dk1
Veteran Member
Anybody know roughly how much TOCs pay for a litre of diesel at the moment. I dont think they pay any tax & a few years ago i did hear that it was only around 20p.
Surely like airlines they bulk buy in advance, hedging the prices so as to avoid being affected by fluctuations?
Surely like airlines they bulk buy in advance, hedging the prices so as to avoid being affected by fluctuations?
That's part of the negotiation- and it isn't really a bashing as they already have figured the costs into their financial planning- rather, it's a windfall for their supplier- much like a spike is a bashing for the supplier.Problem is is when the price dropped like it did the other year and certain TOCs took a hell of a bashing on it too..
not sure what toc's pay, but red diesel is about 70p a litre at the minute, don't no what taxes ect they'd pay,
The VAT is not only applied to the raw product but also to the fuel duty, it taxes a tax.raw product 47.72p
fuel duty 58.95p
VAT 21.33p
Anybody know roughly how much TOCs pay for a litre of diesel at the moment. I dont think they pay any tax & a few years ago i did hear that it was only around 20p.
At the moment it is about 70p per litre I belive - the price fluctuates directly with the crude oil prices and does not change like the diesel you buy at the pumps
Bargain!! No point eco-driving then
Is eco-driving a consideration for TOCs? As many timetables have quite a bit of padding, you could drive at a slower speed and still arrive on time.Bargain!! No point eco-driving then
Is eco-driving a consideration for TOCs? As many timetables have quite a bit of padding, you could drive at a slower speed and still arrive on time.
Just wait until they start putting electricity meters in trains. NR could then charge for the electricity used.It's starting to be. We are asked to avoid going beyond notch 5 on sprinter type units where possible without causing delay. Gets boring though. Dont know anyone who eco-drives on their last bit, thrash!!
Just wait until they start putting electricity meters in trains. NR could then charge for the electricity used.
Do all trains have meters then?Already do. We get awards for drivers who use least amount of electricity on a journey without losing time. All part of remote monitoring.
Do all trains have meters then?
That's part of the negotiation- and it isn't really a bashing as they already have figured the costs into their financial planning- rather, it's a windfall for their supplier- much like a spike is a bashing for the supplier.
Do all trains have meters then?
IIRC Virgin put one in a Pendo last year, to see accurately how much NR were charging them for the electricity and to see if usage was correct.
Many do now. I would imagine trains like all singing all dancing Pendos do. I think LM are now doing same with their emu fleet. NXEA are doing pretty well with all types of remote monitoring. A couple of weeks ago i met up with a mate from the depot for a cuppa & told him i'd had a general fault light briefly before leaving Liverpool St. He told me he knew & that i had pressed pan-up/reset within 4 seconds!!
Trains have had power consumption monitoring equipment for quite a while and also fule flow on Diesels it's called OTMR - The OTMR does not only monitor what the driver does it also monitors what the train does as well.
The VAT is not only applied to the raw product but also to the fuel duty, it taxes a tax.
I would have thought it was to just see how much energy a train was using and compare it to estimated consumption calculated by TABS, not anything to do with the price. Virgin are part of the ATOC EC4T price setting agreement, and NRIL send them a bill each month with the consumption calculated by TABS using the appropriate billing rate, which they can request calculations for. The process (apparent from the TABS consumption part) is transparent and the whole process is something TOCS are very hot on.
Not much they can do in the short run other than challenge the consumption figure being applied by TABS, complain about transmission losses, or the favoured approach of not believing anything TABS outputs.
In the longer run they can request that NRIL have Atkins model a new consumption rate though.
Diesel doesn't have these problems, though it is fun when it comes to stocktake time...
It is my understanding that all modern EMUs have some form of metering built in to the power regulation equipment/software, not all TOCs opt to pay extra for access to the data either by way of a readout in the cab, or data logging facilities though.