Who will be our next Prime Minister? - Rishi Sunak!

[Sm5]

At this moment, the UK needs a PM who can stabilise things and convince the rest of the world and the markets that the UK is not a banana country.

Boris becoming PM would lead to yet more chaos and the UK becoming even more of a laughing stock!

Maybe they should ask the markets who they want to be leader ?
in a General Election.

Anything else is just 2 more years of the UK being destroyed by a party in it for themselves. Its like watching the fall of Rome, 21st Century style.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Anne-Marie Travelyan has publicly supported Boris so that will be a new Transport secretary when Sunak wins tomorrow PM.

 

[Gloster]

As I mentioned above, I fear that we may see a rush of MPs announcing tomorrow that they will support Johnson. Their decision will, of course, have nothing to do with the fact that that many of the constituency parties will have been muttering about deselection (many would like to see worse done) for those who don’t support their hero. The MPs’ vote is of little consequence if it is down to Johnson versus Sunak: the members will chose who they want.

One can always hope that the members will show some sense and knowledge of the power they have, and the need to use it wisely, but personal prejudice and greed will probably win out. Meanwhile the world goes to hell in a handcart.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

As I mentioned above, I fear that we may see a rush of MPs announcing tomorrow that they will support Johnson. Their decision will, of course, have nothing to do with the fact that that many of the constituency parties will have been muttering about deselection (many would like to see worse done) for those who don’t support their hero. The MPs’ vote is of little consequence if it is down to Johnson versus Sunak: the members will chose who they want.

One can always hope that the members will show some sense and knowledge of the power they have, and the need to use it wisely, but personal prejudice and greed will probably win out. Meanwhile the world goes to hell in a handcart.

MP ballot is secret so the constituency parties can say what they want at the end of the day MPs will do whats right for them and the party and vote Sunak

 

[Gloster]

MP ballot is secret so the constituency parties can say what they want at the end of the day MPs will do whats right for them and the party and vote Sunak

If I understand it right, if there are three candidates the MPs vote will eliminate one: they then have another vote to indicate their preference. If there are only two candidates, then the MPs only have one vote, which is to indicate their preference. However, in both cases, the vote between two candidates is indicative only: the members then choose who will be leader and they are not bound by the MPs preference.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If I understand it right, if there are three candidates the MPs vote will eliminate one: they then have another vote to indicate their preference. If there are only two candidates, then the MPs only have one vote, which is to indicate their preference. However, in both cases, the vote between two candidates is indicative only: the members then choose who will be leader and they are not bound by the MPs preference.

Correct but if there is only one nominee with the requisite 100+ votes members get no say which is what the men in grey suits are trying to orchestrate deals as well as getting all the old Tory guard out on the media to rubbish Boris. Sunak is their choice so thats the most likely outcome.

 

[duncanp]

The Tory party wants to privatise the NHS. Have you experienced US healthcare?

Privatising the NHS, or to be more accurate privatising the NHS to a greater extent than it is privatised already, does not mean that we have to experience the same healthcare system as the United States. To imply otherwise is scaremongering.
throughout
If the NHS model is so successful, you have to ask why very few other countries in the world have followed it.

I remember reading a newspaper article a few weeks ago about a Ukrainian refugee living in the UK being astonished about the 8am "telephone scramble" every weekday morning (weekends - forget it) of people trying to get through to the GP surgery to grovel with the receptionist for an appointment. In Ukraine, before the war at least, you could pick up the phone and get a same day appointment with a GP. So why can't we have that here?

I would much rather we have a social insurance system for healthcare in the UK, as is practised throughout most of Western Europe. But there are too many vested interests within the NHS for this to happens.

And how about, er, treating some patients instead of pointless exercises like lesson on "gender unicorns".

Doctors outraged at NHS trust’s two-hour lesson on ‘gender unicorns’

Medical staff received training on 11 different expressions, including the crudely named ‘genderf---’, leaked documents show

www.telegraph.co.uk

Doctors outraged at NHS trust’s two-hour lesson on ‘gender unicorns’​

Medical staff received training on 11 different expressions, including the crudely named ‘genderf---’, leaked documents show

NHS doctors are being taught about “gender unicorns” and “genderf---” identities, leaked training has revealed.

Dozens of health service staff attended a session about gender diversity last week, delivered by the Devon Partnership NHS Trust to another trust and leaked to The Telegraph.

The two-hour session displayed a diagram of a “gender unicorn” with sliding scales of male, female and other identities, alongside spectrums of gender expression, sex assigned at birth and physical and emotional attraction.

Later in the class, medics were shown 11 examples of gender expressions, including non-binary, agender, neutrois, demigender, polygender, androgyne and femme-butch.

Attendees were left in visible disbelief when the NHS gender clinic worker leading the session introduced another identity – “genderf---” – which they explained was “when people don’t give a f--- about gender”.

It has prompted warnings that the NHS is failing to treat transgender issues impartially behind closed doors.

Another PowerPoint slide on terminology mentioned “Terf” – trans-exclusionary radical feminist, considered a slur for those critical of trans activism – with the authors JK Rowling and Germaine Greer mentioned by the trainer as examples of this.

Doctors were told about “kinks” in another slide setting out the “LGBTQ umbrella”, with BDSM also mentioned as a community linked closely to trans.

Another slide urged medics to “affirm” gender identities in order to get the trust of transgender service users.

However, the training met a defiant response, with one medic in attendance saying it “opened my eyes to how ridiculous this whole thing is” and suggested “capture” by activists.

“It seemed that they were almost an apostate for the trans movement and they were very proud of the fact they had 3,800 people on the [gender clinic] waiting list,” the NHS staff member, who wished to remain anonymous, told The Telegraph.

“They were almost upset that there is no licensing for hormones for gender purposes, whereas to most rational people working in the NHS – and the public – we think shouldn’t our healthcare pounds be spent on evidence-based treatment and not creating waiting lists for self-interested groups who are using treatments with no evidence base whatsoever?

“They went down a list of gender identities and talked about ‘genderf---’. People in the audience were smirking, they felt a bit uncomfortable. It was almost Alan Partridge-esque. Why did we need to be exposed to that language?”

Devon Partnership NHS Trust, which is home to the West of England Specialist Gender Identity Clinic, declined to comment.

Another trust, which The Telegraph is not naming to protect attendees, commissioned the training to inform its own gender policy.

However, the medic who attended along with 30 others – though the voluntary session was open to all staff who wished to attend – said it turned people off.

“The EDI officer at our trust is very shrewd, really shrewd and they have made sure that the trans guidance group is about 50 per cent gender critical,” the medic added.

“We’re not going to fall for it because we’re not that wet behind the ears. But there are, I can imagine, other trusts where people don’t have such a critical mass of gender-critical people.”

This was the latest diversity row to hit the NHS after a mounting public backlash against taxpayer cash being spent on equality sessions, inclusion tsars and “affirmative” treatment.

On Friday, NHS England opened a consultation, running until Dec 4, on draft plans to overhaul gender services amid the closure of the Tavistock Clinic and a landmark review by Dr Hilary Cass calling for change.

Among the plans, children being considered for hormone treatment would be closely monitored into adulthood and children who buy unregulated puberty blockers could be referred to police or social services.

The proposals also include a “more integrated multi-disciplinary team” in gender clinics, with experts in autism, mental health and neurodisability alongside gender dysphoria.

The national plans, which have been welcomed by campaigners, also outline more limits for formal social transition among teenagers, including “evidence that in most cases gender incongruence does not persist into adolescence” for pre-pubertal children.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I remember reading a newspaper article a few weeks ago about a Ukrainian refugee living in the UK being astonished about the 8am "telephone scramble" every weekday morning (weekends - forget it) of people trying to get through to the GP surgery to grovel with the receptionist for an appointment. In Ukraine, before the war at least, you could pick up the phone and get a same day appointment with a GP. So why can't we have that here?

Medical receptionists are the problem. A friend's dad is a GP who runs a fairly big practice, and they've sacked quite a few receptionists for their attitude towards patients. He told me that they once recorded all the calls, only to discover that three out of the four receptionists were acting as unofficial triage nurses despite the general order to simply ask if they required a doctor, or if the nurse would suffice. Instead, it turned out that the receptionists were demanding detailed information from patients, and then offering them later appointments based on their own opinion.

 

[najaB]

If the NHS model is so successful, you have to ask why very few other countries in the world have followed it.

Well, for one thing there's very little profit in it. But it couldn't be that.

I remember reading a newspaper article a few weeks ago about a Ukrainian refugee living in the UK being astonished about the 8am "telephone scramble" every weekday morning (weekends - forget it) of people trying to get through to the GP surgery to grovel with the receptionist for an appointment. In Ukraine, before the war at least, you could pick up the phone and get a same day appointment with a GP. So why can't we have that here?

Could it be anything to do with underfunding... well, rather misfunding the NHS by the government? Nah, couldn't be that.

And how about, er, treating some patients instead of pointless exercises like lesson on "gender unicorns".

It's in The Telegraph, so no chance whatsoever that the reporting is slanted to suit a right-wing, anti-woke narrative.

 

[nw1]

So I guess you weren't around when Labour managed to totally mess up invading a foreign country yet still managed to win the following general election.

OK I will give you that. But (with the proviso that my political memory does not include anything pre-Thatcher) it's about the only occasion they did.

Anyway what's your basis for saying the Tories can seriously mess up and somehow get back in?

There seems to have been some suggestions (including one on here) that there's a realistic chance the Tories could get back in if Sunak becomes PM. Yes, Sunak is less bad than Truss but if they won under him, it would appear to show that the Tories have got away with recent events simply by changing the leader.

Going further back I can think of plenty of examples when the Tories messed up and got back in, for example

- the monetarism and austerity which led to huge unemployment figures and social unrest in the early 80s. Yet for some unbeknown reason 43% of people still voted for them in 1983. (I admit that a split opposition was a factor here, but even still, more than 4 in 10 still voted for them).
- the poll tax, which was very, very unpopular. Yet it appeared they could get back in just by changing the leader
- the early 90s recession, which they didn't seem to do much about. Again, it wasn't enough to stop people voting for them in 1992.
- the 2010s austerity, which again led to social unrest. Despite this, people forgave them and they got back in at the 2015 election
- I won't comment on Boris Johnson messing up in his early days by implementing B****t because that's too controversial.

 

[GS250]

As you mentioned the NHS. 10/10 for Raigmore Hospital in Inverness for their services recently. Managed to come a cropper in the Highlands and had a suspected broken ankle. Had me x-rayed and suggested a bad sprain. However someone more senior reviewed the xray a couple of days later and called me back for a CT scan. Did it on the same day and confirmed no break but definite bad ligament injury. Glad that they took the time to review it.

A great service but definitely one that I've paid for down the years through NI etc.

 

[nw1]

Privatising the NHS, or to be more accurate privatising the NHS to a greater extent than it is privatised already, does not mean that we have to experience the same healthcare system as the United States. To imply otherwise is scaremongering.
throughout
If the NHS model is so successful, you have to ask why very few other countries in the world have followed it.

I remember reading a newspaper article a few weeks ago about a Ukrainian refugee living in the UK being astonished about the 8am "telephone scramble" every weekday morning (weekends - forget it) of people trying to get through to the GP surgery to grovel with the receptionist for an appointment. In Ukraine, before the war at least, you could pick up the phone and get a same day appointment with a GP. So why can't we have that here?

We used to have that here, admittedly not same day.

Something has gone wrong since Covid, and an explanation from the NHS is needed as to why surgeries are adopting such a hostile approach to patients. It doesn't mean, however, that the NHS is fundamentally bad. Until 2019 it (mostly) worked.

I'd agree that some countries have affordable private healthcare, but that's not the point; we'd go from free to paid-for healthcare and that is a regressive step. And knowing what the Tories are like, I am sure they would choose the US model to line the pockets of their rich friends, rather than say a continental European model.

 

[Typhoon]

Interesting collection of MPs who seem to have changed their mind on Johnson at https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...sedgntp&cvid=a227732e3c5c404aa0d8720ab3166659

Bradley is probably the worst:

Then

“I'm afraid – though it pains me as I have always supported him– this can’t continue. Government can’t just grind to a halt like this.”

Now

“To be honest, though clearly he made mistakes, I was never one of those who had wanted him to go in the first place.”

It is probably worth adding that Eastwood has a majority of 1,500 odd, Higginbotham 1,300 odd, Mortimer got in at a by-election, and many others are in red-wall seats, the sort of seats where the cost of living will hit hardest. They are clearly desperate - in need of a bit of distraction from the pain of the next few years. Perhaps they are hoping that their electorate will believe that 'Levelling-Up' is more than another Johnson slogan?

 

[GS250]

I'd agree that some countries have affordable private healthcare, but that's not the point; we'd go from free to paid-for healthcare and that is a regressive step. And knowing what the Tories are like, I am sure they would choose the US model to line the pockets of their rich friends, rather than say a continental European model.

Free healthcare? Do the Doctors etc all work voluntarily?

 

[py_megapixel]

Interesting collection of MPs who seem to have changed their mind on Johnson at https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...sedgntp&cvid=a227732e3c5c404aa0d8720ab3166659

Bradley is probably the worst:

Well, his second statement there is just a blatant lie, isn't it. Why couldn't he just say "Although I wanted him to go, I've now reconsidered [and seen how much worse the alternative is] and I am happy to support him again"??

It's almost as if they are so used to lying that they now do it even when it doesn't benefit them whatsoever. Not that I'd expect anything different from someone representing this party, of course.

Free healthcare? Do the Doctors etc all work voluntarily?

Free healthcare in this context means free at the point of use. This is felt to be important because it is (quite rightly IMO) considered unjust that people should feel compelled to make decisions about their health based principally on financial factors.

 

[Busaholic]

Interesting collection of MPs who seem to have changed their mind on Johnson at https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...sedgntp&cvid=a227732e3c5c404aa0d8720ab3166659

Bradley is probably the worst:

It is probably worth adding that Eastwood has a majority of 1,500 odd, Higginbotham 1,300 odd, Mortimer got in at a by-election, and many others are in red-wall seats, the sort of seats where the cost of living will hit hardest. They are clearly desperate - in need of a bit of distraction from the pain of the next few years. Perhaps they are hoping that their electorate will believe that 'Levelling-Up' is more than another Johnson slogan?

There's a Tory grandmother sale on at Westminster tomorrow - no bid too low, buyer collects, sold as seen, cracks and all.

 

[nw1]

Free healthcare? Do the Doctors etc all work voluntarily?

What I mean is, free as in not having to pay when you visit.

 

[GS250]

What I mean is, free as in not having to pay when you visit.

Sorry, I was being a complete pendant

It's getting off topic but do you not pay a nominal fee in most of Euroland? Be it a monthly insurance fee etc..

 

[Acfb]

+++ BORIS NOT STANDING +++

"In the last few days I have been overwhelmed by the number of people who suggested that I should once again contest the Conservative Party leadership,

order-order.com

 

[Class 317]

Boris not standing being reported on Sky news as well.

 

[kermit]

Truss launches surprise comeback bid!

 

[birchesgreen]

This must be the first thing he has ever pulled out of.

 

[martin2345uk]

Well there we go, change the thread title to "Sunak will be our next Prime Minister" I guess

 

[deltic]

A great service but definitely one that I've paid for down the years through NI etc.

NI does not pay for the NHS.

 

[Thirteen]

Boris isn't stupid, he knows coming back would be a disaster in the poll.

The only other reason I can think of is that he's been given big money to appear on I'm A Celebrity.

 

[Djgr]

I would much rather we have a social insurance system for healthcare in the UK, as is practised throughout most of Western Europe. But there are too many vested interests within the NHS for this to happens.

Well that and the fact that the overwhelming percentage of the population don't share your views

 

[Yew]

Boris not standing being reported on Sky news as well.

I honestly wonder if he did it just to see if he could get the nominations.

 

[Howardh]

Chortle.

Unfortunately it may make the Tories more electable, but I'll take the risk.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Sunak was always going to get this its was pre ordained by the men in grey suits to protect the Tory party brand

 

[Thirteen]

Honestly, who'd thunk we'd get the first non white PM in the same year as the third female PM.