Advice on what new car to buy.

[DustyBin]

Will shop around , but my nearest ford authorised service garage quotes the £1250 for 2 day job and I can't see it being much less anywhere else, mainly because they're going to see the surge in demand now and cash in on it.

Don't mind paying that sort of money, it's been a fantastic car and never needed any major work done, so don't mind spending a grand or two once in a while, my biggest concern are they going to actually do the work or pretend it's done

I’m sure they’ll actually do it. Very very naughty if they didn’t and not worth the risk!

 

[david1212]

The time and mileage intervals for expensive manufacturer scheduled replacement of belts etc is an important consideration both for the inital purchase if several years old, if will be required during the planned period of ownership and resale value if approaching the scheduled replacement age or mileage.

Likewise components that are supposed to last the life of the car ( at least 10 years / 150,000 miles ) but often do not. Just two examples are VAG group CR EA189 diesel engine EGR's ( exhaust gas recirculation valve ) that not only are expensive but require around 3 hours dismantling to gain access for removal and replacement then another 3 hours reassembly afterwards and some Renault Megane rear brake disks as integral to the hub.

Perhaps we need a separate thread on this ?

 

[Jamesrob637]

1968 Morris Minor as I was following today

 

[TPO]

Without knowing the size car you want, your budget or how you use your car it's a bit difficult to say. So we'll look at generalities:

As a private motorist, presumably you want reliability, low running costs etc - the obvious candidates (as mentioned by others) are the Koreans - so Kia or Hyundai. Very much doing what the Japanese did 30 years ago, building safe, reliable cars with good warranties and reasonable pricing. For an undemanding private motorist they're difficult to find fault with. If you don't fancy one of them then look at Toyota or Honda - again pretty much bulletproof reliability though usually a bit more expensive than the Kia / Hyundai. If none of those then I'd tend to recommend a Ford over most other things (including pretty much all (Volkswagen Audi Group) VAG products) - there are always plenty to choose from, their reliability is noticeably better than VAG and their ubiquity means pretty much any garage up and down the land can fix them with parts prices being much cheaper than VAG.



Easy to change for a mechanic yes, but with a bill of £ 300 - 600 for doing so, means it is an unnecessary cost at 5-6 years old.

The worst culprit for failing timing chains was, once again VW with masses of problems on the 1.2TSI engine, such that they modified it to being a belt cam - thereby giving their customers a nice £ 500 bill for future replacement.

The original argument for belts over chains is it made engines quieter - the reality is chains tend to last the life of the engine where belts don't and where engines aren't well designed a cambelt failure can write of an engine - Ford CVHs being a prime offender in the past.

It's interesting that the Japanese and Koreans have tended to stick with timing chains and the Europeans gone for belt cams - especially given the Japanese and Koreans cars are much more reliable as well.

I had various cars over the past 30 years or so (mostly second or 3rd hand from family)- various Ford, Vauxhall, Nissan, and then eventually bought a new-style Hyundai i-10. I ran the Hyundai for 7 years then finally replaced it last year with a nearly-new Focus. Although the Hyundai was a LOT of car for the price and was reliable, after 5-6 years things were failing- e.g. an air-con pump. That's when I found that unlike Ford, Hyundai doesn't provide info for aftermarket spares and so all Hyundai spares are OEM only- and expensive (e.g. replacement air con compressor- £700; thankfully the local garage I go to got one off a well known internet auction site for £100 instead- good chaps). I also got tucked up on some of the "whole life" offers when the previously excellent local Kia/Hyundai dealer changed hands 4 years after I bought the car, and decided to cut service level and renege on the "whole life" deals. I swore then I'd never go back, and cancelled my service plan and switched servicing to the local independent I use for my Big Van (rather old now, very analogue).

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

You want a garage to have good judgement and experience with the work that you're getting them to do. With simple stuff, anywhere will do. If you have a car that is a new model, or an unusual make, it might be the first of that model a back street mechanic has worked on, and you get to pay for them to learn, or have them try and do the job without a specialised tool.

I had a bracket fall off on my exhaust. The RapidFit Ford garage could only replace the whole system (£1100). They suggested another garage which welded on another one for £40. That place was on an industrial estate had a load of Rover P5s in various states of rust and disrepair, so I think they were practiced at welding rusty steel.

Getting to know a good local independent proves worthwhile. My Big Van has needed quite a bit of TLC over the years, including a top-end rebuild at just over 200k miles (getting the glow plugs and injectors out of certain Renault van engines is a notorious issue... so may as well do the whole top-end whilst in there to deal with a disintegrating and siezed-in glow-plug). They also know who to go to/not to go to for stuff like welding, and have a really decent Auto-electrician on the books (he covers their 2 garages). They also know where to get decent second hand/re-con parts- much lower price than new stuff and ideal for older vehicles.

I think it depends what you want, modern vehicles are impressive but can be expensive when they fail especially if it's a premium brand. I know a chap whose £100k hybrid RangeRover is still with the dealer after it failed in the warranty period and they couldn't fix it. You also need to look out for DPFs on a diesel of a few years old, unless the vehicle has done lots of M-way miles it could be costly as they need regular long/hot runs to burn the crud off; they don't get that on the school run.

Agree with comments of others about SUVs. They are expensive and don't get good mpg. If you need carrying space and like a higher driving position, you're better off with a van or a van-derived car like a Kangoo. Or an estate car- not fashionable but they cost less, typically get much better mpg and less nickable so better insurance price.

JMO though.

TPO.

 

[Frothy_B]

Contrary to alot of the opinion on here, I'd stay away from Japanese/Korean cars, but thats more a case of my own bad experience.

I had a 2009 Mazda 6, purchased in 2012. Had so many problems that I ended up hating the car and couldn't wait to see the back of it.

I've had a Skoda Octavia Scout for the last 4 years, 17 Reg. I'm seeing 17/67 plate Scouts going for a similar price that I paid for mine in 2018, with 40-50,000 miles on them. The market is a little mad at the minute. I can't fault it as a car though, it's done everything I've asked of it, including yearly road trips to Eastern Europe. I'd definitely consider another Skoda in future.

Fair play for keeping a car going that long. If it weren't for the state of the used car market and the general cost of living going up, I'd be looking to change again now. Couldn't imagine keeping the same thing 30 years.

 

[Mikw]

I'd say anything from the VW stable (had loads of these without any major issues) or a Toyota Hybrid.

I currently drive a new shape Yaris and it usually gets 65-85 mpg, as petrol prices go ever upwards i'm getting twice the MPG of conventional petrol cars, it's got all the safety systems too.

 

[JohnMcL7]

Contrary to alot of the opinion on here, I'd stay away from Japanese/Korean cars, but thats more a case of my own bad experience.

I had a 2009 Mazda 6, purchased in 2012. Had so many problems that I ended up hating the car and couldn't wait to see the back of it.

I've had a Skoda Octavia Scout for the last 4 years, 17 Reg. I'm seeing 17/67 plate Scouts going for a similar price that I paid for mine in 2018, with 40-50,000 miles on them. The market is a little mad at the minute. I can't fault it as a car though, it's done everything I've asked of it, including yearly road trips to Eastern Europe. I'd definitely consider another Skoda in future.

Fair play for keeping a car going that long. If it weren't for the state of the used car market and the general cost of living going up, I'd be looking to change again now. Couldn't imagine keeping the same thing 30 years.

Was that a petrol or a diesel as the diesels at that time were awful. I have a petrol 2011 Mazda 6 (facelift) which has only had a single non wear and tear fault I can think of (stereo amp failure) despite having a number of complex features, I've kept the car far longer than any before because it's been so incredibly reliable. The previous three cars I had were all VW based (two Skodas, one Seat) and despite only having them for around three years each they had more issues in that time than the Mazda has in its much longer life. It was never anything major but just constant fiddly little problems particularly with sensors and it was my Mum's bulletproof Mazda3 that convinced me to switch, the 6 has certainly lived up to t its reputation I think Skodas aren't the bargain they used to be and quite expensive for what you get now before the current price madness.

My next car will likely be a Mazda and the reliability surveys usually match the experience I've had.

 

[londiscape]

Never underestimate the power of old cars
I'm still learning to drive, hopefully ending that this summer, I was lucky enough to get a 52 plate VW Golf automatic for £800 couple of years ago with 88k miles on the clock - very well looked after, bought from a friend of a friend (who has since become a friend) and I'm hoping to keep it till it falls apart, at least at 150k miles. No frills or whistles, it does the job. Only things I've done is replace battery and tyres (the former was due to it being sat still for too much time cos of lockdown and not being able to go out driving with a supervisor).

Apparently there's a name for this 'bangernomics' - might be more what you're looking for rather than new cars with all their electronics and 'computer says no'

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apparently there's a name for this 'bangernomics' - might be more what you're looking for rather than new cars with all their electronics and 'computer says no'

The problem with "bangernomics" now is the increasing roll-out of clean air zones in which such cars may well not be permitted. It'll work if you're very rural (unless just outside a very anti-car place like say Oxford or Cambridge) but not for urban driving.

 

[37114]

Ford Mondeo is a good bet, I just bought a 18month old 2.0l Diesel with 9,000 miles. It is the 6th Mondeo I have had and they have been excellent, the 2nd one is 13 years old, still on the road with 330k miles on the clock

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ford Mondeo is a good bet, I just bought a 18month old 2.0l Diesel with 9,000 miles. It is the 6th Mondeo I have had and they have been excellent, the 2nd one is 13 years old, still on the road with 330k miles on the clock

Or if you prefer an SUV style body, the Kuga is very little more than a vertically stretched Focus hatchback, and they are very, very cheap for what they are (cheaper than Mondeos seem to be).

But if you want a Mondy have one now - they are no longer on sale new.

 

[E27007]

If you want simple and relaxing driving then you might want to try a test drive in a hybrid with an automatic transmission, they're far less complex to drive than a manual and make driving more enjoyable, particularly when driving in town and heavy traffic.

The Honda Jazz fits the bill, 5 year warranty, 5 year service plan, 2 pedal gearless hybrid drive, and around £21000, the VW Polo is an old design, specify the VW DSG to have a 2-pedal automatic bumps the Polo to Jazz levels of price, the Jazz is a thoroughly modern car, very high mpg, 5-star NCAP and the combination of electric power and IC gives stroing acceleration, the Polo is an obsolete plain jane of a car with the wrong price tag....too high

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Honda Jazz fits the bill, 5 year warranty, 5 year service plan, 2 pedal gearless hybrid drive, and around £21000, the VW Polo is an old design, specify the VW DSG to have a 2-pedal automatic bumps the Polo to Jazz levels, the Jazz is a thoroughly modern car, very high mpg, 5-star NCAP and the combination of electric power and IC gives stroing acceleration, the Polo is an obsolete plain jane of a car with the wrong price tag....too high

I find VW in general is overpriced due to the "cool" brand. Skoda is the same cars but better value, but they are getting pricier too as people learn that. It's not a brand I see as worth paying more for.

 

[E27007]

Thats all good to know about the Sandero as i have just ordered one...

To add to your relief, a very trusted friend, 40 + years, , CEO of a multi franchise car-retailer, expert knowledge, told me that the Sandero is a reliable car.

Will shop around , but my nearest ford authorised service garage quotes the £1250 for 2 day job and I can't see it being much less anywhere else, mainly because they're going to see the surge in demand now and cash in on it.

Don't mind paying that sort of money, it's been a fantastic car and never needed any major work done, so don't mind spending a grand or two once in a while, my biggest concern are they going to actually do the work or pretend it's done

I do not understand why the charges are so high, I recall changing a head gasket and cambelt on a Ford Escort van, never tackled an Escort before, time a leisurely afternoon of 4 hours of work, parts bill £25 for the belt, same again for the gasket and new cylinder head bolts. As a boy I as surrounded by spanners, sockets and men who knew how to fix cars, a basic skill which has served well for the last 50 years of motoring.

Is this still true today? The shortage of new cars has pushed second hand car prices up, sometimes over the price of a new car.

Yes S/H stock, which are often more profitable than selling new, rose 25% in price, and any new car into the showroom will soon find a buyer.
A friend, CEO of a multi franchise car retail told me the semiconductor shortage will continue for about 4 years.
I notice some car makers have suspended sales of budget entry-level models, why use up the ration of semiconductors in a budget car when the semiconductors can furnish a high trim high cost model

 

[birchesgreen]

To add to your relief, a very trusted friend, 40 + years, , CEO of a multi franchise car-retailer, expert knowledge, told me that the Sandero is a reliable car.

Well had it 5 days so far and all fine!

 

[EssexGonzo]

The Honda Jazz fits the bill, 5 year warranty, 5 year service plan, 2 pedal gearless hybrid drive, and around £21000, the VW Polo is an old design, specify the VW DSG to have a 2-pedal automatic bumps the Polo to Jazz levels, the Jazz is a thoroughly modern car, very high mpg, 5-star NCAP and the combination of electric power and IC gives stroing acceleration, the Polo is an obsolete plain jane of a car with the wrong price tag....too high

I would totally recommend the Jazz.

Not only is the new one a very efficient hybrid, but it also shares the immense practicality of the original versions.

And the reliability.

We still have the Jazz we bought new in 2004. It’s still passing MOTs and still running. It has cost us no big bills and still does 45mpg. The ultimate in sustainable transport. And it’s a van when you need it to be.

 

[trainmania100]

I do not understand why the charges are so high, I recall changing a head gasket and cambelt on a Ford Escort van, never tackled an Escort before, time a leisurely afternoon of 4 hours of work, parts bill £25 for the belt, same again for the gasket and new cylinder head bolts. As a boy I as surrounded by spanners, sockets and men who knew how to fix cars, a basic skill which has served well for the last 50 years of motoring

Because in my car the timing belt is inside the engine which was never designed to be cracked open. Expensive tools are needed and many garages don't have them. Plus it's a 12+ hour job, tight space, engine out to remove the cover.

Then the cost usually covers both the wet belt and the pump belt plus the water pump I think. Maybe those themselves are cheap but I don't know if wet belts are any dearer.

Ford Dianges portslade now quoting me £1500 for a standard change and £1700 for an enhanced change (I think something along those lines), emphasis on them having "genuine ford parts".

Id rather pay £1700 to keep it than spend £7000 on another used car which might need more work done


Not sure if I'm missing something here but I've seen online a lot done electric car batteries costing £20,000 so I'd rather stick with petrol for as long as possible lol

 

[jon0844]

An EV battery might last for 150,000 miles or more, so I doubt many people will be too concerned about that - especially as that would be a brand new pack and there will likely be many places able to replace individual cells. Plus the batteries won't just die like an engine might, they'll degrade.

 

[E27007]

An EV battery might last for 150,000 miles or more, so I doubt many people will be too concerned about that - especially as that would be a brand new pack and there will likely be many places able to replace individual cells. Plus the batteries won't just die like an engine might, they'll degrade.

EV batteries both degrade and "die", I have 20+ years of driving a hybrid car, and have carried out bench tests of HV packs and refurbishment by power-cycling the HV pack. the analogy is a chain on a lifting hoist, the if one link is below rated strength then the whole chain will fail, it is the weakest battery cell that becomes the "rogue" of the HV pack, intermittently going open-circuit, high internal resistance or for some reason suddenly decimates in electrical capacity which determines the serviceability and usable capacity of an HV pack

Not sure if I'm missing something here but I've seen online a lot done electric car batteries costing £20,000 so I'd rather stick with petrol for as long as possible lol

The battery makers are predicting the cost of an HV battery will reduce by 50% compounding over a series of 7-year cycles, a "Moores Law" type of prediction, therefore an HV pack costed at £20,000 reduces to £10,000 in 7 years and £5000 14 years from now

 

[Islineclear3_1]

How do electric cars manage through flooded roads? Lots of flooding outside where I work today and even normal cars struggling to get through. Pavement totally cut off for pedestrians

 

[bspahh]

How do electric cars manage through flooded roads? Lots of flooding outside where I work today and even normal cars struggling to get through. Pavement totally cut off for pedestrians

In theory better an electric car will handle floods better than an ICE car as those need an air intake, where the engine will be destroyed if it ingests water. In practice, I would be wary of relying on the waterproofing to drive through more than a puddle, unless the handbook says otherwise.

In any case, it is hard to judge the depth of flood water, and if it is too deep, you run the risk of your car becoming a boat, with expensive consequences.

I have a diesel Mondeo, which is known for having an air intake which is quite low down. My daughter works in flood risk management, and I would be disowned if I drove into a flood and got stuck. Even if you can drive through a flood, the bow wave will cause extra flooding for nearby properties, particularly if you drive fast.

 

[E27007]

A bit of a wild card, but Citroen have introduced a new entry level C3 at £12,995.

It is quite rare to find any car with a retail price under £13k nowadays. If you wanted to stick with Skoda, then not going to find anything under £15k as no longer a budget brand that it used to be

£13k for the Citroen C3, probably the cheapest new car on the market, however, can Citroen actually supply the car? A old trick to gain dealership footfall, I'm told Renault would advertise roll-outs of special editions of cars at bargain prices, supplies were limited, or a long wait, but it pulled in the customers. Citroen are a diminishing brand in the UK

With Dacia Sandero, they used the *floorpan* of the previous generation Clio but are also using current Renault engines, gearboxes and switch gear. The bodywork is Dacia's own design - so the whole package is quite different in approach and it's far from being an 'old Renault design' in the way the old Eastern Bloc cars were.

I have carefully checked over the bodywork of a recent Sandero, ( with permission from the owner) the fit and finish of the bodywork is exacting, neat panel gaps, panels in precise alignment, especially the bonnet and the front wings.
i could not fault it, the Pressing Shop and Assembly Line must be very modern, no signs of "old or cast off" in the quality of the body panels of the Sandero.

Skoda Octavias are also very reliable "old fashioned" saloon style cars. There's a reason they're very popular with taxi and private hire companies.

Skoda Octavia is a name in use since the 1950s, when Skoda had engines in the rear, imported into the UK they were very cheap and poorly built, a simple test of a 1970s Skoda being door closure, the bodyshell alignment being so variable doors would not latch and stay shut.
The Modern Skoda Octavia is based upon the VW Passat , noted for use by Taxi cab fuse, very spacious and capable of high mileages, around £25000 new from memory

 

[A0wen]

I have carefully checked over the bodywork of a recent Sandero, ( with permission from the owner) the fit and finish of the bodywork is exacting, neat panel gaps, panels in precise alignment, especially the bonnet and the front wings.
i could not fault it, the Pressing Shop and Assembly Line must be very modern, no signs of "old or cast off" in the quality of the body panels of the Sandero.

I think you're conflating design with build quality.

The comment previously made by 'cactustwirly' was the Dacia Sandero was "a cast of (sic) Renault design" - that is empirically not the case. It has used an old Renault floorpan but that's it - the metal work of the body was entirely new as a design. That was quite unlike the old Eastern Bloc Yugo, Lada or FSOs which were basically the same metal work as the Fiats they were based on - yes some details had been changed e.g. lights, grilles etc but the basic form was as Fiat had designed it some years earlier.

A brand new design can be badly built every bit as much as a 20 year old design. Equally a 20 year old design can be built to very high, exacting standards.

What you're referring to in your post is build quality - and that can apply equally to any product that factory produces whether or not it's a new or old design.

 

[90019]

The Modern Skoda Octavia is based upon the VW Passat , noted for use by Taxi cab fuse, very spacious and capable of high mileages, around £25000 new from memory

The Octavia is based on the Golf , while the Superb is basically a stretched Passat.

 

[100andthirty]

The Octavia is based on the Golf , while the Superb is basically a stretched Passat.

The Superb and Passat are stretched Golfs - awfully confusing this "platform" engineering.

 

[A0wen]

The Superb and Passat are stretched Golfs - awfully confusing this "platform" engineering.

See here for details about VW MQB platforms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MQB_platform it basically covers 90% of the cars they produce.....

 

[90019]

The Superb and Passat are stretched Golfs - awfully confusing this "platform" engineering.

I forgot about the change when the MQB came about, I was still thinking about the older models.

 

[AndrewP]

Interesting thread. I have a soft spot for Dacias having been in many Bucharest taxis over the years and if they can cope with that punishment they can cope with anything!

Would I swap my Jag for one - no!

 

[Snow1964]

Interesting thread. I have a soft spot for Dacias having been in many Bucharest taxis over the years and if they can cope with that punishment they can cope with anything!

Would I swap my Jag for one - no!

But you could swap a £60k+ Jag for 3 or 4 brand new Dacia (or even 5 if prepared to have the poverty spec version)

A interesting thought, if you had 4 grown up children all still at home, would you you prefer them all to borrow your jag all the time, or each have a basic Dacia.

 

[ComUtoR]

A interesting thought, if you had 4 grown up children all still at home, would you you prefer them all to borrow your jag all the time, or each have a basic Dacia.

Are they safe drivers ?

The type of car wouldn't matter to me. If I trusted the kids enough to stick them behind the wheel of a car, I would want them in the safest car possible. They are just as likely to drive like an idiot in a Jag as they are a Dacia