Football

[Purple Train]

I think that’s actually what Darlo is getting at and it’s a fair point.

We lost. We weren’t robbed but we were probably a bit unlucky and it was closer than I thought it’d be. Southgate out? No! We’re nearly there and that’s because we deserve to be because of what he’s turned this team into. Go back ten years and remember how awful we were?

For me I’m more than happy to see him in charge for another tournament and then look at things after that depending on how we’re doing. Tonight was disappointing but we shouldn’t overreact.

Edit - I said last night that I’d jump into the hotel fountain outside if we beat France tonight (and I would’ve done it), I’m disappointed that I stayed dry even if I am a little relieved.

Couldn't agree more.

This is the second World Cup tournament since we went out with a whimper and collected only a single point from three group games. Under Southgate, we've reached our first major tournament final in 55 years, and reached a World Cup semi-final for the first time in 28 years. Such achievements do not happen purely out of luck.
The people moaning about how we "always lose to the first good team we face" seem to have fairly short memories, and might be mixing up France and Croatia. France are the reigning world champions. They have one of the best forward lines in the world. And we matched them and more. I won't go as far as to say that the referee was biased, but he was definitely lenient (although he did, to be fair, award England two penalties).
So many fans seem to be like fickle goldfish - we were hailing Southgate as a hero after the Euros final, he was the worst manager we've ever had after the USA draw, then suddenly he was the best manager in the world after the Senegal game, and now people are calling for his head and would be saying his reign is the worst seen since Alan Durban's spell at Cardiff between 1984 and 1986 if they could remember anything before last Thursday.
He's been the manager for six years, so maybe he is going a touch stale in his post. But football should not be (as it increasingly seems to be) governed by knee-jerk decisions based on one result that actually wasn't that bad.
One loss is not the end of the world. We may not have got as far as we might have liked, but we have proved that we can give better teams a game, and on another day we could have won that match considerably.
We can dust ourselves down, dry our eyes, and move on. Next stop: Germany, in 18 months' time.
Come on England!

 

[Edsmith]

We lost narrowly to the current World Champions. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Exactly, the whole squad can hold their heads high.

 

[Herefordian]

This is even more laughable, you obviously want women pundits as some sort of box ticking exercise. How about they stick to the women's game and male pundits stick to the men's game? It's not sexist it's just common sense.

Your attempts to try and justify your views are laughable.

I want pundits who are worth listening to. Male or female. Doesn't bother me.

You wanting female pundits to stick to womens' football isn't "common sense". It is sexist.

If female pundits commenting on mens' sport bothers you so much, then I'd suggest writing a letter to your MP.

https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP

 

[AlterEgo]

What level have Sam Matterface or Jonathan Pearce played at?

They’re calling the game, not providing punditry. They have a “professional” alongside them to provide technical analysis as well as the view of the professional.

Nothing wrong with women commentators or pundits as long as they’re not there to speak about their experiences as professionals *to relate it to the men’s game*. The same applies with the women’s game. Gary Neville etc have no business telling anyone what it’s like to be a woman professional footballer. The games are so different no value can be provided.

 

[DarloRich]

Who would you have replace him?

that isn't the point. The point is that Like Grealish previously Maddison will be the tool used to bash Southgate. I don't want Southgate out.

 

[D6968]

that isn't the point. The point is that Like Grealish previously Maddison will be the tool used to bash Southgate. I don't want Southgate out.

Why have you said Southgate out though?

 

[GS250]

Southgate is the man who's turned us from a shambles into a very respectable team. However...I think he's the classic nice guy nearly man type. Cannot see us ever winning a tournament with him in charge though. Just doesn't have that ruthless streak or ability to actually go the full distance.

 

[DarloRich]

Why have you said Southgate out though?

it is called humour. i know that is wasted on this board.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Southgate is the man who's turned us from a shambles into a very respectable team. However...I think he's the classic nice guy nearly man type. Cannot see us ever winning a tournament with him in charge though. Just doesn't have that ruthless streak or ability to actually go the full distance.

I agree 100% with your assessment. I don't think he has either the tactical know how or the motivational skills to take England to the next level.

 

[D6968]

it is called humour. i know that is wasted on this board.

It’s fair enough, I appreciate you can’t put tone or in inflection into text but you didn’t come across as trying to be humorous though.

 

[rapmastaj]

Nothing wrong with a bit of humour, but Southgate is easily the best manager England have had in the last 20 years. He's created a genuine team spirit and belief and brought more tournament success than we've had for decades, a world away from the era of WAGs and divas. Against the world champions, England were a credible threat. Sacking him now would be madness.

 

[D6968]

I agree 100% with your assessment. I don't think he has either the tactical know how or the motivational skills to take England to the next level.

And you think the likes of Capello, Erickson and McLaren did?

 

[Peterthegreat]

And you think the likes of Capello, Erickson and McLaren did?

Did I say that anywhere?

 

[D6968]

Did I say that anywhere?

I didn’t say you did.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I didn’t say you did.

So why mention it?
And for what is worth I don't. However we are talking about Southgate not anyone else.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

At least Southgate will be able to commiserate properly with Kane over missing a crucial penalty in a major competition. Do Pizza Hut need a new advert?

Hopefully Southgate's own experience will make him the best guy to help Kane deal with the aftermath of the miss. Hopefully he's also told him "whatever you do, DO NOT lean into the miss by doing a crass advert for a sub-par pizza chain!"

In some people's minds, he will always be "Adolf" Southgate after what occurred in a certain match against Germany quite some years ago now.

I can't recall anyone ever calling him by that particular epithet. Though I do remember the David Beckham effigies burned after France 1998. There's always been an unpleasant minority of England fans who go a bit far with their reaction to a defeat and look for a scapegoat... the difference is that now they only have to pick up their smartphone to vent. A bit easier than stuffing a load of straw into some old jeans and an expensive replica shirt!

 

[GS250]

And you think the likes of Capello, Erickson and McLaren did?

Our previous choices of manager indeed were poor. Hodgson too. They are pretty bad baselines of which to compare Southgate to though.

Sven: Did okay overall. Rescued our 2002 campaign, 3 quarter finals with 2 penalty defeats. Was always suggested that he never got the best out of the 'golden generation'. However there was another part of me that believes the who GG was a bit of a myth anyway. Excellent club players who ultimately let subsequent managers and their country down when it really mattered. I'm talking Gerrard, Terry, Lampard, Rooney especially here.

McLaren: Poor. Joke appointment. The GG may have been over rated but they were qualifying material every time. He didn't even do that.

Capello: Inherited the GG although some were stating to age or build up a reputation for not delivering. Right man but the wrong era. International football had moved on from his approach to the game.

Hodgson: Laughable that he got three tournaments. Ok, so he inherited an ageing and discredited set of players who were heroes with their clubs but had let their country down when it mattered. He also had a generally poor pool of younger players to pick from. Wellbeck, Sturridge, Carroll etc. However, totally failed to eject the lumbering has been Rooney and then had that defeat against Iceland. And this after his pathetic attempts in the 2014 World Cup and countless narrow borefest wins against the minnows.

So yes, Southgate generally a decent step up but he's also had a more commited and down to earth bunch of players to manage. Compared to the toxic, poorly behaved culture that ran through the GG.

But I'd stand by my line that we can forget winning anything under him. Just doesn't have that x factor about him.

 

[htafc]

But I'd stand by my line that we can forget winning anything under him. Just doesn't have that x factor about him.

Respectfully, I disagree.
I said the day after the Euro 2020 (2021) final that I thought England would win a major tournament with this generation of players, and stand by that. They will have reach their prime by Euro 2024 and the World Cup of 2026.
Southgate should stay.


HTAFC

 

[Peterthegreat]

Our previous choices of manager indeed were poor. Hodgson too. They are pretty bad baselines of which to compare Southgate to though.

Sven: Did okay overall. Rescued our 2002 campaign, 3 quarter finals with 2 penalty defeats. Was always suggested that he never got the best out of the 'golden generation'. However there was another part of me that believes the who GG was a bit of a myth anyway. Excellent club players who ultimately let subsequent managers and their country down when it really mattered. I'm talking Gerrard, Terry, Lampard, Rooney especially here.

McLaren: Poor. Joke appointment. The GG may have been over rated but they were qualifying material every time. He didn't even do that.

Capello: Inherited the GG although some were stating to age or build up a reputation for not delivering. Right man but the wrong era. International football had moved on from his approach to the game.

Hodgson: Laughable that he got three tournaments. Ok, so he inherited an ageing and discredited set of players who were heroes with their clubs but had let their country down when it mattered. He also had a generally poor pool of younger players to pick from. Wellbeck, Sturridge, Carroll etc. However, totally failed to eject the lumbering has been Rooney and then had that defeat against Iceland. And this after his pathetic attempts in the 2014 World Cup and countless narrow borefest wins against the minnows.

So yes, Southgate generally a decent step up but he's also had a more commited and down to earth bunch of players to manage. Compared to the toxic, poorly behaved culture that ran through the GG.

But I'd stand by my line that we can forget winning anything under him. Just doesn't have that x factor about him.

Once again I find myself agreeing with you 100%.

 

[Edsmith]

Nothing wrong with a bit of humour, but Southgate is easily the best manager England have had in the last 20 years. He's created a genuine team spirit and belief and brought more tournament success than we've had for decades, a world away from the era of WAGs and divas. Against the world champions, England were a credible threat. Sacking him now would be madness.

I agree completely, Gareth Southgate has done a great job and I hope he stays until the Euro's in 2024 at least.

 

[GS250]

Respectfully, I disagree.
I said the day after the Euro 2020 (2021) final that I thought England would win a major tournament with this generation of players, and stand by that. They will have reach their prime by Euro 2024 and the World Cup of 2026.
Southgate should stay.


HTAFC

I hope you are right. Will be happy to put my hand up if so.

I've never believed this whole 'in x amount of years we will peak' line. I've digested those sorts of statements as a distraction to take people's minds away from current failings. In football it's all about now. Ask Denmark and Greece, both of who have won more than England in the modern era. Both turned up to tournaments with little form or hope but won them. Canny management, players walking the walk when the pressure was on. This World Cup should have been OUR time but we just couldn't show that winning nous. Again. By 2024/26 some of our younger players may have flattered to deceive. Injuries to key players may hamper us. We don't know what's coming. 2018's meek exit or our failure to beat Italy in 2020 was met with an understanding that we will be far better next time around. Yet we've actually regressed achievement wise.

It's about doing it now. I'm convinced had Rooney stayed fit in 2004 we'd have won the Euros. He was only 18 but this was the peak of his England career. Bad luck robbed us of a brilliant young player. But that's just how it goes at times. Had he not let us all down and stayed on the pitch v Portugal (again) in 2006 I think we'd have reached the semi final at least. In spite of other players of that era not performing in major tournaments...I think he was the one man who could have been the difference. Sadly, after this he was nothing like the same player.

 

[rapmastaj]

So yes, Southgate generally a decent step up but he's also had a more commited and down to earth bunch of players to manage. Compared to the toxic, poorly behaved culture that ran through the GG.

Yes, the change in culture is hugely important. That will be partly down to the players themselves, but I think Southgate's understanding and coaching style is also a big factor in this change of attitude.

 

[Cloud Strife]

It's the big-headedness and arrogance of Ronaldo that means Messi gets the "GOAT" tag ahead of him in my book.

Ronaldo is a highlight reel, Messi is a winner. That's the big difference beween the two.

IMO, Ronaldo is just struggling immensely with the realisation that there's nothing he can do to keep playing at the very highest level. Ibrahimović was able to accept this and prosper in a specific role for AC Milan, but Ronaldo appears to think that he can still play a full 90 minutes.

 

[150249]

IMO Ronaldo is a ****


Use your imagination to fill in that gap

 

[Purple Train]

Respectfully, I disagree.
I said the day after the Euro 2020 (2021) final that I thought England would win a major tournament with this generation of players, and stand by that. They will have reached their prime by Euro 2024 and the World Cup of 2026.
Southgate should stay.


HTAFC

Agreed. I think Southgate knows some of the current crop of players from his time with the England youth teams, is that correct?

 

[birchesgreen]

Ronaldo is a highlight reel, Messi is a winner. That's the big difference beween the two.

IMO, Ronaldo is just struggling immensely with the realisation that there's nothing he can do to keep playing at the very highest level. Ibrahimović was able to accept this and prosper in a specific role for AC Milan, but Ronaldo appears to think that he can still play a full 90 minutes.

To be fair to the big head he has adapted his role very successfully a number of times over the last few years but i think time has finally caught up on him now.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I heard it jokingly said last week that Messi looked old enough to be Ronaldo's dad.

 

[birchesgreen]

I heard it jokingly said last week that Messi looked old enough to be Ronaldo's dad.

Was the person who made the joke on their way to Specsavers?

 

[JamesT]

To be fair to the big head he has adapted his role very successfully a number of times over the last few years but i think time has finally caught up on him now.

I wonder how much of it is that Ronaldo’s game has been based around strength and fitness, whereas Messi has more been about “talent”? Messi can still do most of his things at relative walking pace, whereas Ronaldo can’t. (Not saying Ronaldo isn’t talented, but he’s worked hard to improve himself)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was the person who made the joke on their way to Specsavers?

I think what he meant was the current unshaven look of Messi makes him look far older than he is.