"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

[Hans]

How much of that was really in Sunak's power given that Johnson seemed to just unilaterally impose restrictions whenever he felt like it without consulting anyone or following any democratic process?

There were always the presumptions the cabinet had agreed. I doubt it was Johnson who unilaterally agreed, more Witless and Valance, greatly assisted by Hancock. Johnson is not innocent by any means but I do think the treasury is a powerful department, if Sunak wanted everyone to believe he was against the restrictions, he should have resigned, told the PM to sack him and most importantly voted against the restrictions when there was voting - he did none of them.

 

[350401]

The Times is once again calling for masks and social distancing ahead of the winter; as a paper it is very pro restrictions, representing as it does the white collar WFH zoomocracy - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-infections-study-increases-calls-for-masks-vrbcjcr8t -

Two thirds of people with mild Covid-19 are still infectious five days after their symptoms begin, according to a study.

The research revealed people spread the virus for longer than previously thought, contrary to NHS guidance which states “many will no longer be infectious to others after five days”.

It comes amid renewed calls for Covid restrictions to be reimposed ahead of winter to help relieve pressure on hospitals which are experiencing the worst waiting times on record.

Tony Blair’s Institute for Global Change urged the government to consider “mandatory mask wearing on public transport and most indoor public venues” to reduce NHS pressures.

And the World Health Organisation told people to “wear a mask and maintain social distancing”, adding: “Learning to live with Covid-19 does not mean pretending it’s not there”.

But a study by Imperial College London suggests this five-day period is not long enough to cut transmission. In the first real-world study of its kind, experts monitored 57 people at home after they were exposed to Covid-19 to test how long they remained infectious.”

The mask activists are starting very early this year, no doubt this pressure will get worse as we go into autumn. I never thought I’d say this, but thank God for Liz Truss - she may be a headbanger but at least she is unlikely to pander to these people. Hopefully by GE24, we will have 2 winters without restrictions, so it’d be very hard for any incoming labour / coalition government to impose masks.

 

[duncanp]

The Times is once again calling for masks and social distancing ahead of the winter; as a paper it is very pro restrictions, representing as it does the white collar WFH zoomocracy - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-infections-study-increases-calls-for-masks-vrbcjcr8t -



The mask activists are starting very early this year, no doubt this pressure will get worse as we go into autumn. I never thought I’d say this, but thank God for Liz Truss - she may be a headbanger but at least she is unlikely to pander to these people. Hopefully by GE24, we will have 2 winters without restrictions, so it’d be very hard for any incoming labour / coalition government to impose masks.

I see that old political has been Tony Blair is one of the people calling for compulsory face nappies in order to ".. reduce NHS pressures...."

This should ensure that face nappies are NOT made compulsory this winter, as Liz Truss will not want to be seen to have her agenda set by such an odious little creep.

But it was always going to happen that the maskivists and locktivists would crawl out from their summer hibernation and try and impose their views on the rest of society, who will be far more concerned about keeping warm and putting food on the table this winter.

 

[yorksrob]

The Times is once again calling for masks and social distancing ahead of the winter; as a paper it is very pro restrictions, representing as it does the white collar WFH zoomocracy - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-infections-study-increases-calls-for-masks-vrbcjcr8t -



The mask activists are starting very early this year, no doubt this pressure will get worse as we go into autumn. I never thought I’d say this, but thank God for Liz Truss - she may be a headbanger but at least she is unlikely to pander to these people. Hopefully by GE24, we will have 2 winters without restrictions, so it’d be very hard for any incoming labour / coalition government to impose masks.

The Times went downhill when it became a tabloid.

 

[DustyBin]

The Times is once again calling for masks and social distancing ahead of the winter; as a paper it is very pro restrictions, representing as it does the white collar WFH zoomocracy - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-infections-study-increases-calls-for-masks-vrbcjcr8t -



The mask activists are starting very early this year, no doubt this pressure will get worse as we go into autumn. I never thought I’d say this, but thank God for Liz Truss - she may be a headbanger but at least she is unlikely to pander to these people. Hopefully by GE24, we will have 2 winters without restrictions, so it’d be very hard for any incoming labour / coalition government to impose masks.

Unbelievable (well, almost).

They just won’t let it go will they? Covid is over as a public health emergency, we’ve just been through a “wave” apparently with no widespread ill effects. People have far more important things to worry about. When will these authoritarian nut jobs get it into their thick heads?!?!

 

[Razorblades]

They just won’t let it go will they? Covid is over as a public health emergency, we’ve just been through a “wave” apparently with no widespread ill effects. People have far more important things to worry about. When will these authoritarian nut jobs get it into their thick heads?!?!

BBC Cumbria local news just now propagating yet more fear ('the virus spreads far more quickly now we're all mixing freely again...') to cajole people into getting jabbed again. No vaccine I've ever heard of requires a does of it every few months; ever feel you've been cheated?

 

[DustyBin]

BBC Cumbria local news just now propagating yet more fear ('the virus spreads far more quickly now we're all mixing freely again...') to cajole people into getting jabbed again. No vaccine I've ever heard of requires a does of it every few months; ever feel you've been cheated?

No.

On a serious note, there comes a point at which the question needs to be asked: Are the pharmaceuticals simply profiteering?

 

[Razorblades]

On a serious note, there comes a point at which the question needs to be asked: Are the pharmaceuticals simply profiteering?

I think that's a very fair question. And those in positions of 'authority,' including 'public servants' should be made to declare where they have an interest, by which I mean shares in such companies.

 

[kez19]

No.

On a serious note, there comes a point at which the question needs to be asked: Are the pharmaceuticals simply profiteering?

Or the big question what are the media getting out of this? We seem to be ignoring the media side of this (I know now we are slating them), but I think it’s time we find out how much media has been influenced by the pharmaceutical companies too as well as governments interest.

 

[kristiang85]

Can't these people see that in the latest wave it followed the pattern of all others, despite no restrictions whatsoever?

I just don't get why they are so obsessed with masks. Do they have shares in Chinese mask producers or something?

 

[Controller1701]

To be fair to Sunak, the blame doesn't lie with him for introducing the restrictions which made furlough a practical necessity, the blame there is with Johnson.

Lets put the blame where it belongs, and here it belongs in two places.

First place of blame - The right honourable member for Uxbridge (Mr Johnson) for bringing in the restrictions
Second place of blame - A certain resident of No 11 Downing Street. There was nothing to say that he had to bring in furlough. He decided to bring in furlough

 

[Dent]

Lets put the blame where it belongs, and here it belongs in two places.

First place of blame - The right honourable member for Uxbridge (Mr Johnson) for bringing in the restrictions
Second place of blame - A certain resident of No 11 Downing Street. There was nothing to say that he had to bring in furlough. He decided to bring in furlough

Given that the only alternative once restrictions were introduced would have been to leave vast swathes of the population with no income with which to pay for basic necessities such as food and shelter, leading to mass homelessness and starvation, providing people with support to enable them to actually survive was a practical necessity. Are you really saying that someone should be subject to blame for not making vast swathes of the population destitute and leaving them to starve to death or die of exposure?

 

[kristiang85]

Given that the only alternative once restrictions were introduced would have been to leave vast swathes of the population with no income with which to pay for basic necessities such as food and shelter, leading to mass homelessness and starvation, providing people with support to enable them to actually survive was a practical necessity. Are you really saying that someone should be subject to blame for not making vast swathes of the population destitute and leaving them to starve to death or die of exposure?

Exactly. For lockdown to work, it needed furlough, otherwise people would have had a choice of breaking rules or going hungry.

 

[Hans]

Lets put the blame where it belongs, and here it belongs in two places.

First place of blame - The right honourable member for Uxbridge (Mr Johnson) for bringing in the restrictions
Second place of blame - A certain resident of No 11 Downing Street. There was nothing to say that he had to bring in furlough. He decided to bring in furlough

I believe there are a few other people who can be added to the list, in addition to the media for their hysteria and over reaction.

Given that the only alternative once restrictions were introduced would have been to leave vast swathes of the population with no income with which to pay for basic necessities such as food and shelter, leading to mass homelessness and starvation, providing people with support to enable them to actually survive was a practical necessity. Are you really saying that someone should be subject to blame for not making vast swathes of the population destitute and leaving them to starve to death or die of exposure?

Yes Sunak is to blame, I posted yesterday to say he should not have agreed to furlough, he should have advised the restrictions would lead to the dire economic situation the country finds itself in. The restrictions should never have happened, therefore furlough should never have been needed. I personally think Sunak is more to blame than the PM, the PM makes the final decision but cabinet members, especially in such an important department as the treasury, should have provided information to the PM to facilitate the decision process. The treasury either did not, or provided information which was a lie (the country could financially survive restrictions), irrespective of which one it was, they should be blamed as much as the PM.

 

[Cdd89]

Yes Sunak is to blame, I posted yesterday to say he should not have agreed to furlough

While I agree, don’t forget that lockdowns (and therefore furlough) were initially mooted to last a few weeks. I accepted the initial lockdown on that basis, i.e. a brief period of constraint to reduce the height of the peak. It may be that Sunak was similarly taken in; after which each of lockdown and furlough would drive public opinion toward the indefinite extension of the other.

(FWIW, if I trusted public health authorities, I would accept further restrictions during peaks (2-4 weeks) of future pandemics; however, as the nonsense about ‘lockdown early to have shorter lockdowns’ / ‘cases need to be almost zero before we unlock’ inevitably takes hold, which implies we should be locking down without reference to what the natural peak would be [which I fundamentally disagree with], I can no longer trust any restrictions of that type and would ignore any such restrictions on the basis that they cannot be trusted to be time limited).

 

[Hans]

Sunak not only readily agreed to furlough, he was very anti providing any support for the self employed. It was only the efforts of some which ensured he eventually gave in but still excluded small company directors. In giving in, he stated that once this was all over the self employed would have to pay extra (not verbatim). He was playing politics when he should have been doing his job of protecting the financial interests of the country.

I am surprised people really thought the restrictions were only for a few weeks, the amount of legislation, the planning and actions of many from the very beginning were a clear indication there was no intent other than to keep the restrictions for a considerable length of time.

The restrictions were wrong from the very beginning and did more damage than any virus could ever do, the main problem was too many people were (and still are) unable to accept they were wrong, hence the continued call for various restrictions to be reintroduced or the ongoing virtual signalling of mask wearing, especially within medical settings even when there is no legal requirement for them to be worn.

Every year winter respiratory viruses happen, every year thousands of people die, every year the NHS states it is overwhelmed, coronaviruses continually occur with differing strains, none of this will ever change and yet a coronavirus appeared which through hysteria and over reaction, the actions taked created the most serious economic situation this country has seen for many years, the casualities, including deaths from this situation will far exceed those caused by covid.

 

[MikeWM]

The restrictions were wrong from the very beginning and did more damage than any virus could ever do, the main problem was too many people were (and still are) unable to accept they were wrong, hence the continued call for various restrictions to be reintroduced or the ongoing virtual signalling of mask wearing, especially within medical settings even when there is no legal requirement for them to be worn.

In part, it is a version of the sunk costs fallacy at this point, and indeed has been for rather some time.

The majority of people consciously need to believe that all the rubbish that was imposed on them, and that they imposed on themselves, was for some purpose. Hence they prefer to believe there was some point to it all, the alternative being both to admit they themselves wasted great time and effort on something utterly pointless, and that the authorities were not honest in what they told them and forced them to do. I can see why they would prefer that, 'ignorance is bliss' after all. To use two other famous quotes:

“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
"The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it."

In concert with that, the media and the government and the 'public health experts' have to continue to go along with the narrative for all the same reasons. While we appear to have a largely docile population, I'm not at all sure these institutions would survive admitting 'well, we wrecked the economy, imprisoned you in your homes, kept you from seeing loved ones when they were dying, stopped you seeing your friends, prevented you doing your job or continuing your business, forced you to wear a piece of cloth over your face, and caused a vast amount of physical and mental damage - and actually it didn't achieve what we said it would. Oops, sorry, silly us'. Certainly they don't deserve to.

So, we're in a very nasty stalemate, where I suspect most of us now know these things aren't true, at least subconsciously, but no-one in authority dares to admit it.

 

[Eyersey468]

The authorities will never admit that they got it wrong, the official narrative will always be we had no choice to impose restrictions.

 

[Hans]

In part, it is a version of the sunk costs fallacy at this point, and indeed has been for rather some time.

The majority of people consciously need to believe that all the rubbish that was imposed on them, and that they imposed on themselves, was for some purpose. Hence they prefer to believe there was some point to it all, the alternative being both to admit they themselves wasted great time and effort on something utterly pointless, and that the authorities were not honest in what they told them and forced them to do. I can see why they would prefer that, 'ignorance is bliss' after all. To use two other famous quotes:

“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
"The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it."

In concert with that, the media and the government and the 'public health experts' have to continue to go along with the narrative for all the same reasons. While we appear to have a largely docile population, I'm not at all sure these institutions would survive admitting 'well, we wrecked the economy, imprisoned you in your homes, kept you from seeing loved ones when they were dying, stopped you seeing your friends, prevented you doing your job or continuing your business, forced you to wear a piece of cloth over your face, and caused a vast amount of physical and mental damage - and actually it didn't achieve what we said it would. Oops, sorry, silly us'. Certainly they don't deserve to.

So, we're in a very nasty stalemate, where I suspect most of us now know these things aren't true, at least subconsciously, but no-one in authority dares to admit it.

I agree with all your comments, the part I have always failed to understand is there have been plenty of opportunities since Mar 2020 up to the present day for the PM to say - it is all over, we can return to normal and yet it has never been done. It would not take away the wrongs inflicted upon the population but it would draw a line under it. Whilst there is this continuing uncertainty there will always be the calls for restrictions to return, masks still being worn and the never ending call for people to have yet another "vaccine", all of which just ensures the stagnation of life and the economy continues.

The authorities will never admit that they got it wrong, the official narrative will always be we had no choice to impose restrictions.

I agree, in addition to the authorities the majority of the general population and the media will never admit they have been made fools of.

 

[MikeWM]

I agree with all your comments, the part I have always failed to understand is there have been plenty of opportunities since Mar 2020 up to the present day for the PM to say - it is all over, we can return to normal and yet it has never been done. It would not take away the wrongs inflicted upon the population but it would draw a line under it. Whilst there is this continuing uncertainty there will always be the calls for restrictions to return, masks still being worn and the never ending call for people to have yet another "vaccine", all of which just ensures the stagnation of life and the economy continues.

Cowardice? Stupidity? Or perhaps the uncertainty, fear and stagnation is part of the point and is isn't supposed to make sense (at least not in terms of what we expect and/or hope the aims of government are, ie. the well-being and prosperity of the populace). I've long argued, here and elsewhere, that the government treated us as if we were in an abusive relationship with it during the last two years. Once you've started that sort of abuse, it tends to not just end, and I think perhaps many of us were optimistic to think that it would once Covid was 'over'.

I found this week's monologue from Neil Oliver very interesting. Possibly a bit too 'conspiracy theory' for some, and maybe not all of his points will land with everyone, but I fear he rather accurately sums up - rather more eloquently than I manage! - a lot of what I think about what has been happening, and what still is happening, quite well. (And from the comments below the video, it seems a lot of other people think so too). Anyway, may as well post it here in case anyone else is interested, at least until YouTube takes it down, which seems likely to happen fairly quickly...

Neil Oliver: 'It's hard to tell yourself you've been taken for a fool but open your eyes'

 

[Hans]

Cowardice? Stupidity? Or perhaps the uncertainty, fear and stagnation is part of the point and is isn't supposed to make sense (at least not in terms of what we expect and/or hope the aims of government are, ie. the well-being and prosperity of the populace). I've long argued, here and elsewhere, that the government treated us as if we were in an abusive relationship with it during the last two years. Once you've started that sort of abuse, it tends to not just end, and I think perhaps many of us were optimistic to think that it would once Covid was 'over'.

I found this week's monologue from Neil Oliver very interesting. Possibly a bit too 'conspiracy theory' for some, and maybe not all of his points will land with everyone, but I fear he rather accurately sums up - rather more eloquently than I manage! - a lot of what I think about what has been happening, and what still is happening, quite well. (And from the comments below the video, it seems a lot of other people think so too). Anyway, may as well post it here in case anyone else is interested, at least until YouTube takes it down, which seems likely to happen fairly quickly...

Neil Oliver: 'It's hard to tell yourself you've been taken for a fool but open your eyes'

Neil Oliver has been a voice of sense amoungst many fools.

 

[Razorblades]

Indeed, Neil Oliver seems passionate about the creepy/ creeping sense of authoritarian/ dystopian control apparent since 2020.

GB News has recently been sold as part of a package to a consortium by the name of Legatum, in which one significant investor is the frequently encountered Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Let's see how, if any, its future editorial policy might be adjusted.

 

[Hans]

Indeed, Neil Oliver seems passionate about the creepy/ creeping sense of authoritarian/ dystopian control apparent since 2020.

GB News has recently been sold as part of a package to a consortium by the name of Legatum, in which one significant investor is the frequently encountered Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Let's see how, if any, its future editorial policy might be adjusted.

When I read of the change of ownership and saw the tentacles of the Gates connection, it actually made me smile - if GBNews were not touching so many raw nerves I doubt there would have been any interest in them.

 

[bramling]

I agree with all your comments, the part I have always failed to understand is there have been plenty of opportunities since Mar 2020 up to the present day for the PM to say - it is all over, we can return to normal and yet it has never been done. It would not take away the wrongs inflicted upon the population but it would draw a line under it. Whilst there is this continuing uncertainty there will always be the calls for restrictions to return, masks still being worn and the never ending call for people to have yet another "vaccine", all of which just ensures the stagnation of life and the economy continues.

This is an absolutely massive thing for me.

I cannot for the life of me understand why he hasn't done something to draw a line under things. At the very latest this should have happened at the point where all persons in the vulnerable cohorts had received their second vaccine dose.

It is this which is largely responsible for the "never quite going to shake this off" feeling that still pervades this country, now coming up to two and a half years down the line.

Johnson really does seem to live in a parallel universe.

 

[Hans]

This is an absolutely massive thing for me.

I cannot for the life of me understand why he hasn't done something to draw a line under things. At the very latest this should have happened at the point where all persons in the vulnerable cohorts had received their second vaccine dose.

It is this which is largely responsible for the "never quite going to shake this off" feeling that still pervades this country, now coming up to two and a half years down the line.

Johnson really does seem to live in a parallel universe.

It is not just Johnson, but yes he is the one who would be the one stand up and say "enough" as PM.

 

[bramling]

It is not just Johnson, but yes he is the one who would be the one stand up and say "enough" as PM.

He seems to have run frit right through the whole thing, not of Covid itself, but presumably more bothered about the possibility of at some point being in a position where he might have to defend his actions and decisions.

To be honest I don't really see why he ever went for the PM job, as apart from all the nefarious stuff he seems to have had little idea what he was actually going to do once in post, and little idea of what is expected of the person who holds the role. All this government seems to have ever done is create or exacerbate problems.

 

[Dent]

I cannot for the life of me understand why he hasn't done something to draw a line under things. At the very latest this should have happened at the point where all persons in the vulnerable cohorts had received their second vaccine dose.

This is basically because he terrorised people into thinking restrictions were necessary using arguments which had no logical end point, so every time he tried to draw a line under it the media started throwing his own scaremongering back at him.

This was entirely predictable as soon as he started scaremongering, but thinking anything through was never his strong point.

 

[bramling]

This is basically because he terrorised people into thinking restrictions were necessary using arguments which had no logical end point, so every time he tried to draw a lone under it the media started throwing his own scaremongering back at him.

This was entirely predictable as soon as he started scaremongering, but thinking anything through was never his strong point.

This seems a pretty good summary. There certainly seem to be numerous examples of the government failing to think through what the consequences of their decisions might be, and this applies to Sunak as well.

We still don't officially know why we went into lockdown in the first place. A lot of people still seem to be under the impression that the whole Covid response was "to stop me getting Covid", which was never the case.

 

[Hans]

but thinking anything through was never his strong point.

The main problem was the scaremongering was coming from the advisors (Witless looking at you as a start), yes as the PM he should lead and should be the one who makes a final decision, but it would take a very strong person to go against the "advice" being given. As you say, add in the hysteria of the media and it was a catch 22 situation. The error was introducing the restrictions in the first place, the moment the advisors and media knew they could change the PM's mind (remember he initially did not want to introduce restrictions) that was it, there was no turning back.

As posted, everytime there was a chance of the end being in sight - the ramping up of predictions and hysteria took place. Add in the almost complete complicity of the general population, and even when restrictions were lifted, as proven on other threads on this site, many still wear masks, continue to test and want a return to restrictions in the autumn.

It will be up to the new PM to declare an end - it will not come though, I will happily admit if I am proven wrong though!

 

[DustyBin]

It will be up to the new PM to declare an end - it will not come though, I will happily admit if I am proven wrong though!

It doesn’t help that the likes of the WHO are firmly in the “it’s not over” camp. That’s not to defend the actions of our own government however, assuming they do in fact continue with this nonsense.