plan, where services are cut down, ITU capacity is reduced further, and hospitals are closed, with renovated sites being trumpeted as "new" hospitals.

What i'd like would be honest information and debate rather than the nudge unit being in charge of messaging. What i'd like is an informed population rather than one fed on soundbites and spin.
The NHS runs the country does it? May have appeared that way in 2020 but sorry to say that the government make decisions about restrictions not the NHS.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
? Prior to 2020, not a single (sane) person was calling for any restrictions on healthy people, even in the worst flu years.

We got the stories in the papers every year - indeed, it was part of the 2019 election campaign, which has now been largely forgotten - but we'd come to accept that NHS capacity was clearly inadequate and had been for many years, and just hoped we'd not be unlucky enough to get ill and need it while it was at capacity.

One other thing I'd add - I think an awful lot of people are far less positively disposed towards the NHS now than they were in 2020, for a wide variety of reasons, though probably primarily the fairly dreadful way most GP surgeries are now run. I don't think 'do this to save the NHS' would be remotely as popular a message as it was a mere 2 years ago. It doesn't matter whether the NHS is at capacity or not if there is the perception it won't be there for you when you need it.

The latter point is well made. People did what they thought was their bit to help the NHS in 2020, and in return now find they get treated like a bit of dirt on the shoe should they need to actually use the NHS - GP surgeries at any rate, which are of course the front door to the service in most instances.

Whilst I’m sure there are many people who could be swayed by a “save the NHS” message (especially if accompanied by some nice time off work like in 2020), it certainly wouldn’t get the swell of support seen in 2020. Likewise people will ask the legitimate question as to what has been done to provide capacity for treating Covid as “business as usual”. Given the silence from both the government and NHS itself on that subject, the answer to the question appears to be nothing.

It’s pretty rank that we’ve heard more from the government about Johnson’s obsessive pet hatred of nasty union barons than what they plan to do in respect of the NHS. In fact apart from sporadic nasty stuff from Grant Shapps, it feels like any attempt at carrying out serious functions of government has more or less evaporated into thin air, and been like that for some while.
 
Last edited:

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
6,865
The science? There is one Scientific viewpoint?! Really? So you are arguing that Germany is following "the" Science while all its neighbours are not? This is a joke, right?

"Follow the science", that's a Matt Hancock one isn't it? Likewise "Covidiot", I first heard that come out of him if I remember right.

Of course he absolutely never got anywhere even close to breaking the restrictions. ;)

That's effectively it. We've got precariously close to restrictions during a bad flu seasons.

As you say, nobody wants a lockdown, but people still don't seem to get one thing. It's not whether anyone wants restrictions, this isn't what will make them happen, it's purely a metric of the NHS's ability not be overwhelmed as there is little spare capacity.
If the NHS has problems, it needs to be fixed. We can't go on with the argument "the NHS can't cope therefore we must have restrictions" line forever. If it can't cope, when it could cope previously with, say, a bad flu season, it should be made more robust and resilient. Whether that should be through additional funding or through fixing internal management problems, though, I don't know.
 
Last edited:

duncanp

Established Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
4,856
The NHS runs the country does it? May have appeared that way in 2020 but sorry to say that the government make decisions about restrictions not the NHS.

I think the poster here is referring to restrictions within the NHS in response to flu (ie. cancelled operations, closing wards ...etc.) rather than COVID style resrictions (ie. masks, social distancing ..etc).

Or at least I hope that is what the poster means.

Because if they mean that the NHS is planning for COVID style restrictions just to get us through a bad flu season they can go and take a running jump.
 

Howardh

Established Member
Joined
17 May 2011
Messages
8,120
I had a call from my hospital yesterday, my last glaucoma appointment was either before covid, or at the very start, so some time has passed and it's supposed to be an annual check-up (I also get checked by the optition); they told me they were now "catching up" - I thought they'd forgotten all about me! At least they said I can drive there, no need for their eye-drops!

So I hope all those of you with routine check-ups are getting those appontments now!
 

Cdd89

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2017
Messages
1,451
In the interests of balance (since the BBC rightly comes in for a lot of heat on here!), I note the following article on the front page:

Covid infections are continuing to fall in the UK, dropping by more than half a million in a week, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
Roughly 2.6 million people had the virus in the week to 26 July, compared to 3.2 million the previous week.
The number of people in hospital with the virus is also decreasing.
But experts warn there is still a lot of Covid around, with data estimating one in 25 people in England currently have the virus.
Vaccines are helping protect people from severe illness, however.

While I would take issue with some assertions within it, I'm pleased they're reporting movement in both directions.
 

Enthusiast

Member
Joined
18 Mar 2019
Messages
1,043
So you are arguing that Germany is following "the" Science while all its neighbours are not? This is a joke, right?
I think we will all come to that conclusion hopefully sooner rather than later. I already have.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,429
Location
Yorkshire
I think we will all come to that conclusion hopefully sooner rather than later. I already have.
And what evidence do you expect to see to demonstrate this?

Are you thinking SARS-CoV-2 will be eliminated in Germany, or alternatively are you expecting endemic equilibrium to be delayed in Germany, or something else?

Edit: seen message below, no problem, sorry for the misunderstanding!

That's effectively it. We've got precariously close to restrictions during a bad flu seasons.
Do you have any source stating restrictions were being considered?
As you say, nobody wants a lockdown, but people still don't seem to get one thing. It's not whether anyone wants restrictions, this isn't what will make them happen, it's purely a metric of the NHS's ability not be overwhelmed as there is little spare capacity.

Some will be triggered by any mention of restrictions, but - to be clear - i'm not advocating that, i don't want that, nobody wants that.

But it's not a case of "it will never happen", nobody can ever say that, especially people like us on a rail message board, we don't matter. We all lost our freedom of movement and i expect many of us thought that would never happen.

And the bidding process for Charter Cities has already started - where there's no obligation for human and worker's rights at all. We can all say "that will never happen", but it's already being embarked on.

The "will of the people " doesn't actually mean anything. Unless we do a "France" and take to the streets, but that's been made much harder with the policing bill passed recently.
So you keep saying.

But a lockdown would be unaffordable (how would we pay for it?) and I think many people would simply not follow it.

I certainly wouldn't comply and I know many others wouldn't either.

I think you need to give up this idea that restrictions could be imposed; even if they theoretically were, there would be mass flouting of any such rules.
 
Last edited:

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,135
And what evidence do you expect to see to demonstrate this?

Are you thinking SARS-CoV-2 will be eliminated in Germany, or alternatively are you expecting endemic equilibrium to be delayed in Germany, or something else?


Do you have any source stating restrictions were being considered?

So you keep saying.

But a lockdown would be unaffordable (how would we pay for it?) and I think many people would simply not follow it.

I certainly wouldn't comply and I know many others wouldn't either.

I think you need to give up this idea that restrictions could be imposed; even if they theoretically were, there would be mass flouting of any such rules.
I wouldn't comply either they have squandered every last scrap of goodwill I had for the Covid cause. If the NHS still can't cope after over 2 years if this then it needs reform.
 

Enthusiast

Member
Joined
18 Mar 2019
Messages
1,043
And what evidence do you expect to see to demonstrate this?

etc.etc.
Sorry, Yorkie, we're at cross purposes (and it's my fault for the way I quoted you). It's only this bit I hope we all concur on quickly:

This is a joke, right?
Sorry for the confusion. I'm not sure if betraveler is a wind up merchant or is serious. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt by deciding he just having a laugh.
 

duncanp

Established Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
4,856
I see the I newspaper has the following headline today

New omicron jab to fight autumn COVID wave

This assumes that there IS going to be an autumn COVID wave in the first place.

You cannot deny the possibility of a new "wave" of COVID once schools and universities return and the weather gets colder. but it is by no means certain that such a wave will happen, and even if it does the size of such a wave may be relatively small, given that we are just recovering from a summer "wave".

But putting things in context doesn't make such good headlines, does it?
 

kez19

Established Member
Joined
15 May 2020
Messages
2,038
Location
Dundee
I see the I newspaper has the following headline today



This assumes that there IS going to be an autumn COVID wave in the first place.

You cannot deny the possibility of a new "wave" of COVID once schools and universities return and the weather gets colder. but it is by no means certain that such a wave will happen, and even if it does the size of such a wave may be relatively small, given that we are just recovering from a summer "wave".

But putting things in context doesn't make such good headlines, does it?

But wait what about the flu wave? I see media favour COVID more than your usual winter bugs that go about. Media again heads in the sand as usual.

Was it to be expected? For me yes as that’s all the media seem to talk about.
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,613
Location
First Class
I see the I newspaper has the following headline today



This assumes that there IS going to be an autumn COVID wave in the first place.

You cannot deny the possibility of a new "wave" of COVID once schools and universities return and the weather gets colder. but it is by no means certain that such a wave will happen, and even if it does the size of such a wave may be relatively small, given that we are just recovering from a summer "wave".

But putting things in context doesn't make such good headlines, does it?

We'll be due a new variant by then, which may not even be an Omicron sub-variant....
 

Howardh

Established Member
Joined
17 May 2011
Messages
8,120
Was in Bolton market hall and over the radio that a stall was playing I heard an ad/message that "covid can stay in your body unknown for long periods and then" at which point I was far enough away to stop listening. So I would like to know (a) what scientific basis there is for the statement and (b) then...what??? Has anyone else heard this "ad"?
 

Class 33

Established Member
Joined
14 Aug 2009
Messages
2,362
I see the I newspaper has the following headline today



This assumes that there IS going to be an autumn COVID wave in the first place.

You cannot deny the possibility of a new "wave" of COVID once schools and universities return and the weather gets colder. but it is by no means certain that such a wave will happen, and even if it does the size of such a wave may be relatively small, given that we are just recovering from a summer "wave".

But putting things in context doesn't make such good headlines, does it?

The I newspaper is a bloody nuisance! They seem to definitely WANT Covid restrictions to return! The amount of their front page headlines I've seen over the months promoting the need for return of Covid restrictions and even lockdowns! Looking at the front page of their paper tomorrow it says:

The government must be prepared to bring back compulsory masks on public transport and offer all adults a booster jab this autumn to prevent a winter wave, Tony Blair warns.

Former prime minister calls for greater protection for NHS as it faces "worst winter crisis in history" with millions still on waiting lists and A & E waiting times near an all time high.

Whilst I don't have a problem with all adults being offered a booster jab this month. But the return of compulsory masks on public transport AGAIN?? NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! We really do NOT need that pointless nonsense brought back EVER again!! So Tony Blair and all others who want compulsory masks brought back, just SHUT UP!!!! Hopefully Liz Truss/the new prime minister will ignore these such people with their NONSENSE demands.
 

350401

Member
Joined
5 Feb 2009
Messages
275
It’s not just public transport; the call is for masks in all indoor public spaces - “In a more controversial proposal, the paper says that “the strategic implementation of mask mandates should be considered for this autumn and winter”, with members of the public legally required to wear a face covering on public transport and other enclosed public spaces in the event that there is a wave of Covid hospitalisations or a dangerous new variant”. Basically back to December 21. The article also says it is the job of society to reduce demand on the NHS. No. Just no.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
It’s not just public transport; the call is for masks in all indoor public spaces - “In a more controversial proposal, the paper says that “the strategic implementation of mask mandates should be considered for this autumn and winter”, with members of the public legally required to wear a face covering on public transport and other enclosed public spaces in the event that there is a wave of Covid hospitalisations or a dangerous new variant”. Basically back to December 21. The article also says it is the job of society to reduce demand on the NHS. No. Just no.

I think the latter has already happened, my GP surgery is now like a ghost town. It’s been made so difficult and unpleasant to use that people aren’t bothering, either going to A&E or suffering in silence. A shameful state of affairs.
 

Reliablebeam

Member
Joined
14 Jun 2017
Messages
247
The I newspaper is a bloody nuisance! They seem to definitely WANT Covid restrictions to return! The amount of their front page headlines I've seen over the months promoting the need for return of Covid restrictions and even lockdowns! Looking at the front page of their paper tomorrow it says:



Whilst I don't have a problem with all adults being offered a booster jab this month. But the return of compulsory masks on public transport AGAIN?? NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! We really do NOT need that pointless nonsense brought back EVER again!! So Tony Blair and all others who want compulsory masks brought back, just SHUT UP!!!! Hopefully Liz Truss/the new prime minister will ignore these such people with their NONSENSE demands.
The i paper is particulary bad for this stuff, more so than the Guardian. If you follow Twitter you can see self confessed smug mumsnetter Jane Merrick seems to be their worst offender. That tallies with my personal experience, the 30/40 something Mumsnet brigade really love some good covid restrictions....

Actual likelyhood given both of the candidates for Tory leadership must be near zero...
 

MikeWM

Established Member
Joined
26 Mar 2010
Messages
4,382
Location
Ely
Blair strikes me as someone who wants attention and to believe he is still relevant. But he isn't relevant and doesn't deserve the attention. Best to just ignore this nonsense.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Blair strikes me as someone who wants attention and to believe he is still relevant. But he isn't relevant and doesn't deserve the attention. Best to just ignore this nonsense.

Am I misremembering, or was Blair all anti-restrictions a little while back? As you say, attempting to assert relevance.

I can’t see him having allowed things to drift as Johnson did. There would be been an impassioned “we need to get through this” speech at some point.

As an aside, is it me or does Blair look more and more like the devil every time his face appears?
 
Last edited:

kez19

Established Member
Joined
15 May 2020
Messages
2,038
Location
Dundee
The I newspaper is a bloody nuisance! They seem to definitely WANT Covid restrictions to return! The amount of their front page headlines I've seen over the months promoting the need for return of Covid restrictions and even lockdowns! Looking at the front page of their paper tomorrow it says:



Whilst I don't have a problem with all adults being offered a booster jab this month. But the return of compulsory masks on public transport AGAIN?? NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! We really do NOT need that pointless nonsense brought back EVER again!! So Tony Blair and all others who want compulsory masks brought back, just SHUT UP!!!! Hopefully Liz Truss/the new prime minister will ignore these such people with their NONSENSE demands.

Why are we listening to Tony Blair all of a sudden? I’m guessing media have forgiven him and he is a saint now? No wonder I don’t follow the uk media as I use too it’s like the media have their favourites for advice

As for this whole mask charade again, the plebs wear them but I bet he won’t (or if he did it be for the cameras then off within 5 seconds), I guess it’s true the media and politicians never learn from mistakes but will happily go along with it again.. (if this doesn’t make people realise then nothing will sadly).

Blair strikes me as someone who wants attention and to believe he is still relevant. But he isn't relevant and doesn't deserve the attention. Best to just ignore this nonsense.

I agree but the media seem to want his attention (or vice versa).

Blair strikes me as someone who wants attention and to believe he is still relevant. But he isn't relevant and doesn't deserve the attention. Best to just ignore this nonsense.

His timing a few months back struck me as odd (sure interview was either BBC/Sky or ITV), he magically appeared looking like a ghoul and media fawning over him (what’s with media and having cosy chats?), seemed to me as if media are more welcoming him back to centre stage and what happened in the past is forgotten about or wiped from memory.
 
Last edited:

duncanp

Established Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
4,856
The article also says it is the job of society to reduce demand on the NHS.

What a complete and utter load of bovine excrement.

You might just as well say that people shouldn't play contact sports like rugby, just in case they get injured and have to go to A&E, thereby putting the NHS "under pressure".

Can anyone ever remember a time when the NHS wasn't "under pressure", everything was running smoothly, and you could get seen whenever you needed to be seen?
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,429
Location
Yorkshire
Tony Blair is an attention seeker who is trying to compensate for the fact his reputation was ruined.

He has completely misjudged the mood of the population (again) and is only making himself even less popular.

If masks were so popular, more people would be wearing them.

If mask mandates were effective at reducing transmission, we would see much lower Covid rates in mask-mad countries like Spain, Italy, Germany and Portugal, compared to countries which ditched masks a long time ago.

People like Tony Blair don't seem to understand that the virus cannot be suppressed and that the only way forward is to live with this virus in the same way that we live with similar viruses which caused pandemics in the past.

Am I worried people will listen to Tony Blair? No, not at all.
 

kez19

Established Member
Joined
15 May 2020
Messages
2,038
Location
Dundee
It’s not just public transport; the call is for masks in all indoor public spaces - “In a more controversial proposal, the paper says that “the strategic implementation of mask mandates should be considered for this autumn and winter”, with members of the public legally required to wear a face covering on public transport and other enclosed public spaces in the event that there is a wave of Covid hospitalisations or a dangerous new variant”. Basically back to December 21. The article also says it is the job of society to reduce demand on the NHS. No. Just no.

What does it mean as a society to reduce demand on the NHS? Is the NHS here for the public or not? If it is not then it’s time to let it go (I rather we still have the NHS), but if that’s the attitude of it then in the end it will be the end of the NHS.

Also let’s also point out it’s speculation and again we should know by now the media need to start frothing over something to wind the public up (again let’s scrutinise the media here, they are too having far too much say in our lives let alone what comes across as trying to dictate what the public should do in the autumn/winter whilst this lot quite possibly have a jolly themselves). I said this before people have a right to criticise all politicians (not just one), they broke the rules but let’s also ask the same question who else in the media circles partied/broke the rules (we seem to be missing that part of the puzzle whilst the media are still going after the Conservatives and Boris I wonder why?, could he bring the media down too if he chose too?)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top